P1D CE Problem

[patycake57]

I don't understand how the dealer can protect the consumer from manufacturing variances. Should the dealer should perform QC on every light, open each package up and test each light?

Also, it seems that returning a light because it doesn't work with 3.7's seems like it takes advantage of liberal return policies such as that offered by 4 7's. It was never advertised to provide all functions with 3.6V batteries in the first post that 4 7's made, and widely discussed on CPF. Loose threads is a different, and somewhat subjective, issue.

 

[EngrPaul]

Loose threads could be measured and compared to industry standards. I would bet large sums of money the P1D-CE would fail that spec.

However, industry standards do not necessarily apply because threading is typically used to fasten a device. Therefore, thread engagement (inner to outer) is more critical in such an app.

In this application, the threads could last until the flashlight dies for other reasons. My biggest concern is that the threads are only engaging by their crests. A little bit of wear and those crests could start wearing down and the threads start skipping.

Will this happen? Probably not, unless the user really cranks down to engage the light. Although I know of one customer who found theirs skipped right out of the box.

My biggest gripe with the loose threads is the wobbly head. The o-ring tends to cover this up to some extent. But when you engage the threads using one hand, the wobble in the threads translates into unintentional mode skipping. The wobble is created by the way in which your hand twists the threads to turn it on and off. When you use two hands, it's much easier to apply a twisting torque without skewing the axis of the head to the tail.

I tried taking the o-ring out to test the thread fit. The head would move up and down in the tail nearly one full thread pitch. Tilting the head relative to the tail caused the axis to skew significantly. Moving the head side to side in the tail revealed quite a bit of spacing between pitch diameters of the threads.

I compared this light to all other Fenix lights I own. This early P1D-CE I have is definitely out of the norm for what Fenix produces.

 

[naturelle]

Also, it seems that returning a light because it doesn't work with 3.7's seems like it takes advantage of liberal return policies such as that offered by 4 7's. It was never advertised to provide all functions with 3.6V batteries in the first post that 4 7's made, and widely discussed on CPF. Loose threads is a different, and somewhat subjective, issue.

Thats only one of the reasons. The other reasons (rings, loosen threads, andsoon...) you can read here in cpf.
And, in my opinion, it's a lousy and not "state-of-the-art" electrical design when I cannot use 3,7V RCR in an brand-new light while 3,7V-RCRs are well known a long time.

 

[TooManyGizmos]

.
EngrPaul said it all very well ... in post #22 .... about the threads .

Accurately described ............... well done .

................. TMG/*
~

 

[Closet_Flashaholic]

For instance, I would like to buy a P1D-CE myself, but I'm reluctant to get involved because of the quality issues. I'm sure other people feel the same way.

Yep, I'm waiting as well. I want 2 black ones, but I absolutely refuse to buy them until this issue is resolved. Even then, I will probably wait, to make sure there aren't any of the problem lights "in the pipeline". For $140 (for 2 lights), my expectation is that they have no known defects. I consider loose threads a defect.

Don't get me wrong, I think the dealers are supporting the product well (so far), but I don't like the hassles of returning things. Repackaging, getting to the shipper, etc. is something that I have grown to dislike a lot. It's a tremendous waste of my time when this happens.

 

[N162E]

And, in my opinion, it's a lousy and not "state-of-the-art" electrical design when I cannot use 3,7V RCR in an brand-new light while 3,7V-RCRs are well known a long time.

In my opinion you are a pretty lousey person to return to return a light because it won't do something it is not designed to do. IMHO Why don't you try that arguement on Sure Fire and see how they respond to you.

 

[N162E]

And, in my opinion, it's a lousy and not "state-of-the-art" electrical design when I cannot use 3,7V RCR in an brand-new light while 3,7V-RCRs are well known a long time.

Delete duplicate post

 

[N162E]

Don't get me wrong, I think the dealers are supporting the product well (so far), but I don't like the hassles of returning things. Repackaging, getting to the shipper, etc. is something that I have grown to dislike a lot. It's a tremendous waste of my time when this happens.

You are right. Its real tough to put it in an envelope and drop it in a mail box.

 

[TooManyGizmos]

~

Atitude ~ atitude ~ atitude ............. Omph

~

 

[patycake57]

And, in my opinion, it's a lousy and not "state-of-the-art" electrical design when I cannot use 3,7V RCR in an brand-new light while 3,7V-RCRs are well known a long time.

"Lousy" is not what comes to my mind. It sure sounds state of the art with multi-stage current regulation. Others with much more knowledge have commented on the extra circuitry and inefficiency required to accomodate both 3.0 and 3.7V batteries with this type of regulation. Of course, it could use PWM which would be easy to do with 3.0 and 3.7V RCR. Then people could complain about the flicker...

 

[naturelle]

In my opinion you are a pretty lousey person to return to return a light because it won't do something it is not designed to do. IMHO Why don't you try that arguement on Sure Fire and see how they respond to you.

:huh2:It's very good that your opinion and your scathe is not part of our customer-protection laws. It's normal that I can buy a thing and refund it if I cannot buy or test it in a local trade-shop. And when I buy something I can estimate that it will work with standard-technology. And 3,7V-RCRs are standard-technology.
And: it doesn't matter if I refund it in case of the lousy rings, the not-working RCRs or the loosen threads and the resulting problems when using it one-hand. It is designed to flash - without limitation. The light may be good for beginners, but Fenix is able to do a better job. They've proved this with the LxP, LxT or the P1. If you won't hear this - don't read this, and: do not scathe me!.
:thumbsdow

 

[naturelle]

"Lousy" is not what comes to my mind. It sure sounds state of the art with multi-stage current regulation. Others with much more knowledge have commented on the extra circuitry and inefficiency required to accomodate both 3.0 and 3.7V batteries with this type of regulation. Of course, it could use PWM which would be easy to do with 3.0 and 3.7V RCR. Then people could complain about the flicker...

People complain about everything they don't like, I think thats very normal . I don't know it exactly, but the PWM of my Jet seems to work with frequencies over 100Hz - I see no problem with it.
Maybe that it is inefficient to accomodate both battery types with the kind of regulation the P1D-CE is using. But is it more efficient to buy a new set of rechareables and a new charger only for this light!? For normal usage (not very often) I would need three batteries and one charger. I would say this will show me a minimum of 20$ more investment.

 

[N162E]

3,7V-RCRs are standard-technology.
The light may be good for beginners, but Fenix is able to do a better job. They've proved this with the LxP, LxT or the P1. If you won't hear this - don't read this, and: do not scathe me!.
:thumbsdow

No scathe intended, just fact. 3,7-RCRS are about as far from standard technology as you can get. New, untested and nobody has ever heard oif them outside of a few people in this forum. If you had tried the cell in a light in a shop and burned it out you would have owned a burned out light. I actually appreciate your information and look forward to more from you. This light was presented to work with a 3 volt CR-123. You discovered that it does not work with a RCR-123, thanks for the research. Don't burn the light for doing what it is sold to do. BTW how about a link to that Jetbeam you keep referring to.

 

[4sevens]

No scathe intended, just fact. 3,7-RCRS are about as far from standard technology as you can get. New, untested and nobody has ever heard oif them outside of a few people in this forum. If you had tried the cell in a light in a shop and burned it out you would have owned a burned out light. I actually appreciate your information and look forward to more from you. This light was presented to work with a 3 volt CR-123. You discovered that it does not work with a RCR-123, thanks for the research. Don't burn the light for doing what it is sold to do. BTW how about a link to that Jetbeam you keep referring to.

I have to agree with this. I've considered carrying the rcr123's and some chargers. But even with the protection circuit, it's a HUGE liability from
a business standpoint. I am told that my business insurance would at least
double if I carried li-ion's specifically.

The only single cr123a light that uses rcr123's is the HDS EDC.

With that being said, chevrofreaks runtime results with rcr123's have
been quite excellent. The primary setting drops into regulation after
about 10 minutes and it runs regulated for about 1.5 hours
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1735463

 

[faucon]

I just received a P1D CE for Christmas and the head tilts left and right, turning on the light and cycling through the stages. Has anyone else had this problem? Do I have a bad one? The search functions dies due to the numerous P1D CE posts

Thanks

It works normally when I use my P1D-CE as I most often do, holding it with one hand and turning the bezel with the other. However, when I try to operate the light one-handed, it does act a bit peculiar and jumps from one level to the next even if I'm not trying to get it to do this.

 

[daywalker]

I would say it is not only putting in an envelope and a drop in the mail box. For me, a small package via airmail to amerika cost me the amount of 24€ with insurance. That is half the cost of a P1D CE.
For international buyers this is relly an issue.

You are right. Its real tough to put it in an envelope and drop it in a mail box.

 

[daywalker]

I have received my package today with a P1D, P1DCE and a LOD(all black ones) and i have the problem with the threads not only with my P1DCE also with the P1D. Both heads tilt left and right. Turning on and cycling through the stages is no problem at all, but if you carry your light in the pocket while sitting in a chair it could happen that there will be a pressure on the head and the light will turn on or even cycle for a long time. The next time you want to use it you realize a empty battery.
I will contact 4sevens what we can do about and i am pretty sure he will work it out.
But for the quick check at the lights they really perform very well in brightness and i am really looking forward for the replacements.

 

[naturelle]

3,7-RCRS are about as far from standard technology as you can get. New, untested and nobody has ever heard oif them outside of a few people in this forum.

3,7V RCR123 is a very normal Lithium-rechargeable battery, only with the form-factor "CR123". There's no "new" or "untested" - you can buy them in "protected" or "unprotected".

If you had tried the cell in a light in a shop and burned it out you would have owned a burned out light.

You cannot "burn out" the light with an 3,7V-RCR. The only effect you get is that the light is working in direct-drive, without any working regulation. That's all.

BTW how about a link to that Jetbeam you keep referring to.

You mean like this? The Jetbeam Jet-1 Mk-2 is a well known light here in cpf I guess.

 

[EngrPaul]

Daywalker,

You will need to unscrew the head at least a full turn beyond off if you want to prevent unintentinal illumination.

 

[naturelle]

But even with the protection circuit, it's a HUGE liability from a business standpoint.

Not more than with other Lithium-rechargeables. In the meantime it's no more problem here to buy 3V-CR123-rechargeables called "photo-rechargeable". But there's no chemical difference between a 3V and a 3,7V rechargeable.

With that being said, chevrofreaks runtime results with rcr123's have been quite excellent. The primary setting drops into regulation after
about 10 minutes and it runs regulated for about 1.5 hours
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1735463

Chevrofreaks work is always excellent. But I do not agree with his summary, that the light drops into a visible regulation. I've tested it with a brand new 3,7V-RCR, and the light is working without any visible(!) regulation until a few (about 3 or so) minutes before shutting down through the protection-circuit of the cell.