Let's Get Cracking!! (Inductors)

MrAl

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Let\'s Get Cracking!! (Inductors)

Hello again,

As the subject title suggests,
I decided to put one of my ideas for building inductors to the test.
Since different kinds of toroid cores are found in the surplus market
at prices almost ten times less than a single 'store-bought' inductor,
wouldnt it be nice to be able to use one in a dc converter configuration?
This is especially true if you already have some cores laying around
not being used for anything.
Unfortunately, dc to dc converters often have to run with relatively
high dc current and small toroid cores with high permeability saturate
quite easily, meaning the toroid cores, as is, wont work. Sure, there's
bound to be a larger toroid out there that will work at the required
dc current but even on the surplus market the larger cores are usually
more money, and, after all, why would we want to use a big clunky
core if we can get away with using a smaller, more compact core?
Power supply engineers have been doing this very thing for decades
(although using toroids is still a relatively new technology when
compared to E cores and the like) by inserting a small air gap
in the magnetic path of the core. The small air gap makes the core
look much bigger than it really is, and so fools it into working
with higher dc current, even though the size doesnt change much.

There's a bit of a problem, however, that must be overcome when
using run of the mill surplus toroid cores. That is, in order to
get a precision gap cut into the tough, brittle material that the
toroid is made of you'll need to purchase a diamond tooth cutting
machine that can cut gaps as small as 0.005 inches into cores made
from materials as hard as ceramic. Im sure the purchase price is
well within anyone's budget, he he. But if you're working with
a low budget like i am, you dont have $50,000 to shell out just
to make one 0.005 inch cut in a toroid core costing 25 cents just
so you can save three dollars from not having to buy a ready made
inductor.

Ok, so we have a problem -- we have a small toroid core that doesnt
have an air gap, and we'd like to add a small air gap so we can use
it with a converter that carries significant dc current.
Machines that will cut a gap into such cores are very expensive, so
we need an alternate strategy to get a small air gap into the core.
Here's where it gets interesting...

If the core is wrapped in a soft white cloth or white paper napkin
and placed into a vise, gentle but firm pressure will cause the
toroid to crack into four approximately equally sized pieces.
The core, when glued back together, exibits all the properties of
a core with a small air gap, because now it has four tiny air
gaps which make the core much more useful in dc applications.

The only problem remaining then is what kind of glue to use.
Since the gap has to be very small in most cases when the core
is small (maybe 0.5 inch OD) Super Glue is the first that comes to
mind. When the glue is applied and the core is reassembled the
thin layer looks like it's around 0.002 to 0.003 inches wide,
which is just about right. Since there will be four such gaps
in a core with four separate pieces, the total gap length in
the core will be about 0.008 to 0.012 inches. This works out
pretty well when the core has to carry dc current. The
down side to using Super Glue is that the useful temperature
range probably goes down quite a bit, although i havent found
any real data on the max temperature of cured Super Glue yet.
For anyone disliking this drawback, i've found a glue called
"PC11" which is like a thick epoxy which wont drip. This glue
works up to about 90 deg C when cured. The only drawback to
using this glue is that the gap may come out somewhat larger
than with the Super Glue, because more material will be inside
the gap once the core is glued back together. Also, this
glue takes at least 12 hours to cure, meaning turnaround time
for constructing a core will be much longer than with Super
Glue, which takes about 1 minute or so to harden.

Ok, so now that we have a method that allows us to gap small
toroid cores, what exactly are the effects on the properties of
the resulting inductor? Do we really get something more useful?
Some tabular data is in order here, in order to compare properties.

The most important properties are:
1. The resulting inductance
2. The max dc handling capability

so these properties are shown here for cores made from two types
of materials: one made from high perm (mu) material and the other from
much lower perm material.

The format for the tables below is:
The header "mu= " shows the permeability for that core, and
the first entry is the gap length in inches (stepped every 0.002 inches),
the second entry is the inductance in Henries,
the last entry is the maximum dc current handling capability at
Bdc=2500 gausses.
For example, for the material with mu=8030 and a gap of 0.002 inches
the inductance is 234uH and the max dc current is 0.418 amps.

mu=8030
0.000 0.003267 0.030
0.002 0.000234 0.418
0.004 0.000121 0.805
0.006 0.000082 1.193
0.008 0.000062 1.581
0.010 0.000050 1.968
0.012 0.000041 2.356
0.014 0.000036 2.744
0.016 0.000031 3.131
0.018 0.000028 3.519
0.020 0.000025 3.907

mu=830
0.000 0.000338 0.289
0.002 0.000144 0.676
0.004 0.000092 1.064
0.006 0.000067 1.452
0.008 0.000053 1.839
0.010 0.000044 2.227
0.012 0.000037 2.615
0.014 0.000032 3.002
0.016 0.000029 3.390
0.018 0.000026 3.778
0.020 0.000023 4.165


From simple inspection of the two tables above, we can see some
very interesting properties about cores with and without gaps...

1. Notice how the high mu material (8030) with no gap can only
handle 30 milliamps dc current? Gee, not very useful.
As the gap goes up, so does the dc current handling ability.
This is basically because the gap makes the core look like it has
a longer magnetic path, and a longer magnetic path means the
core can handle higher dc currents.

2. For two cores of equal size, one with high perm and one with
low perm, the high perm core has higher inductance. This can be
found by looking at the two cores with 0.000 gap length (no gaps).

3. As the gap is increased in both cores, the inductance becomes
very much the same even though the perm of each core is very different.
Looking at the inductance for the two cores with gaps of 0.020 inches
one has L=25uH and the other has L=23uH. Thus, the inductance is
almost the same for both cores. This means the gap begins to take
over control of the inductance level, not the permability of the
core! This is a very useful property indeed, because surplus cores
from the same batch might have perm's that vary as much as 2:1 even
though they are binned the same. Without a gap, this could change
the inductance by a factor of 2 in either direction. With a gap
this variation is almost eliminated.

4. As the gap is increased in either core, the inductance goes
down but the dc current handling capability goes up. This is
very useful when the core has to handle high dc current such
as in a dc converter used for flashlights or battery chargers.
The drawback is that we have to add turns to get back to a
useable inductance value, but in the long run we end up with
a smaller inductor.


THE BASIC IDEAS BEHIND USING A GAP

We want the core to handle dc current so we insert a gap,
because the gap allows us to use higher dc current. Because doing
this lowers the inductance quite a bit, we must add more turns to
get the inductance back up to something suitable for the application.
The reqired additional turns might mean winding three times the
original number of turns on the core, but the resulting inductor
will be much more useful even with a somewhat higher dc resistance
because it will actually work in an application where it couldnt
before the gap was introduced, and we end up with a smaller inductor
as well which takes up less board space.



NEXT TIME:
A real life example using National Semiconductor's 52kHz Simple Switcher
and a very small toroid core.



Take care,
Al
 

vicbin

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Re: Let\'s Get Cracking!! (Inductors)

Hi there Al,

Wow, cool thread !

Can I join this 'cracking" or slaughtering ferrite cores games, please ? he..he.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
P1000825.jpg


I'll be back for this thread soon.

Vic
 

Lynx_Arc

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Re: Let\'s Get Cracking!! (Inductors)

Looks like it is getting gorey.... I mean corey here.
 

koala

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Re: Let\'s Get Cracking!! (Inductors)

Wow lotsa info there... I am thinking how am I going to do this with my 5mm OD core /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif.

Has anyone here seen this type of four pieces glued core in real production? MrAl are you applying a patent for it? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif.

Oh Oh btw, I have seen some cores that have double/tripple parallel winding instead of a piece of thick wire. What is the effect of this? Increase current & lower resistance?

-vince.
 

Lynx_Arc

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Re: Let\'s Get Cracking!! (Inductors)

what would be interesting to do is make a core out of flexible material wrap wire around it and bend it around in a donut shape or whatever and glue the ends together.
 

MrAl

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Messages
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Re: Let\'s Get Cracking!! (Inductors)

Hello again,

Vic:
Yes, sure, thanks for joining in!
I see you have all the materials for core crackin' /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Have you tried using the grinder to cut one in half?

Vince:
Yeah, quite a bit to cover i guess :)
It might be harder with the very small 5mm core but should
still work if you can work with small things like that.
I dont know if anyone would want to use this technique in
production because if you're going to do many pieces it may
be easier just to order cores with gaps already cut in them.
You can specify the size of the gap so you get what you want.
This method is best when you find low cost cores that dont
have gaps yet but you'd like to insert a gap.
Double/Triple wire windings are used to help reduce the
ac resistance (not reactance) of a coil which raises efficiency,
and sometimes to keep leakage flux from inducing unwanted currents
back into the windings which also helps efficiency with some
constructions.

Lynx:
I'd like to try that but we'd have to find some material
that bends and still works well as an inductor core.


I hope this technique turns out to be useful to you guys at
some point.

Take care,
Al
 

CNC Dan

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Re: Let\'s Get Cracking!! (Inductors)

[ QUOTE ]
MrAl said:Power supply engineers have been doing this very thing for decades
(although using toroids is still a relatively new technology when
compared to E cores and the like) by inserting a small air gap
in the magnetic path of the core.
Take care,
Al

[/ QUOTE ]

What would happen if you only cut the gap part way through?

Could a .010 gap that goes only half way through the core be the
same as a gap of .005 that goes all the way through?

Dan
 

koala

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Re: Let\'s Get Cracking!! (Inductors)

I have the cutting wheel that looks like Vic's it came with my dremel. It works perfectly and heats up the core very fast, have to stop frequently to cool down the core. Downside is the cutting wheel produce very fine ferrous powder, can be hard to our lungs?

vince.
 

CNC Dan

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boston area
Re: Let\'s Get Cracking!! (Inductors)

[ QUOTE ]
koala said:
I have the cutting wheel that looks like Vic's it came with my dremel. It works perfectly and heats up the core very fast, have to stop frequently to cool down the core. Downside is the cutting wheel produce very fine ferrous powder, can be hard to our lungs?

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably. Best to use a dust mask. I would sugjest using a vacuume cleaner to remove the dust as it is being made.
 

Lynx_Arc

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Re: Let\'s Get Cracking!! (Inductors)

Gonna have to find some flexible expoxy and grind up some core dust to mix with it to see if it works.

As for the heating problem when grinding... use a face shield and wet grind it like they do with glass, it keeps dust down and heat too.
 

MrAl

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Re: Let\'s Get Cracking!! (Inductors)

Hi again,

CNC Dan:
With a gap only cut half way through the core (from the outside in)
I think the thing would behave like it's got two cores instead of one.
The first core (no gap) would have half the inductance from
what the whole core had with no gap and would
still saturate at a pretty low current, then the other (gapped)
core would kick in and it's inductance also would be half what it
would be with the gap all the way through.
The performance would be somewhat high inductance for low currents
and as the current increased the inductance would fall sharply to
the lower level set by the part of the core with the gap, then
finally the thing would saturate completely at some higher current
level. This would be interesting i guess if you needed an inductor
with relatively high inductance at low current and relatively
low inductance at high current but without saturating, so i guess
you could say it would be a swinging choke with wildly different
values. Hmmm, this might be useful in a circuit that has to
self oscillate where the inductance fall is enough to cause output
voltage to drop significantly but with better control over the
current compared to saturating core oscillators. Circuit that
comes to mind is the so-called "Sat Core" circuit, where the
circuit self oscillates and provides a boost output for driving
white LED's. I guess this would have to be tried though.

I guess the problem with me trying this is that i cant cut a gap
as narrow as 0.010 inches. I think the narrowest gap i can cut
would be the thickness of a Dremel cut off wheel -- probably 1mm
which is about 0.04 inches -- unless you have any better ideas?


Vince:
That's another good question...i wonder if the particles are the right
size to damage lungs...I dont know but i'd keep a mask on and make
sure the particles fly away from my face.

Lynx:
Actually that's how some cores are made. The pieces are pressed together
and the amount of pressure influences the mu of the core.
I have a feeling that if you do this yourself without pressure the mu
will be extremely low, if that's what you want. Could be useful in RF work.



Some very good ideas! Keep 'em comming if you get more!
I'd like to try them myself.

Take care,
Al
 

MrAl

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Re: Let\'s Get Cracking!! (Inductors)

Hi again,

Here's the real life data i was talking about.

The tests were performed on a core used for an inductor
before and after cracking. The inductor's value is measured
before and after cracking, and after winding more turns on the core.
The inductor is also tried in a buck switching power supply configuration
and the resulting effect on output ripple voltage is measured.
The calculations for the core with 10 turns and 30 turns is examined
in order to get a feel for how the core should work with these different
turns and with no gap, and what effect adding the gap should have.


The core description:
12.5mm x 7.5mm x 6mm, Mu=831

The winding:
10 turns of #24 wire to start with.

The characteristics of the core are measured before and after cracking.
After cracking the core is glued back together with Super Glue.


OUT OF CIRCUIT TESTING

Before cracking, the inductor measures 50uH.

After cracking, first two of the four pieces are glued back together.
This forms two halves. Winding 10 turns around only 1/2 of the core
results in 2.5uH of inductance. Adding the second half by holding it
tightly in place (again forming a full core) increases the inductance
to 8.75uH.

After gluing the second half to the first half and again winding 10 turns,
the measured inductance was 6.25uH, indicating the glue itself increases
the gap length because the inductance went down from 8.75uH to 6.25uH.

Winding 30 turns of #24 wire on the glued core measured
50uH inductance. Thus, it took 3 times as many turns to get back
to the same inductance value as before the core was cracked.
The new inductor will have three times the resistance of the original.
If this increase in resistance turned out to be a problem, heavier
wire would have to be used.


IN CIRCUIT TESTING (Using National's 52kHz Simple Switcher LM2576)

First, tests before the core was cracked (10 turns=50uH)...

(note: mvpp is read "millivolts peak to peak")

At 50ma out Vripple=50mvpp
At 500ma dc output Vripple=200mvpp
The ripple voltage increases significantly at only 0.5 amp out.
Attemps to increase the 500ma to 1 amp resulted in very bad saturation.

Now after the core was cracked, then glued back together, then
30 turns wound on the core...

With 50ma out, Vripple=20mv
With 500ma out, Vripple=40mv
With 1 amp out, Vripple=40mv
With 1.5 amps out, Vripple=40mv

Thus, with the cracked core reglued and with turns added the core handles
at least three times the dc current. I was unable to increase current
further as the power supply wall wart used couldnt handle 2 amps. I hope
to improve on this by using a huge 12v SLA battery in the future.


Looking at some of the calculations for the core with 10 turns and
again with 30 turns...


The tables below are arranged with the gap (inches) first, then
the inductance (Henries), then the maximum Idc (amps) in each
line...


Core with 10 turns:

gap L IdcMax

0.000000 0.000049959 0.600497
0.002000 0.000021324 1.406846
0.004000 0.000013555 2.213196
0.006000 0.000009935 3.019545
0.008000 0.000007841 3.825894
0.010000 0.000006476 4.632243
0.012000 0.000005516 5.438592
0.014000 0.000004804 6.244942



Core with 30 turns:

gap L IdcMax

0.000000 0.000449627 0.200166
0.002000 0.000191919 0.468949
0.004000 0.000121996 0.737732
0.006000 0.000089417 1.006515
0.008000 0.000070572 1.275298
0.010000 0.000058287 1.544081
0.012000 0.000049645 1.812864
0.014000 0.000043235 2.081647




Looking at the non-cracked core with 10 turns (no gap), it should
handle 0.6 amps before saturating. I was shooting for a min of
1.5 amps so this is too low.

After cracking the core and gluing back together, the total gap
(sum of the four individual gaps) came out to approximately 0.012
inches in length. Looking at the core with 30 turns, an inductance
of about 50uH is achieved with a gap of 0.012 inches and it can
handle a little more than 1.5 amps dc. So far the testing shows
this to be true up to 1.5 amps but the larger power supply will
have to be used to test all the way up to say 2 amps.
With the increased number of turns the winding takes a little over
a meter of wire, which comes out to about 0.09 ohms. At 5 volts
output at 1.5 amps this would reduce efficiency about 3 percent.
For the application of a bench power supply, this certainly isnt
a problem.


CONCLUSION

The small core as is couldnt handle the required dc current, so
the core was cracked and glued back together. Super Glue was used
so as to provide the smallest possible gaps between core sections.
The total gap length came out to be about 0.010 to 0.012
inches, which is somewhat large for a small core, and causes
the inductance to drop significantly. To bring the inductance
back up to the minimum that was required for the application,
20 turns had to be added for a total of 30 turns. This increased
the effective dc resistance of the inductor but allowed the core
to be used at a much higher dc level. This proves that cracking
the core does work.
 

MrAl

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Messages
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Location
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Re: Let\'s Get Cracking!! (Inductors)

Quick update:

Today i found a neat new tool at Home Depot.
It's a diamond grit cut off wheel made for the Dremel tool.
I came home and tried it out and found the gap is a bit
big, but it cuts through the core like butter!
Actually, i made a cut through one side in about 5 seconds.

The wheel is a little too thick (0.020 inches) and makes
a cut about 0.030 inches so that's no good for my
application with the 0.5 inch OD cores, but with slightly
larger cores (like maybe 1 inch OD) it might be just right
for making high dc carrying chokes.

Cant believe i found something that actually works so
good i can rave about it! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Im sure this tool will be very good for other cutting
jobs too, and even sharpening and grinding.
Maybe there's another forum on CP where this would be
good to post...

Take care,
Al

P.S. Thanks Dremel!
 

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