Philips Nightguide Platinum: how are they?

[haha1234]

Philips has a new line of bulbs called Night Guide Platinum. They are made in China, unlike the Xtreme Vision that is mostly made in Germany.

The most significant thing about them is that they are available in 9005XS and 9006XS, the straight base variants of 9005 and 9006. No Silverstar Ultra or Nighthawks are available with the straight base, nor is Philips' own Xtreme Vision.

There are some cars that require the straight base bulbs and cannot use regular angle base 9005/9006, such as the 2nd gen LH cars like the Chrysler Concorde, and the late 4th gen 98-02 Firebird/Trans Am with the LMC sealed beam conversions. I want to install those LMC conversions, but they have been out of stock for a long time (even before the pandemic), and they're not accepting backorders. The cars requiring a straight base also cannot use HIR 9011/9012 since there is no 9012XS

The Nightguide Platinums are not listed on the Philips website, but they are sold at legit Philips vendors.

 

[-Virgil-]

There is something potentially "fishy" about these: they do not appear on any actual Philips web site, anywhere in the world. Usually it's the other way around, a new Philips product will appear on a Philips web site, at least somewhere in the world, before it actually enters distribution. The pictures I can find on the web -- always on non-Philips sites -- show what looks like real Philips packaging, but that doesn't mean anything. As far as country of origin goes, the picture of the H7 package I saw said made in Poland (and appears to be a package printed for the North American markets). Philips does make halogen bulbs in Poland, but so far all we're talking about is an origin country claim on a picture of a package on a non-Philips web site.

I am scratching my head at why Philips would have two different-name +130 halogen products at the same time. Maybe there is a legitimate explanation for all of this. Maybe the Philips American branch office decided to keep the X-Treme Vision product name for the +100 product (as shown on the US web site) and launch the new Night Guide Platinum name for the +130 product, instead of just upgrading the X-Treme Vision from +100 to +130 as they did in Europe/rest of world a few years back. Here is a 3rd-party blurb, out of Canada last year, that reads like a reprint of a factory press release. So...where is that press release in any shape or form? When I search on a text string that sounds especially press-releasy ("Philips' innovative production techniques and tailor-made gas composition"), I only come up with that Canadian web site.

The bulbs themselves look like basically a carbon copy of the Sylvania Silver Star Ultra: heavy blue tint bands and also colorless bands. Placement of the bands varies by bulb types; some of them overlap the filament(s) and others don't. On the web sites where these bulbs do appear, I find the same kind of weaselly disclaimer as Sylvania uses: they put an asterisk near the "Up to +130% more light" claim, and then say "*compared to standard minimum legal requirements in low beam headlight test results". So...a headlamp with one of these bulbs produces up to 130% more light than the minimum requirement? Big deal, tons of headlamps do that all day long with standard bulbs. I am guessing these bulbs (if they are real/legitimate) are roughly the same as the European +130 X-treme Vision product, but I want to see/do some real testing before I can say for sure.

As far as the XS bulbs go: the HIR1 and HIR2 bulbs can be used in those LMC 150 x 92mm conversions; I've seen it done and I've done it myself, too. In some cases you have to enlarge the center hole in the headlamp bucket to clear the 90° base. Of course, first you have to get a hold of the conversion lamp units! Other straight base applications can accept the 90° bulbs without too much difficulty, too, including those 2nd-gen LH cars you mention; there are how-to tutorials on the web about it.

 

[haha1234]

I emailed Philips asking whether they really are real Philips products. If they reply, I will relay the info here

 

[haha1234]

I heard back from Philips, and they are legit. The NGP does exist, and the best place to buy them is Amazon. I was given this link for the catalog search to find the bulb type:
https://www.automotivebulbfinder.com/philips/

The email was from a sitel.com address and sitel seems to be some outsourced call center operation, and the email signature had the Lumileds logo

 

[-Virgil-]

So...wait. Some unknown 3rd party said "Uhhhh...yeah! They're legit! You should buy them on Amazon!"

OK, I believe you that that's what happened, but I am having a hard time believing them. I can sign off with the Lumileds logo, too.

 

[Alaric Darconville]

I heard back from Philips

Did you?

The email was from a sitel.com address

You didn't.

and sitel seems to be some outsourced call center operation, and the email signature had the Lumileds logo

And that email from official-paypal-customer-service@gmаil.com had the PayPal logo on it but that doesn't mean it's really from PayPal.

I found an October 2021 YouTube video (QZ9Ku_GML4I) from a channel called "Philips Automotive Lighting - Canada" with all of 81 subscribers, but that same product is conspicuously absent from the Philips Canada website (philips.ca).

 

[Autolamps]

They are real Philips products to replace the xtreme vision which is to be discontinued. So some overlap currently so stock up on the old ones now buy while you can! Memo to dealers came out in July 2021

 

[-Virgil-]

Interesting. Can you show us the memo, or retype it for us?

 

[haha1234]

So...wait. Some unknown 3rd party said "Uhhhh...yeah! They're legit! You should buy them on Amazon!"

OK, I believe you that that's what happened, but I am having a hard time believing them. I can sign off with the Lumileds logo, too.

Did you?


You didn't.


And that email from official-paypal-customer-service@gmаil.com had the PayPal logo on it but that doesn't mean it's really from PayPal.

I found an October 2021 YouTube video (QZ9Ku_GML4I) from a channel called "Philips Automotive Lighting - Canada" with all of 81 subscribers, but that same product is conspicuously absent from the Philips Canada website (philips.ca).

I am aware of the above, but Sitel is a real company, and they even have a wikipedia article.

With all the stupid outsourcing poop that goes on, it really is hard to tell sometimes! However, I promise I visited their site before reporting back here!
(such outsourcing is also a large part of the supply chain troubles we have now)

Osram/Sylvania spun off their automotive business, as did GE (Tungsram), so Philips following suit shouldn't be a surprise.

There can sometimes be some differences between Canadian and US offerings from the same company.

Do you know a Philips or Lumileds contact I could email? A philips.com or a lumileds.com email I can write to regarding their automotive products?

I contacted Philips using this page and clicking the "email us" button and got the response from sitel

 

[Zac88]

I Was able to get a few sets off of Amazon Canada, tested them at 3 meters with my LUX meter like I do with all my bulbs

9012 - 3020 LUX
9005 - 3905 LUX
H7 - 940 LUX

I really don't know why the H7 is so low, for comparison the Nightbreakers 200 tested at 1200 LUX.
Daniel Sterns Vosla 65w tested at almost 1500 LUX.

They look plenty legit to me!

 

[Zac88]

Find the automotive lighting bulbs you need and learn where you can buy them, online or in-store.

Search for your vehicle, year, make and model. Find the replacement bulbs you need. Quick and easy.

www.automotivebulbfinder.com

This website shows 2 new bulbs from Philips

 

[-Virgil-]

tested them at 3 meters with my LUX meter like I do with all my bulbs

9012 - 3020 LUX
9005 - 3905 LUX
H7 - 940 LUX
I really don't know why the H7 is so low, for comparison the Nightbreakers 200 tested at 1200 LUX.
Daniel Sterns Vosla 65w tested at almost 1500 LUX.

Your numbers look weird. What's your test setup? You're putting the bulbs in headlamps, or you're operating them out in the open? If they're in headlamps, they'd obviously have to be in a variety of different headlamps, because a headlamp that takes a 9012 bulb won't accept an H7 bulb (for example).

 

[Zac88]

Just bulbs installed in my vehicles.
9012 and 9005 in 2008 Jeep Grand Cherokee
H7 in 2005 Subaru Legacy

 

[Alaric Darconville]

Just bulbs installed in my vehicles.
9012 and 9005 in 2008 Jeep Grand Cherokee
H7 in 2005 Subaru Legacy

One can compare apples to apples and even apples to oranges, but this is comparing apples to Beethoven.

A more informative comparison would be HB4 vs. HIR2 in that Grand Cherokee, or a "Long Life" H7 vs a high-performance H7 in that Legacy.

Or, you could put the bulbs in an integrating sphere and see how their total output compares with the standard rating for the bulb type.

Also, we don't know the true operating voltage of the bulbs (it's not as easy as just running a voltmeter on the bulb socket (see here), so that puts a lot of unknowns in your testing.

 

[Zac88]

A 9006 in the same headlight is about 1200 LUX

 

[-Virgil-]

Just bulbs installed in my vehicles. 9012 and 9005 in 2008 Jeep Grand Cherokee H7 in 2005 Subaru Legacy

OK, that helps explain your numbers you came up with. You can compare like-to-like (example: various H7 bulbs in the left low beam of your Subaru with your luxmeter in exactly the same place and the car at exactly the same distance, with the battery equally as charged and the headlamp equally as clean every time). But you can't compare different bulb types in different lamps to one another; that would be a meaningless comparison.

 

[Zac88]

OK, that helps explain your numbers you came up with. You can compare like-to-like (example: various H7 bulbs in the left low beam of your Subaru with your luxmeter in exactly the same place and the car at exactly the same distance, with the battery equally as charged and the headlamp equally as clean every time). But you can't compare different bulb types in different lamps to one another; that would be a meaningless comparison.

Oh yes you're correct, I am using the exact same procedure every time and cleaning the lenses. Basically all I can conjure is what bulb is brighter than the other in this exact situation.
I know this isnt a perfect lab style results or conclusions but its good enough for my little hobby.

 

[Zac88]

One can compare apples to apples and even apples to oranges, but this is comparing apples to Beethoven.

A more informative comparison would be HB4 vs. HIR2 in that Grand Cherokee, or a "Long Life" H7 vs a high-performance H7 in that Legacy.

Or, you could put the bulbs in an integrating sphere and see how their total output compares with the standard rating for the bulb type.

Also, we don't know the true operating voltage of the bulbs (it's not as easy as just running a voltmeter on the bulb socket (see here), so that puts a lot of unknowns in your testing.

I have done multiple different bulbs in the same housings so that gives me an indication of whats brighter and such.
And what do you mean I can't use a multi meter in my bulb socket to check voltage? That makes no sense to me as probing wiring and sockets is a huge part of my job, you're saying those voltage readings are fake?

 

[-Virgil-]

Oh yes you're correct, I am using the exact same procedure every time and cleaning the lenses.

I'm looking hard at your H7 results. You list:

Philips NGPL: 940 Lx
Osram NB200: 1200 Lx
Stern/Vosla 65w: 1500 Lx

at a test distance of 3 meters. So that translates to:

Philips NGPL: 8460 cd
Osram NB200: 10,800 cd
Stern/Vosla 65w: 13,500 cd

This is what makes me wonder about how exactly-repeatable your positioning of the meter is. There's a fairly sharp cutoff on that Subaru low beam, and there are also some fairly big gradients within the beam (underneath the cutoff), so even a seemingly small displacement of the luxmeter vs. the headlamp could dramatically influence the results. Of course, this caveat goes poof if you set everything up and tested all three bulbs in a row without moving anything.

As far as socket voltage goes: I think what Alaric is getting at is keeping voltage drop in mind and measuring across the socket when it is energized and connected to the bulb, not when it's pulled off the bulb, to read the actual operating voltage and not the open-circuit voltage.

 

[Zac88]

When I'm using the LUX meter, I keep in on the MAX mode so it stores the max LUX reading, and I sweep it up and down across the wall on both beams.
Near the end of this video is how I test, although I go much wider than this guy.