PKFL2LE review (650lm, 2xCR123A, 1x17650)

[texas cop]

frankly i'm not impressed. and it's got that cheapo light vibe to it... that crumpled sheet of foam kinda validates that

is that a bare PCB trace as + terminal in there? no proper metal terminal? i take it this is not weapon-mountable...

"in god we trust". really? that's a little scary to put in there... thomas jefferson must be turning in his grave

i wanna know if the bezel is pressing directly against the glass. yes impact resistance...

And why would Thomas Jefferson be turning in his grave? I like the In God We Trust. If this was a government run company then delete the quote, it's not separation of church and business. Don't let it scare you.

I would like to see the tube opened up to allow 18650's.

 

[RedForest UK]

Of course the 'In God we trust' quote will be a bit controversial; a positive for some and a negative for others. Regardless of personal taste, my thoughts were that it was a cheap and easy way to make the light seem more American, given that it's actually made in China but clearly aimed at an overlapping market to the 'buy American' crowd.

 

[Greta]

Of course the 'In God we trust' quote will be a bit controversial; a positive for some and a negative for others. Regardless of personal taste, my thoughts were that it was a cheap and easy way to make the light seem more American, given that it's actually made in China but clearly aimed at an overlapping market to the 'buy American' crowd.

Or maybe it has something to do with the designer/manufacturer being an American and wanting to somehow express and incorporate his pride and appreciation of that. Sometimes people want to "read" more into something than is really there. Funny that - I remember years ago PK telling me something that I have never forgotten... "It is what it is - nothing more". I don't remember what he was referring to at the time but the sentiment stuck with me. I think that was the first time I'd ever heard that expression and thought it pretty profound and in line with my own personal K.I.S.S. principle.

Edit added: BTW... /start shameless plug: I LOVE the new CPF and CPFMP mobile apps! I get instant notifications on my phone for subscribed threads. This really is NICE!! /end shameless plug

 

[Chauncey Gardiner]

Of course the 'In God we trust' quote will be a bit controversial; a positive for some and a negative for others. Regardless of personal taste, my thoughts were that it was a cheap and easy way to make the light seem more American, given that it's actually made in China but clearly aimed at an overlapping market to the 'buy American' crowd.

I think somebody spends an inordinate amount of energy carrying around a chip on his shoulder. :sigh:

~ Chance

 

[RedForest UK]

I think somebody spends an inordinate amount of energy carrying around a chip on his shoulder. :sigh:

~ Chance

Fair point, it's just a torch and not even my money being spent on it. I don't want to be a pr*ck about it.

It's not a 'chip' that bothers me in real life tbh, where I'm actually quite laid back

I guess it's a bit like the whole 'extremebeam' thing, though of course this is a totally different situation in many ways. I didn't want to come out and imply this was the case but I really don't like what I see as market exploitation.. I suppose I just don't get what makes this light special in any way apart from the name, or even as good as other offerings at a fifth of the price. Maybe PK deserves to take advantage of his reputation, I don't know him but he's probably a great guy. I just think that if this light had been released under another brand name and judged solely on merit then the response would have been very different.

I have no problem believing that PK is a good at designing torches. But as another poster said, on this evidence alone, I think he can do better.

Anyway, I didn't mean to upset the apple cart, so I really should have just left it at mentioning the possible downsides of the UI. I shouldn't have bothered to get involved with comments about something so trivial as writing on the tailcap but my thoughts above were just my honest initial reaction. Of course I may have been too cynical. I'll just shut up about it all now and leave you guys to carry on with the thread.

 

[Chauncey Gardiner]

Fair point, it's just a torch and not even my money being spent on it. I don't want to be a pr*ck about it.

It's not a 'chip' that bothers me in real life tbh, where I'm actually quite laid back

^ A gentleman's reply. Thank you.

~ Chance

 

[Greta]

^ A gentleman's reply. Thank you.

~ Chance

Ditto. Well done

 

[pk]

Gentlemen,
I am so happy to hear all inputs including critiques and I will try to address as many issues as I can with my humble honesty. This is a good opportunity for me to communicate with you all.

1. Value:
If you judge anything by specification, you've encountered wrong product.
Many watches do the same function that it tells you the time. But you do accept different price points. How so? You can buy a watch that tells exact time at fraction of cost than others, yet you purchase little different than others at much different costs?
If you compare any product by just their specifications, you might be a little disappointed by not much difference when considering similar class with equivalent power and light source.
PK DESIGN LAB products are much about fine details of Ergonomic, Engineering approach, Design details, Design style, and new fresh Artistic attempts of machining methods for all details in cosmetic pleasure as well, etc. Not your old sand blasted and cheap knurled tube copies of SureFire wanna-be things. I have moved on..

Please be advised, this light may not be for you at all to purchase based on SPECIFICATIONS VS. PRICE. I am sure you may be easily satisfied for your requirements in those aspects with many others.
PK products are definitely not designed and targeted for everyone in many respects.
As company motto said, it is "Designed for Cultivated Expectations".

2. UI:
Programing different reset time is very simple and it does not cost any more.
I do not believe in any products or switch that I can NOT predict what it will do without my true understandings. I call it "unpredictable" switch. How many seconds can you COUNT in real emergency situation? Or Do you must count that seconds or can you afford that? 20 seconds is stable enough for you to know that your switch has been reset and move on. Or do you want to have a switch you don't know which mode it will come on after whatever short reset time is or was?? I don't think you want to think about it when bullets are passing through next to you and counting flashlight's reset time..
Your best UI is your finger and you can control at your command at any time.
That's the reason my lights don't have ridiculous SOS or flashings mode function.
There is no additional cost for program change, but unpredictable switch may cost your life in some serious situation.
Trust your faithful UI finger. Your finger can do it all at your command very successfully without any electronic babble and that's my UI philosophy.

3. "In God We Trust":
This goes way beyond Thomas and can be interpreted in many different ways.
I only mean "We believe God will know that we must do right things and God will be behind us".
There is no political or marketing agenda behind it.
FYI, Outside of package clearly state with BIG letters that it is "Made in China" without shameful small hindering letters.
We, all of my teams, are very proud of what we are doing and that it is right as we know it.
As it said "In God We Trust", we will trust in God with our commitments.

4. Critics:
I've seen and learned many times that criticisms are good, but many of them are expressed with personal attack or emotions that diminish their own merits.
It is sad to see many productive ideas dying due to their lack of true expression.
I've been in this arena many years and have gotten used to being treated as a ridiculous idiot.
Many times I've introduced new different ideas and gotten criticized with hammers.
Like I've introduced hexagonal bezel, $480 M4 big flashlight with 6 X CR123 batteries that gets so hot, L4 head with wide flood beam, big *** HID flashlight, etc.. Oh, my ICON lights with different program that you are not so used to it too.

DIFFERENT is not necessarily WRONG.
This is the way we EVOLVE.

5. Reputation:
Constructive criticism is very good for all manufacturers and users in order to understand what is behind it all. And many times it does support to create better products - or not.

What is so fun or needed about new products coming out that are doing the same thing that you have or are familiar with? Cheaper price? Yes, that has a value too many.
But, I will continue your excitements with more controversial products that are NOT the same as you've become comfortable with.. Hey, that's my excitement and duty that I know of..
I am really happy doing what I do and to have people who criticize and encourage..
I already have a place to sleep and enough food.. oh, sorry - enough to drink too !!
Are there any other things I need more than my own experienced compelling passion?

Since I have opened my own company PK DESIGN LAB after quitting my old company, I have filed more than 120 patents within the last 2 years. Even this month alone, I've filed 5 design patents and 3 utility/invention patents through my consulting companies.
Chances are, you probably are already using my patented products or you will soon or later, whether it is original or copies

I have no intention to sell my products based on MADE IN USA idea, which I've never supported it either.
I would be sad to hear if anyone purchases my products for my name sake.
Please purchase my products for their own value and merits for you to appreciate long long time.

6. Packaging:
I have to agree that my initial packaging is not so impressive as much as many suggested.
Definitely, I should make better package then what it is when we can do a larger volume of production. Complete agreement with many that expensive fancy package will enhance product image and project perceive value of product at premium value.

7. Warranty:
We have 1 year limited warranty policy in public statement. Since it is limited production, it is not realistic for us to state that we will provide you with any unrealistic LIFE TIME warranty.
Limited spare parts have been reserved for repairs and we will support purchased products as much as we can despite stated time frame limitation as much as we can.
Remember "In God We Trust", we will put our trust in God with our commitments.

These kind of Town Hall conversations are good.
And feel free to email me your personal thoughts here: [email protected].
Respectfully,
pk

 

[KITROBASKIN]

This man is certainly deserving of respect. And with great anticipation we look forward to more beautiful designs from his original mind and capable leadership.


Sent from my iPad using Candlepowerforums

 

[viperxp]

WOW PK, what can I say, can't wait to see whats coming next from you. A really thoughtful answer to all or most of the issues/questions asked or raised here .....
If you already compared with watches branding/functionality .... What watch or maybe car brand would you say PK DESIGN LAB has the same or similar approach or spirit?
Not Citizen/Ford I guess

 

[RedForest UK]

2. UI:
Programing different reset time is very simple and it does not cost any more.
I do not believe in any products or switch that I can NOT predict what it will do without my true understandings. I call it "unpredictable" switch. How many seconds can you COUNT in real emergency situation? Or Do you must count that seconds or can you afford that? 20 seconds is stable enough for you to know that your switch has been reset and move on. Or do you want to have a switch you don't know which mode it will come on after whatever short reset time is or was?? I don't think you want to think about it when bullets are passing through next to you and counting flashlight's reset time..
Your best UI is your finger and you can control at your command at any time.
That's the reason my lights don't have ridiculous SOS or flashings mode function.
There is no additional cost for program change, but unpredictable switch may cost your life in some serious situation.
Trust your faithful UI finger. Your finger can do it all at your command very successfully without any electronic babble and that's my UI philosophy.

PK, I appreciate your response to the issues raised and apologise for my cynicism about the writing on the tailcap.

I wasn't planning on writing anymore in this thread but find your explanation of the choice of UI interesting but puzzling. I agree entirely with you regarding the notion of predictability, especially for a 'tactical' light, but that is exactly why I raised my original point.

Don't you think that the rule for what mode it will come on in being: 'high unless this is a double click' (a reset time of less than 500ms) is much more predictable than the rule: 'the other mode from the one which the light was in last, unless that was over 20 seconds ago, in which case definitely high'?

The second rule means that if used repeatedly, half of the time it will come on in the secondary mode before the high mode, and if the break between uses is around 20 seconds it will be very difficult to predict at all.

I agree that 2-3 second reset times are undesirable, as you pointed out due to the need to 'count' in your head. However, below 2 seconds it becomes very intuitive to just feel if the amount of time has elapsed (probably a temporal equivalent of 'subitising') without the need to count. Whereas, if the time is as high as 20 seconds, that possibility is lost entirely, along with the chance of repeated momentary activation in the primary mode.

 

[SuLyMaN]

Conclusions


So ... Features/lumens vise it's not a great hit - many other flashlights give more at a fraction of it's cost. But it you take into account the durability and the value of the flashlight - the fact that it's a result of a work of a real master that influenced the flashlight industry as we see it today, and the fact that the flashlight is a part of limited edition - it may look very different.

Thank you for reading. If you have any questions/suggestions I will be happy to hear and assist. My English is far from being perfect, so sorry for the typos.

I get it that features wise/lumens wise, its a flop imho. How can you vouch for the durability of the flashlight though? And what exactly do you mean by the value of the flashlight?
Don't get me wrong. For that money which I don't own of course and from my time being there reading, I would trust a HDS light.

 

[martinaee]

The manufacturer is proud that the flashlight will not slip from the hand even if you use gloves or hands are wet even with blood.

So this is a flashlight for Hannibal Lector then? :huh:

 

[adnj]

Lots of styling and not much performance, it seems.

 

[subwoofer]

Lots of styling and not much performance, it seems.

From a general perspective it is not that simple. The more robust and reliable a light is, the lower the performance might be (compared to 'toy' lights), so I wouldn't criticise this light just on its output.

I have no idea how robust it really is, and how well it would perform if used 'in anger', so can't comment on this aspect of the light. What worries me is if this is a light for 'serious' use, then the aggressive styling, though it may give enhanced grip, might snag on pouches or clothing and become a hindrance. Not being military or LEO, I have no direct experience of this, so can only guess.

 

[bykfixer]

My Malkoffs come in bubble wrap. So what? I trust them with my life.

When my PK arrives I'll do the same. Plain packages are COOL!!!
I do not intend on dropping it from a helicopter.
But I do know when SHTF this light will be part of my GTHO gear.

Far as cycling goes, my fumble fingers can do the momentary thing to get it where I want it or I know where the switch will be for next time I click. Thank you!

Many times brilliance is misunderstood by the simple. So it is dismissed instead of pondered. This light appears to be one of those cases. Again it's a low production WSHTF light, with details few will notice; less will appreciate.

When I first saw the FL 2 my thought was 'holy cow, gotta have a PK light'...but like many others I studied it and the more I read the tougher it was not to pull the trigger. In many cases the more I study the more I think "nah"...there's usually a thorn in the rose.

I bought it before knowing "In God We Trust" was on the tail cap. And frankly I'm glad I did not know it was there before purchase was made. Because I bought it for it being a GREAT flashlight. Yet you can bet your sweet bippy everybody I show it to will know that slogan is there.

Ima a Malkoff nut and a Streamlight fanboy. I like cop lights. This one fits that category.
But the more I read about the FL 2 the more I decided this may be the perfect flashlight for me.

Great for household use, search n rescue, punching a bobcat in the face if need be, back scratcher, or taking care of business. C'mon December 23rd....(scheduled arrival data)

 

[bykfixer]

Got the light the other day.

The light was all snuggled in a wrap of foam and the box was easy to open n close.
For the serious collector it's easily kept in mint condition down to the packaging.



I pulled it out and played with it for about an hour, put it back in the packaging and went online and bought a second one. One will go in the safe, the other will be used...somewhat...
I say somewhat because this thing is not a toy. It's a piece of personal protective gear I hope I never need.
But I gotta say, when ever I edc it, I feel sorry for the sheath it'll be housed in. Those CNC edges are no joke. I can't imagine how sharp they'd be if they weren't chemically polished...wow.
But that to me is part of the charm of the FL 2.


The beam won't cook popcorn and the UI won't make hotel reservations. But I'm ok with that.


^^ yeah, that'll do!

I found the 20 second delay thing very comforting. It surprised me once when it was still on low, but within a 1/4 second was back on high. I'm used to rapid momentary cycling due to some Streamlight UI's and frequent household use of those who-fire? G2x Pro lights....
It was a pleasure to use the FL 2 while I did and I eagerly await the next one. Unless the next one has my favorite number in the S/N it'll be the user.

I appreciated that if I accidently dropped it, or had to play David vs Goliath with it, the finish would likely be undamaged, or hardly so.

And the beam...oh my! Imo it was a perfect marriage between the bright hot spot of a C4 refector and the Utopian blend of spot to spill of the M61. Big Ole spot that seemlessly blends into beyond peripheral vision spill.

It gets warm. Quick. I'm no genious, but that tells me somehow all that excess heat is being vacuum away from the emitter as my other 650-ish lights don't get anywhere near that warm on the outside.
I feel comfortable knowing all that excess heat is being radiated.... instead of hanging around the inside of the head like those other lights.

To all the nay sayers I say thank you. That meant there were still some of these fine lights left when I wanted one..or two.


^^ 25 yards, 30 minutes before a rainy day sundown.
Sunshine on a cloudy day.


^^ at dusk a couple hundred feet away.
Note the lit rain drop caught in motion left of the tree. It was like watching a meteor shower while I checked out the PK.



I pity the fool on the wrong end of this light.


Edit:
PK FL2 LE Popsicle: http://youtu.be/8JvkVrvpp04

 

[teak]

OK, I'm going to bring up this old thread. Something I never do...I have been eyeing the FL2LE since its release. Knowing what Paul has done with Surefire back in the day of good surefire lights, I kept a close on on this on. I did however never pick one up. Mainly because I thought it was going to be too large. Then last week one came up for sale on the mall for a decent price. We then decided to do a trade. I was really wanting to try this thing out. It showed up later and I removed it from the box and was shocked at how small it actually was. I looked it over good and decided to EDC for awhile and see what I thought. I ended up using a 2 way clip from an Armytek Wizard. It works great on the PK and allows me to deep pocket carry this beast. I really like it!, I do not like 15 different mode lights and click this and turn that to get a ridiculous 10 million lumens for a claimed 20 hours. I like simple 2 mode lights that have good output and a usable low. This low being 20 or 40 lumens is very useful for most every task, and a quick press gets you a very nice 600+ lumen floody beam. It feels better to me then any of my Surefires and Malkoffs, which I love BTW. Hard to say if I will be carrying this 2 years from now but there is a good chance it will be in the rotation. To me it's a flashlight, a tool. The fact that it is a limited edition doesn't mean anything to me. It will get bashed and scratched and dropped etc. Just like all my lights. I am glad I was able to score one of these before they were gone. Again, sorry to bring up an old thread on a light that is no longer being made, However I had to throw in my 2 cents!.

Thank you
TJ

 

[bykfixer]

^^ You pocket carry it?
⊙▁⊙

That's some mighty tough pockets you got there.



It was the pinacle of LED flashlight to this user. Still is. I use this one as the benchmark to reference my other LED lights.

Frankly I'm glad you brought it back up Teak. It gave me the urge to use/enjoy mine more.

This one was a unique one (in a good way) in the age of "shiney stuff" and a little time with a search engine can still be found NIP for about $90.

Edit:
The archimedes graph seemingly applies based on time instead of post count there, uh teak.

 

[Swedpat]

I have been aware of PKFL2LE since it was released but didn't find it enough interesting: can't be used with 18650 and I would not describe the design as good looking, ok it's pretty cool maybe...
But then I recently read the review at Flashlightguide and saw that it has great performance with 16650, yes even better at high level than CR123s. And suddenly the light became much more interesting. Apart from that I hate slippery lights and it's no doubt that the design of this light provides a good grip.
Then there is another issue: I read 20s reset time, which is really extreme! I don't find it any reason to be much longer reset time than a second or so.
But then I thought about it and came to the conclusion that it may not be a huge problem when it's only two modes. If I assume that it always starts at high it will not be a big problem if I get the low mode. It's worse if I am prepared for the low mode and it starts at high...

Anyway: finally I pulled the trigger and ordered it. First I tried from Amazon but it didn't work because they don't ship to Sweden. So I got it from eBay. Expected time for delivery is april 8-13.