Quality issues with UltraFire 18650

WildChild

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 26, 2005
Messages
1,424
Location
Québec, Canada
They are on their way out. When they can't hold 4.0V (~80% charge) they have had it. You may find they are heating up a bit on the charger, due to increased internal resistance; but one way or another, it doesn't look as if they are going to last you much longer.

5 cycles. What a great record. I'm sorry to say it, but you wasted your money there. Where did you get them?

I knew they could be crap when I bought those UltraFire... I got them from DX. They have never been overcharged nor overdischarged. They don't heat at all when charging. I'll wait until they lose a little more capacity and I'll buy a few AW cells.
 

DM51

Flashaholic
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Messages
13,338
Location
Borg cube #51
I knew they could be crap when I bought those UltraFire... I got them from DX. They have never been overcharged nor overdischarged. They don't heat at all when charging. I'll wait until they lose a little more capacity and I'll buy a few AW cells.
Yes, AW is your man.

Now, how about we both go back to that other thread to try and persuade that guy not to buy cells via eBay?
 

WildChild

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 26, 2005
Messages
1,424
Location
Québec, Canada
Yes, AW is your man.

Now, how about we both go back to that other thread to try and persuade that guy not to buy cells via eBay?

It's not the same thing... The Ultrafire were known to be bad... On eBay it's different and if he gets crap, he can be refunded fast... And out of 15 orders I made on batteries, I never got any counterfeit.
 
Last edited:

coppertrail

Enlightened
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
920
I just discovered some problems with 2 of the 4 ultrafire cells I purchased back in May. I've only charged them once and they've not even been put through a full discharge.

My MRV stopped working so I took a UF 18650 from another light and it works fine. Pulled my spare 18650 from the fridge and it too doesn't work in any of my lights, even after being charged for 2 hours. I'm going to request 2 replacement cells from DX.
 

NoFair

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 22, 2004
Messages
1,556
Location
Norway
I've had about 20% of my Ultrafire cells been duds. These are 14500 and 16340s. My 18650s are Panasonic and Sanyo.

The Ultrafires have been dead out of the box or not taken charge after the first use. The others have performed well and hold their charge well..
Runtimes seem decent, but I don't think they have the stated capacity. They claim more or as much as the quality brands:ironic:

Mine are all unprotected. Don't think I'd trust these protection circuits anyway;)

Sverre
 

WildChild

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 26, 2005
Messages
1,424
Location
Québec, Canada
I received today 2 UltraFire 18650 from DX in replacement for the 2 others I bought back in july from them that were showing signs of age. When I received them, I read 3.84V with my DMM. Those 2 old are working correctly, they charges up to around 4.18V every times, I never overdischarged them and they never heated while discharging nor while charging. Maybe I was just lucky with them. ;)

I don't have the time to test the newer yet but they are different. They are a bit longer, there are a few physical differences, shrink wrap is of a different shade of gray and the text on them is also different. They read 3.90V and 3.91V. I'll post pictures next week to show the differences and I'll also make a "naked eye" runtime test with both type. By "naked eye", I mean that I'll make a runtime test until I see a drop in output when the circuit of my Wolf-Eyes Defender II gets out of regulation. I don't have a lightmeter so I cannot do better than that. I'll let you know!

When the old ones are charged, they hit around 4.18V and they drop within around 30 minutes to around 4.10V. I have one that has been charged about 3 weeks ago and it now gives 4.03V. Is it a normal drop? Does the protection circuit draw current?

Thanks
 

Tubor

Enlightened
Joined
Sep 6, 2007
Messages
256
Location
Brighton, UK
I bought a UF charger and 3 x UF Protected 14500's and 4 x UF unprotected 10440's from ebay (ultrafire-store). The Protected ones were not protected at all (wrong type - I'm still trying to get my money back and they won't answer any of my emails) and out of the three, only one was in a usable state - 3.5V - so I re-charged it and it works. I would say it's near the 80% capacity threshold though, if not past it.

The 10440's work OK but will bottom out (voltage drops very low, very quickly) if used in a demanding way (Liteflux LF2 on maximum for example) so I'm loath to use them.

Bought some replacements from AW and the batteries are SO much better, physically, sustained voltage, much longer runtimes, it's been a BIG relief buying from him. 10/10
 

WildChild

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 26, 2005
Messages
1,424
Location
Québec, Canada
Here are the pictures of the old and new Ultrafire 18650:

Old on left, new on right:
img3067fy6.jpg

New on top, old on bottom. There is a 2nd ring we can see on the shrink wrap, on the bottom of the crimping on the new that the old doesn't have:
img3069gh6.jpg

Old on left, new on right:
img3070am7.jpg

New on top, old on bottom:
img3071sr3.jpg

New on top, old on bottom:
img3071qi9.jpg

New on left, old on right. We can see that the newer is slightly taller:
img3073su9.jpg


I charged tonight an old one. It came out of the charger at 4.20V then dropped to 4.15V within 30 minutes. The two new ones are at 4.20V one day after charging. I'll probably make a runtime test with a Wolf-Eyes Defender II next week-end.

SilverFox, what kind did you test?
 
Last edited:

mdocod

Flashaholic
Joined
Nov 9, 2005
Messages
7,544
Location
COLORado spRINGs
The fact that almost everyone is reporting voltage loss after the charge with relatively new cells says a lot. I think this by itself is a good reason to avoid them all-together.
 

VidPro

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Messages
5,441
Location
Lost In Space
When the old ones are charged, they hit around 4.18V and they drop within around 30 minutes to around 4.10V. I have one that has been charged about 3 weeks ago and it now gives 4.03V. Is it a normal drop? Does the protection circuit draw current?

Thanks

the quick drop off the charger (4.18-4.10) doesnt prove much, SAY the charger was charging at a good rate, then pulled , the battery was not nessiarily AT the 4.18v rested , but only high when the charge was recentally applied.

If the charge was the type that completly flattens out the current at the end of charge, and the charge and the battery have ~0 differential, then a drop like that would be noticably bad.

its hard to explain, but if you used a constant voltage , and waited till there was almost 0 current flow (concidered trickle topping) then a drop in 1/2 hour like that would be abnormal. the fully topped cell would be definatly at 4.18v , not just recentally had power applied to it, like what usually occurs. It is important to note differences in how its charged, because this could cause differences in the data people are referring to, vrses the cell actually taking a dive like that.

So it rested after charge, and went down to the actual rested voltage it was charged to ~4.10v , if you knew the Current rate that was occuring when it was at 4.18v , you could determine how much of that was just "hot off the charger" voltage.

so then if we assume it was charged to a rested ~4.10v, 3 weeks to the 4.0 would be the self discharge rate. of course the discharge rate would include any power that the protection curcuit used too.

one way I (here) will test UNprotected, is let them come down to Rested voltages off the charger , like your 30-60 minutes. then right after that you can assume that its charged TO that point rested. from there the self discharge itself can be determined, any influence from recent charging doesnt change your results.
So i charge it, test it rested, then test it in a few hours or a day, if the voltage is sinking fast, then the battery is not good. some will sink so fast , you can watch it drop on the meter, those are Really bad :)

an unprotected good cell can read so minor a deviation from its RESTED charged voltage as to be off by .01-.03v after 3 weeks. a bad one more like .1-.3 in the same 3 weeks Unprotected, protection can add to the discharge, i dont know how much, or whos protection adds how much.

that is a long way of saying your 4.18 was not nessisarily a rested voltage, because it would be a lot if it was.

Your pictures are cool , shows 2 different batteries, cause the vent holes are different. (if they are both bottom protection, which it looks like)
 
Last edited:

DM51

Flashaholic
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Messages
13,338
Location
Borg cube #51
so then if we assume it was charged to a rested ~4.10v, 3 weeks to the 4.0 would be the self discharge rate. of course the discharge rate would include any power that the protection curcuit used too.
I agree that if the charger did not complete the CV phase, the voltage might drop to ~4.1V or some figure like that. This drop should occur within 30 mins, and then settle.

However there should not then be as serious a drop as a further 0.1V, to 4.0V, within as little as 3 weeks. I would regard that as an abnormally high self-discharge rate, something in the order of 10x what should normally be expected.
 

VidPro

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Messages
5,441
Location
Lost In Space
yes must be around 10% a month, i dont have the handy dandy chart thing, so i used this http://pdfserv.maxim-ic.com/en/an/AN121.pdf
If say it was at ~1100, then it would be at ~1000 from the .1V drop.
with li-ion you can get a fair idea of the capacity from its rested voltages.

but that is so bad, i doubt my math, not that i wouldnt doubt my math anyway :)
 

DM51

Flashaholic
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Messages
13,338
Location
Borg cube #51
Lol, your math seems OK to me. I think the point is, the drop from 4.2V to 4.1V is reasonable if the CV phase of the charge wasn't completed, but the further 10% drop to 4.0V is NOT reasonable, and indicates a really lousy-quality cell. 10% SD per month is unacceptable. 10% per YEAR would be more in line with what might be expected.
 

WildChild

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 26, 2005
Messages
1,424
Location
Québec, Canada
Runtime completed with one old cell: ~57 minutes, 3.3V open voltage right after, before I noticed a drop in output and a drop in flashlight temperature (it was cooler than in the middle of the test...). The cell was charged yesterday.

[edit]After around 20 minutes, the cell came back to 3.73V.[/edit]

This is much less than the runtime shown there:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/168873

I'm doing right now the runtime test with a new UltraFire cell. This one was charged 2 days ago. Reading 4.19V open voltage. I did not measure the open voltage of the old cell before doing the runtime test.
 
Last edited:

WildChild

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 26, 2005
Messages
1,424
Location
Québec, Canada
Runtime on the newer cell:

Still running and bright. At 2h01, I made a quick pause and measured 3.66V.
[edit]2h18, 3.60V, still running and bright.[/edit]
[edit]2h30, 3.44V. I stopped the test! The one I used for the 56 minutes runtime test just finished charging. It came out of the charger at 4.15V.[/edit]
[last edit]After 20 minutes, the newer one recovered to 3.6V. The old one that has just been charged dropped to 4.12V.[/last edit]


I charged the old one that was in use. It was at 3.91V. Charged to 4.16V then dropped fast to 4.05V. Older ones are definitly crap! I don't know how many cycles the newer one will last... But yet, they are much better!
 
Last edited:

Tidra

Enlightened
Joined
Nov 10, 2006
Messages
211
Location
Slovenia - EU
Hmmmmmm,...

I should read this first and then order Ultrafire Charger with 2x18650 from Ebay of course.

There is something else I quite don't understand. Protections for this cells is set to low 2.75V and high 4.2V.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ultrafire-Charger-Rechargeable-18650-Protected-Battery_W0QQitemZ220178820036QQihZ012QQcategoryZ50603QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Isn't this low a little to low???

What is the reasonable low discharge voltage limit for this kind of cell?

Thank you
Iztok
 

SilverFox

Flashaholic
Joined
Jan 19, 2003
Messages
12,449
Location
Bellingham WA
Hello Iztok,

Under a 2 amp load, 2.75 volts for a low voltage cut off is acceptable. 3.0 volts is better. The idea of the cell protection circuit is to shut down the cell before too much damage has been done to the cell. The circuit that you use the cell in should be responsible for the circuit shut down. If the circuit shut down fails, the cell shut down is a back up safety.

In actual practice, you should recharge often and never have the "opportunity" to bump into the low voltage shut off.

Tom
 

Latest posts

Top