NAW
Enlightened
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I'm surprised that the price of the Helios is greater than that of the X1. I figured with the smaller ballast the X1 would be more expensive than the Helios... but I guess not.
Polarion Price Increases?
- Thread starter bhj1
- Start date
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Windy, we have an idea of the trade-off that may or may not occur with regard to the Helios instant-on feature. Polarion says the lamp as used in their light, is good for 2500 hours. The light has a 1-year warranty. If the lamp or ballast dies within the year, it will be repaired/replaced. We know this going in - you can bank on it. These are facts you know that you can use to make a purchase/no purchase decision. Beyond that, you take a chance. The way I see it with regard to the lamp, (and this is old news that has been hashed over a few times) if you use the light for an hour a day, 365 days a year, it will last - according to Polarion, 6.8 years or so. Chances are, you're probably going to have long gotten rid of the light by that time and replaced it with the new and improved model. I think the lamp may have a normal rated life of 3000? If the instant-start feature robs 1/2 of the life of the lamp, that (3.4 years of life) is something I am willing to live with.
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LITEDISORDER
Newly Enlightened
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YEA! What he said.
windstrings
Flashlight Enthusiast
BVH said:
If the instant startup only knocks 1/3 life off the bulb, its a feature I wouldn't mind having as a tradeoff either, but I'm still wondering whats up with the ballast.. but at any rate.. its a very expensive feature if thats all we are talking about.
In fact if the Xerays had an option to get instant startup with guarantee the ballast will stay happy.. I would take that tradeoff. But we are talking about a light that cost less than half what the Helios cost....
it is an interesting tradeoff..... if we knew exactly what was involved in that tradeoff "besides bulb life" it may be worth choosing.. but not for another 1600.00.
Better not go to Vegas if you're not willing to gamble a bit. :nana:
windstrings
Flashlight Enthusiast
BVH said:
Thats one way to put it... you must be a highroller to play around with that kind of money.....
[LOL] I don't know why you guys are arguing about such minor nuances as the cost effectiveness of variations with instant-on features, since these lights are only being marketed to the military and government agencies.
We CPF'ers only "want the power of the sun for the price of a candy bar and the size of an Orb Raw," so we have no business being involved in conversations like this....let alone actual considerations for buying these lights. Well I guess you could enlist in the Army and then maybe consider having your Sgt. buy one for your unit's C.O. to enjoy. [/LOL]
We CPF'ers only "want the power of the sun for the price of a candy bar and the size of an Orb Raw," so we have no business being involved in conversations like this....let alone actual considerations for buying these lights. Well I guess you could enlist in the Army and then maybe consider having your Sgt. buy one for your unit's C.O. to enjoy. [/LOL]
mtbkndad
Flashlight Enthusiast
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LuxLuthor said:
For the record, I really do want the power of the sun for the price of a candy bar and the size of and Orb Raw and know other CPF members that want the same thing.
Based on Mac's post I will add one more feature.
I WANT IT TO STAY OFF WHEN IT IS OFF!!!!!!
I have an aversion to flaming backpack syndrome!
Aside from that, I completely agree with you about arguing about the cost effectiveness of such features. I know of certain military and security applications where instant on would be a must. Therefore the cost of such features, whether in dollars spent to purchase or in compontent life, would be incidental. However aside from those, my HID light that warms up in around 10 seconds (fairly dim to bright enough for use) is just fine.
My Costco HID's were used for extra fill light in my shop the other night and their roughly 30 second warm up was just fine.
My take on all of these lights is, find the features that are most important to you and buy accordingly. For me the light output of a Barn Burner is just overkill.
Small size and packability are king. I also want it to be rugged.
I do stand by what I was saying about marketing to the military and government agencies. Not exclusively, but it seems to be a primary focus. Whether dealing with Surfire Hellfighter, Beast 2, Polarion Helios, or Polarion X1.
The unfortunate thing about this for private consumers is that the suggested retail price for single unit purchases needs to be at a level that allows sufficient room for quantity discounts. Often the larger the quantity the larger the discount. Now if a light comes from a corporation then through several distribution channels before reaching dealers there need to be sufficient margins for the dealers to be able to "deal" so to speak.
This is very common in multiple industries.
I have a card in my wallet that allows me to go one of the businesses (a large corporation) that I used to get supplies from and get a discount that is way below the normal discount given to contractors. This is a corporation that has many retail establishments
Why, because of another corporation that is one of my clients.
With lights like the 4 I mentioned, I do not personally see another option for marketing them. They are WAY overkill for the average person and there certainly are not enough CPF members to sustain these companies.
On top of that I found out Polarion did design and does manufacture most of the parts, body, reflector, ballast, etc.. of the Helios and X1, That means companies like Surefire and Polarion have to factor R & D into their prices.
I agree with Windstrings in principle here, it would have been better for Polarion to start with a higher price first and then when R & D is somewhat recouped or when actual production costs are better understood the price could have possibly come down and people would be happier then going the other direction with the price and have people complaining to their dealers and distributors.
It is one thing if a light is priced completely out of range of us private people to begin with like the Beast 2. It is more disheartening if it is priced at the fringe of what we can afford and then jumps up. :hairpull:
Regarding the topic of this thread more directly, I believe Ken's statement regarding the lights costing more to produce then expected seems to indicate the price increase came from Polarion.
Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:
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windstrings
Flashlight Enthusiast
OK.. that makes sense.. so lets all me at my house at 6:00 for kiss and makeup!... I'll serve the whine... I mean "wine"..... :laughing:
mtbkndad
Flashlight Enthusiast
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windstrings said:
If I lived closer we could make a CPF get together out of it :grouphug: while doing beam shots of the lights shining across the lake. Those would be some really nice shots :huh: if there are any objects on the lake that could be focused on. :huh:
Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:
I would volunteer to go swimming just for the target practice.:rock:
windstrings
Flashlight Enthusiast
LuxLuthor said:
I"m sure there are plenty of rednecks around here that may take you up on that...... its deer season!
So which light do you want on you again?
windstrings said:
How about that custom built flashing X-1 that Mac has? I can fashion it into a hat...and of course it is waterproof for my dives to make it a challenge.
I vote for the tank light!
windstrings
Flashlight Enthusiast
LuxLuthor said:
that would work.. but they will start timing your breath to determine how long you can stay under and be ready to open fire when you come up..... you better put the light on the end of a long stick!
mtbkndad
Flashlight Enthusiast
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windstrings said:
Our job on shore would be to blind the hunters with our remaining HID's as Luthluthor is about to surface. Now those would REALLY be some amazing photos.
We would need the HID's on long enough to blind the hunters and get the photos and the turn them off before we become the targets. Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:
I'm gonna skunk all you lame Texas hunting dudes, who are only used to dealing with things on 4 legs, by bringing one of these Spare Air buddies. After a while, like the hunters in Wisconsin, you will start shooting each other.
