Preon Revo Discontinued?!
- Thread starter Hoosier Light
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mhphoto
Newly Enlightened
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I know the obvious reasons for outsourcing manufacturing to China, but given that you've been burned several times by unscrupulous contractors, it begs the question as to why you don't chose somewhere else to do your business, even if just for several (expensive) American-made models. Your company could be the missing link between Maglites and Surefires in the realm of American made flashlights on the store shelves. I've spoken to many Surefire adherents, most of who I wouldn't consider flashoholics but can appreciate a quality product, in attempts to try and get you and your company some converts, but who refuse because you're products aren't made in America (even though 4Sevens in an American company).
Also I'd would love to know which lighting concepts were stolen from you. Were you hinting at the E01 killer?
And on a side note, I think the reason we all have a bug… up there… about the Revo discontinuation—or any 4Sevens light discontinuation really—is because you and your company make fantastic products at (again, I understand the Chinese manufacturing reasons) fantastic prices. I have four of your lights and I'll be buying many more in the future (unfortunately one of those would've been a Revo).
I may be going for the long shot here but I think it is time 4Sevens start manufacturing premium products labelled "Made in USA". If it is as good as what you claimed David, I wouldn't mind paying a higher price for it. This will make it easier to monitor manufacturers and ensure easier contractual law enforcement too.
Hoosier Light
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Thanks very much for clearing the air on this issue, David. It's good when the boss takes the time to set the record straight. We consumers tend to forget all the time, effort, and money that go into the development of the kind of innovative lights you have brought to the market. Not to mention problems with suppliers who don't play by the rules.
Best thing is you've given me hope for the question behind my original post:
You say regarding the Revo, "but that doesn't mean they won't be available in the future - just not now - and no promises either." I understand no promises, but my fingers are crossed.
Best thing is you've given me hope for the question behind my original post:
You say regarding the Revo, "but that doesn't mean they won't be available in the future - just not now - and no promises either." I understand no promises, but my fingers are crossed.
Ralls
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Thanks for your post David - it was very refreshing to hear from you again.
I know it must be frustrating dealing with CPFers, as they tend to get a little over-zealous at times, are nit-picky and have unreasonable demands from a business standpoint. You can't please everybody all the time, and no matter what or how much good you do, there will always be a few very vocal negative Nancys in the bunch.
I think the reason people get so impassioned about your products is because they were like a breath of fresh air when you came on the scene. You fixed just about every niggle that we had with Fenix products - finally a light with a useful low setting, reverse polarity protection, the ability to use 3.7v rechargeable batteries, perfectly centered LEDs, etc. All this coupled with astounding circuit regulation was wonderful. And later to introduce one of the nicest AAA lights on the market, the Preon Revo, and then to be one of the first to offer batches of neutrals - you were on a roll!
Bottom line is: you offer some of the nicest lights for the price and back them up with outstanding customer service.
As a testament to what I've said above, my interest in lights has waxed and waned over the years and most lights that I buy, I sell in short order. One of your lights is an exception to this rule, a neutral Quark 123 Tactical. It's a little beat up at this point, but it does everything I need it to. The only issue that I have with it is the pre-flash. I really like the forward-clicky and the neutral tint most of all. It's also proven to be very durable, as I've dropped it a few times and it still works like a champ.
The Klarus Mi10 is really a stop-gap for me; if the Revos become available again and I can get one in neutral, then I will definitely be picking one up. In the meantime, the Preon II is looking pretty interesting!
I know it must be frustrating dealing with CPFers, as they tend to get a little over-zealous at times, are nit-picky and have unreasonable demands from a business standpoint. You can't please everybody all the time, and no matter what or how much good you do, there will always be a few very vocal negative Nancys in the bunch.
I think the reason people get so impassioned about your products is because they were like a breath of fresh air when you came on the scene. You fixed just about every niggle that we had with Fenix products - finally a light with a useful low setting, reverse polarity protection, the ability to use 3.7v rechargeable batteries, perfectly centered LEDs, etc. All this coupled with astounding circuit regulation was wonderful. And later to introduce one of the nicest AAA lights on the market, the Preon Revo, and then to be one of the first to offer batches of neutrals - you were on a roll!
Bottom line is: you offer some of the nicest lights for the price and back them up with outstanding customer service.
As a testament to what I've said above, my interest in lights has waxed and waned over the years and most lights that I buy, I sell in short order. One of your lights is an exception to this rule, a neutral Quark 123 Tactical. It's a little beat up at this point, but it does everything I need it to. The only issue that I have with it is the pre-flash. I really like the forward-clicky and the neutral tint most of all. It's also proven to be very durable, as I've dropped it a few times and it still works like a champ.
The Klarus Mi10 is really a stop-gap for me; if the Revos become available again and I can get one in neutral, then I will definitely be picking one up. In the meantime, the Preon II is looking pretty interesting!
fyrstormer
Banned
4Sevens is now selling some of their lights through various "Geek"-oriented websites and catalogs. Their business is bigger than just catering to the CPF market now, and they have to look at economies of scale when deciding which products to offer, among other...issues that David mentioned.
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the.Mtn.Man
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More likely it's too hard to make a profit catering exclusively to the enthusiast market, and they're likely in a position where they can't support both enthusiast and mainstream product lines, so they're going with the one where they'll make the most money.
It's less about 4Sevens not wanting to support the enthusiast market and more about the enthusiast market not wanting to support them. I know David went above and beyond on several occasions doing special order runs like warm tints or titanium bodies, and even though there was a thread full of people insisting that they would support such a product, 4Sevens ended up losing money as the premium stock sat unwanted on their shelves.
I don't blame them for doing what they need to in order to keep their doors open.
frosty
Enlightened
Thanks for your post David.
prof
Enlightened
Thanks, David. I've got a SS Revo and carry it daily. It replaced a preon on my keyring. That preon displaced an arc AAA-p. I ALMOST went back to the arc when I removed the preon...but the revo is there to stay (well, you know...).
I hope the revo comes back. Nice light.
I hope the revo comes back. Nice light.
jerrysimons
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4Sevens :thumbsup:
So does anybody know what light ideas were stolen from 4Sevens? David mentioned that the concept for two lights were announced here on cpf...
So does anybody know what light ideas were stolen from 4Sevens? David mentioned that the concept for two lights were announced here on cpf...
****EDIT*** Speculation removed by Cave Dave.
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4sevens
Flashlight Enthusiast
Yes it is but the ideas that were ripped off were from lights that have not been released yet - and may never be.
Yes it is but the ideas that were ripped off were from lights that have not been released yet - and may never be.
I don't know if it would be a good thing to share with us what idea was ripped off from you so that we could be made aware. I for one would keep a lookout and avoid buying from that unscrupulous manufacturer who has stolen your idea.
4sevens
Flashlight Enthusiast
Nah I'll be niceand not disclose. As I said before, the prototypes will sit on my desk as a daily reminder to beware.
Actually I have two different models that got the axe. They stare at me angrily at the edge of my desk.David,
Thanks for your post. I appreciate you taking the time to do so. I've been a 4sevens purchaser/user for a long time, and recently got my brother interested in the new generation of LED flashlights. (He's still using the Arc AAA I gave him a long time ago.) He tried to sneak out with my Preon. I think you'll have another customer soon.
Sorry to hear about the unscrupulous contractors/manufacturers. I'm with pjandyho in wishing that we knew who this was, solely so that I could do the only thing a consumer can ... vote with my wallet. However, I understand you taking the high road and not identifying them.
I am looking forward to seeing what you have "behind the curtain"; the advances that you mentioned in your first post in this thread.
Thanks for your post. I appreciate you taking the time to do so. I've been a 4sevens purchaser/user for a long time, and recently got my brother interested in the new generation of LED flashlights. (He's still using the Arc AAA I gave him a long time ago.) He tried to sneak out with my Preon. I think you'll have another customer soon.
Sorry to hear about the unscrupulous contractors/manufacturers. I'm with pjandyho in wishing that we knew who this was, solely so that I could do the only thing a consumer can ... vote with my wallet. However, I understand you taking the high road and not identifying them.
I am looking forward to seeing what you have "behind the curtain"; the advances that you mentioned in your first post in this thread.
jerrysimons
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I still want to know, they can shove it you know where! I'll buy a Revo off CPFM for a premium before I buy a ripoff, contract infringed --- (want to avoid violating forum policies).
"Already I can tell you some of our prototype concepts leaked out because a contractor in asia couldn't keep their mouth shut. There are two lights that have been announced and suggested as a concept on cpf that were ripped off from our idea we prototyped over a year ago."
It seems to me from David's post that the announcement made on cpf concerning one or both of the light concepts that were subsequently jacked must have been seen by some one who remembers. I tried a search, but nothing found. Or is it that the concept was announced on cpf by the company who took the idea from the contractor who leaked it?
:rock: on 4Sevens!
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Did they really have trouble selling them? I don't remember seeing them marked down before they all went out of stock.
No argument there. They have to make the decisions that are right for them. If those decisions are right for us, too, then that's great!
--flatline
Well, after hearing from David I'm glad I was able to snag one of the last SS Preons in the U.S. etail channel. I got it today. Works great, has the standard S2 greenish tint, and the LED is just a hair off center. But I'm keeping it. It's already on my keychain.
The problem of manufacturing control in China is alive and well in another high end field - audio. Many companies wanting to provide higher end audio equipment at more reasonable prices have been building their gear in China for a number of years now. Early on there were many reports in the high end rags about these guys getting very upset with unapproved parts substitutions, counterfeit parts, and proprietary designs being sold by their in-country partners. Many of these companies now have much more of a hands on presence in China to keep this kind of stuff from happening.
I'm not saying anything that hasn't been documented in the past few years by both Stereophile and The Absolute Sound, BTW. I further make no implications which could be misinterpreted as political or ethnic in any way, shape, or form. I feel sorry for 4Sevens having to have dealt with what sounds like problems along similar lines.
The problem of manufacturing control in China is alive and well in another high end field - audio. Many companies wanting to provide higher end audio equipment at more reasonable prices have been building their gear in China for a number of years now. Early on there were many reports in the high end rags about these guys getting very upset with unapproved parts substitutions, counterfeit parts, and proprietary designs being sold by their in-country partners. Many of these companies now have much more of a hands on presence in China to keep this kind of stuff from happening.
I'm not saying anything that hasn't been documented in the past few years by both Stereophile and The Absolute Sound, BTW. I further make no implications which could be misinterpreted as political or ethnic in any way, shape, or form. I feel sorry for 4Sevens having to have dealt with what sounds like problems along similar lines.
