NiMH or NiMH LSD AAAs for my use case (bicycle commuting)

[Bster13]

Hello Everyone,

Lurker here trying to figure out the best type of NiMH for my bicycle commute.

I already have an 18650, single cell torch (C8 XM-L Ultrafire clone: http://www.ebay.com/itm/32094759181...X:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649#ht_2281wt_1163) for the front of my bicycle and appreciate the guidance on reusing laptop batteries for that purpose. I also have two Xtar WP2 chargers in the mail for work and office (some report this C8 XML torch can pull 3a, some reporting it is regulated to 1.8a, who the heck knows what I'll actually get so it may need recharging for the ride home <1/2 hour each way>), again many thanks.

Where I am stuck is in outfitting the flashing red lights on the back of the bicycle (it's all about being visible). I have two of them, each taking 2 x AAA, each drawing 1/2 watt.

Do I want regular NiMH (higher capacity) or LSD NiMH (slower discharge rate)?

My commute is 1/2 hour one way, twice a day, M-F. I'll be running the flashing lights the entire time, hopefully buying 6 x NiMH batteries (2 x NiMH AAAs for each blinking 1/2w light, one spare set)

I won't be riding in the winter, but definitely 3 season and pushing it into the winter provided there is no snow/ice. So the batteries will sit for a few months.

Do I want the cheaper/higher capacity regular NiMHs or the LSD ones? With this much down time, I'd have to recharge both types of batteries during the winter every once in awhile anyway, right?

Also, I've read a lot of reviews of Li-Ion chargers, is there a recommended bang-for buck NiMH charger or are they much more simple and just get one you can get a good deal on?

Many thanks!

 

[Empire]

Personally... I'd run regulars.
Although I GUARANTEE most will disagree with me.

 

[Bster13]

Personally... I'd run regulars.
Although I GUARANTEE most will disagree with me.

Well currently voting is 50/50, haha...could you tell me why others will lean the other way? Why would regulars suit you? (I'm an engineer....I gotta know. ) Thanks!

 

[Empire]

Well currently voting is 50/50, haha...could you tell me why others will lean the other way? Why would regulars suit you? (I'm an engineer....I gotta know. ) Thanks!

I don't know and I don't know
i just like to participate in these things, Doesnt mean I need a reason

 

[gravelmonkey]

I ran a very similar back set-up to you, using cheap NiMh's and giving them a quick cook on a cheap charger every once in a while when they looked like they were getting a bit dim and I kept a spare set of lithium AAA's in a zip-lock bag stashed in my saddlebag for back-up.

Now, I was doing this all on the cheap, if I'd had the funds at the time, I would have used a decent charger and slightly less cheap NiMh's- I managed to lose 4 rear lights in the space of a year and a half, although only 1 was stolen, I didn't want to shell out for eneloops and have them nicked by some thieving hooligan!

GM

 

[Bster13]

I ran a very similar back set-up to you, using cheap NiMh's and giving them a quick cook on a cheap charger every once in a while when they looked like they were getting a bit dim and I kept a spare set of lithium AAA's in a zip-lock bag stashed in my saddlebag for back-up.

Now, I was doing this all on the cheap, if I'd had the funds at the time, I would have used a decent charger and slightly less cheap NiMh's- I managed to lose 4 rear lights in the space of a year and a half, although only 1 was stolen, I didn't want to shell out for eneloops and have them nicked by some thieving hooligan!

GM

I'm lucky to be able to bring my bike into my office, so less worry about people stealing them. I guess since you were using the regular NiMHs on a regular basis you didn't see the need to go for LSDs, correct?

 

[Bster13]

Hrmm, I read this thread:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...7-Do-non-LSD-NiMH-cells-wear-out-more-quickly

Looks like LSDs might be more suitable if I am not on the ball with refreshing the batteries every so often in the Winter and they may last longer than high capacity regular NiMHs...thoughts?

 

[Empire]

The only way you can be 100% sure is if you tested them yourself
just buy both and test them out..

 

[hbr]

Where I am stuck is in outfitting the flashing red lights on the back of the bicycle (it's all about being visible). I have two of them, each taking 2 x AAA, each drawing 1/2 watt.

Do I want regular NiMH (higher capacity) or LSD NiMH (slower discharge rate)?

Either type should work fine.

So the batteries will sit for a few months.

In that case, I would use the LSD NiMH. I use them for the rear light on my bike. I charge them once a month.

I get good results from these:
http://www.mysupermarket.co.uk/#/as...ving_aaa_850mah_rechargeable_batteries_4.html

If you aren't in the UK or Ireland, any of the usual premium brands should be at least as good.
Sanyo Eneloop, Panasonic, GP.....

 

[Lucciola]

For daily commuting? Forget about cells, get yourself a front wheel with hub dynamo, a modern LED headlight and taillight and have relyable and bright lighting all the time. Since I bougt my first bike with hub dynamo I never wanted anything else again. It's like a car. Plenty of light without significant rolling resistance whenever you need it. No cells to charge, no bulbs to replace, no mud or snow building up on the dynomo roller. If you really want to use it every day that's the way to go.

My recommendations?

Budget:
Headlight: Trelock LS 692
Taillight: Trelock LS 813
Hub dynamo: Wheel with Shimano DH-3N30
Total costs: Should be under 100 bucks, completely installed.

Mid range:
Headlight: BUMM IQ Cyo T
Taillight: BUMM Toplight Flat
Hub dynamo: Wheel with Shimano DH-3N80 or the new DH-T780
Total costs: C'mon, you use it every day!

Top end:
Headlight: SON Edelux
Taillight: BUMM Toplight Line Plus
Hub dynamo: SON Delux
Total costs: Censored, so your wife doesn't find out.

In the meantime I have two bikes equiped with the last option and I use my bikes for personal transport, no matter whether it's rain or shine, night or day, without ever having my light fail.

Lucciola

 

[gravelmonkey]

I'm lucky to be able to bring my bike into my office, so less worry about people stealing them. I guess since you were using the regular NiMHs on a regular basis you didn't see the need to go for LSDs, correct?

Yeh, and I was a cheapskate! UK based, I was riding all year round so the batteries were charged fairly regularly.

Re. your other questions- Laptop 18650 cells: Neither the cell you'll be using or the light is protected- Over-discharging li-ions will shorten their lifespan and charging over-discharged cells can be catastrophic. There is a lot of good safety info here at CPF, give it a good read!

Regarding NiMh chargers, you'll want to look for chargers that can charge cells individually, a lot of them charge cells in pairs- often over-charging one and/or undercharging the other. My 'budget-commuting' days are over since I moved abroad and I now use a Technoline BL-700 (?) for eneloops in my AA powered lights as I'm often in remote locations and need maximum rechargeable performance!

Hope some of that's useful to you!

GM

 

[Bster13]

For daily commuting? Forget about cells, get yourself a front wheel with hub dynamo, a modern LED headlight and taillight and have relyable and bright lighting all the time. Since I bougt my first bike with hub dynamo I never wanted anything else again. It's like a car. Plenty of light without significant rolling resistance whenever you need it. No cells to charge, no bulbs to replace, no mud or snow building up on the dynomo roller. If you really want to use it every day that's the way to go.

My recommendations?

Budget:
Headlight: Trelock LS 692
Taillight: Trelock LS 813
Hub dynamo: Wheel with Shimano DH-3N30
Total costs: Should be under 100 bucks, completely installed.

Mid range:
Headlight: BUMM IQ Cyo T
Taillight: BUMM Toplight Flat
Hub dynamo: Wheel with Shimano DH-3N80 or the new DH-T780
Total costs: C'mon, you use it every day!

Top end:
Headlight: SON Edelux
Taillight: BUMM Toplight Line Plus
Hub dynamo: SON Delux
Total costs: Censored, so your wife doesn't find out.

In the meantime I have two bikes equiped with the last option and I use my bikes for personal transport, no matter whether it's rain or shine, night or day, without ever having my light fail.

Lucciola

I only considered hubs for a short while as I understand they would involve a wheel needing to be rebuilt. I'm not familiar with this process or the cost. If this is something an avg. guy can do, I was misinformed. I also didn't want any additional drag on my pedaling as I'm already going to be huffing and puffing. Also the payback time for the $ invested in the bike and accessories would be longer.

 

[Bster13]

Yeh, and I was a cheapskate! UK based, I was riding all year round so the batteries were charged fairly regularly.

Re. your other questions- Laptop 18650 cells: Neither the cell you'll be using or the light is protected- Over-discharging li-ions will shorten their lifespan and charging over-discharged cells can be catastrophic. There is a lot of good safety info here at CPF, give it a good read!

Regarding NiMh chargers, you'll want to look for chargers that can charge cells individually, a lot of them charge cells in pairs- often over-charging one and/or undercharging the other. My 'budget-commuting' days are over since I moved abroad and I now use a Technoline BL-700 (?) for eneloops in my AA powered lights as I'm often in remote locations and need maximum rechargeable performance!

Hope some of that's useful to you!

GM

So perhaps I've just been wading in a sea of misinformation, but I thought depending on the protection circuit, it can have adverse effects on voltage output, and thus how many lumens a torch can put out. I know this is a very cheap light for the amount of light it puts out and if it does not have a protection circuit it can damage the cells....but what if I were to recharge the non-protected 18650s each time I got to work or returned home? I thought Li-Ion batts lasted longer if you didn't fully run them down anyway and by only using them for 1/2hr at a time and then recharging for each leg of the trip this would largely mitigate the potential problem, no?

 

[Bster13]

Not familiar with the lights Lucciola recommended, but here are some examples of the C8 XM-L in action...

In daylight:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ofZk-bDmb4&feature=channel&list=UL

At dusk:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZn0ikar0L4

At night:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnZ_oySJLNE

If I need to add two of them, that's a possibility as well. It'd cost me $26 plus $5 in holders to secure it to the handlebars. I thought this was a lot of light for my dollar, we'll see, hard to tell from the internet. I figured I could use the flashlight around the house if it does not suit my commuting needs.

For the rear I'll have 2 x Planet Bike super flash (Got a good deal, didn't go for the Turbo):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96AYhdwr4r4

 

[apagogeas]

Just my general experience with all sorts of NiMH batteries:

Cheap regular NiMH cons: Unreliable out of the box, much lower than stated capacity, lower operational voltage. Overall they are trouble for nothing so avoid at all costs.

Branded regular NiMH cons: cost more than any other battery at least in my place (even compared to LSD), capacity benefit fades in 1-2 years top, useful life up to 2-3 years with good care, they deteriorate much quicker than LSD, perform worse in cold, somehow lower operational voltage than LSD (in most cases).

Cheap/Low capacity LSD cons: Lower capacity to begin with.

High quality LSD cons: Lower capacity than regular ones. One favorite here eneloop (and perhaps the new panasonic Evolta NiMH) but also other brands will serve well.

AAA batteries are quite more fragile than AA, still LSD will offer better durability so for any usage I'd go with LSD, unless if the higher capacity is crucial and worthy to disregard all the other benefits of LSD but for your intended use I think you shouldn't worry of running times. If still in need for cheap batteries, I'd look for cheaper LSD alternatives, they are quite more robust in construction than regulars anyway. Regulars do not offer any benefit besides the initial higher capacity.

 

[gravelmonkey]

So perhaps I've just been wading in a sea of misinformation, but I thought depending on the protection circuit, it can have adverse effects on voltage output, and thus how many lumens a torch can put out. I know this is a very cheap light for the amount of light it puts out and if it does not have a protection circuit it can damage the cells....but what if I were to recharge the non-protected 18650s each time I got to work or returned home? I thought Li-Ion batts lasted longer if you didn't fully run them down anyway and by only using them for 1/2hr at a time and then recharging for each leg of the trip this would largely mitigate the potential problem, no?

Unless I'm very much mistaken (and someone will correct me if I am, no doubt!) all decent protected 18650's will be able to handle the (?)3A current you mentioned your light might draw. The circuit prevents overcharging/over-discharging and will protect against short circuits. The only downside is that the light will switch off without warning, once the battery is depleted (BUT it is to protect the cell so its a bit of a necessary evil in my eyes).

You're correct about not running the cells down to increase lifespan, I'm sure you will receive a plethora of responses from people more intelligent than me!

(Also- Despite the estimate for 1000 lumens being a bit exaggerated, what on EARTH do you need a gazillion lumens on your commuting bike for?!)

GM

 

[Bster13]

Unless I'm very much mistaken (and someone will correct me if I am, no doubt!) all decent protected 18650's will be able to handle the (?)3A current you mentioned your light might draw. The circuit prevents overcharging/over-discharging and will protect against short circuits. The only downside is that the light will switch off without warning, once the battery is depleted (BUT it is to protect the cell so its a bit of a necessary evil in my eyes).

You're correct about not running the cells down to increase lifespan, I'm sure you will receive a plethora of responses from people more intelligent than me!

(Also- Despite the estimate for 1000 lumens being a bit exaggerated, what on EARTH do you need a gazillion lumens on your commuting bike for?!)

GM

I guess need is relative..I estimate that light throws ~500 lumens, but all depends on if I happen to get one of them with regulate voltage draw or not. I guess I am of the school that more is better when I am on the bicycle. I will have it aimed properly so as not to blind others, but I definitely want people coming at me to slow down and think "What the?" for a second. Same goes for my rear, I want to blink my little buns off short of giving people behind me an epileptic seizure.

 

[Bster13]

Ok, I pulled the trigger, a sale at batteryjunction made me move quicker:

http://www.imageno.com/ccg7pbobqnwhpic.html

(the reason for two chargers is one at the office and one at home. The one at home has discharge ability and they both are smart chargers).

Thanks for everyone's help!

 

[127.0.0.1]

good call

I have a 8-bay Maha and aaa and aa eneloops and before every road ride I yank the batts
and rotate them with the charger. I sharpied my eneloops in pairs (put 1, 2 or 3 stripes on them)
and quads so I can keep them sorted by charged and used. make it easy to know that I am grabbing
freshies.

 

[Bster13]

good call

I have a 8-bay Maha and aaa and aa eneloops and before every road ride I yank the batts
and rotate them with the charger. I sharpied my eneloops in pairs (put 1, 2 or 3 stripes on them)
and quads so I can keep them sorted by charged and used. make it easy to know that I am grabbing
freshies.

Nice. I only ended up with 4 eneloops, but I think I'll be ok....I'll just use a set of alkalines in one of my rear lights first and eneloops in the other to start. That way the eneloops for my two, rear, blinking back lights will be offset in terms of when they need recharging. I'll lable mine as well with purchase date and #1 - 4, good idea.