Really basic question

[tnforever]

^^ Thanks for the help, that's what I really needed to know about Halogen bulbs...

It's immensely difficult finding 6-cell Maglite Krypton bulbs, the closest TCS is an hour+ drive away in Gilroy... at that rate I'd rather get a Xenon bulb at Fry's for $3.20

If you have another source where I can get 4+ cell Krypton bulbs I'd appreciate it!

How well can I overdrive a 3-cell Krypton bulb in a 6v lantern? or should I stick to a 4-cell?

 

[Howecollc]

Oddly, TSC carries the 6 cell Krypton, but not the 5 cell. The cop supply store where I got my 5 cell Xenons didn't carry any 6 cell Xenons, but had every other size; seems to be a crap-shoot everywhere. Other than your local cop supply house, I don't know anywhere else locally that carries the 5 and 6 cell bulbs. OpticsPlanet.com carries all the Mag bulbs and much more for excellent prices, and most importantly, offers free shipping on orders over $30.00. If you were maybe in the market for a 2C Mag for an economical $15.00 along with some bulbs, then getting your order up to $30.00 might not be too difficult.

I used to use one of those fluorescent/incandescent/flasher lights in my tent when camping. The 6 batteries are definitely in series, so a 6 cell bulb is what you need. The Mag Xenon is going to look a lot whiter than a Krypton, as evidenced by this picture. Not to mention the Mag will pull .84 amps and the stock bulb probably pulls less than .4 amps. You could also overdrive the Philips HPX-53 Xenon 5 cell bulb, which can be had for $4.25 a 2 pack plus free shipping (use coupon code FALL).

The 3 cell Krypton is going to be much brighter than the 4 cell with a 6v lantern battery, and should last at least as long as mine with 2xCR123s. I've used my 3 cell thru one and a half sets of batteries so far, and there are quite a few people on CPF running 4 C cells in 3D lights with 3 cell bulbs.

 

[tnforever]

Hey all, back again, just a quick question, for a bunch of batteries arranged in series, the current drained is identical amongst the batteries, correct?

ie, 3 cells at 1.2V are being drained by a bulb rated 3.6V 0.5A, each cell is being drained at a rate at 0.5A, assuming each cell is identical, correct?

 

[Howecollc]

That is correct.

 

[tnforever]

Hey, whlie you here, I hope I can catch you for some quicker responses, I've sort of made my decision for my lights, I'd appreciate it if you can critique them.

2AA-2D lights - 2AA bulbs ~2.2-2.3V ~0.6A, or should I stick to 2.4V 0.5A bulbs? Or just get a Magnum Star, or a Xenon from Dorcy?

I have a lot of 2D lights, and while your light really seems awesome, I both want to use the D cells in them already. However, if I do decide to do an elementary mod, I will definitely try your mod out.

3D lights, again either a Magnum Star or a Dorcy Xenon, is there a difference between them? Dorcy has them for $2/2 and Mag sells them for $3 each!

6V Lantern - I will run it off the extra 3 cell Mag bulbs I have, along with the 4.8v bulb that came with it, since I have no use for it.

6D lights - probably a 5 cell Maglite bulb

Anyway, these are still preliminary, I'm just really curious about the Xenon bulbs.

Your suggestion of Lithiums are also good, I would love to get some , but I'd have to get AA-D adapters too... I can't believe the discharge curve they offer, but I'll have to look for the runtime, and cost vs. normal D cells, as well as against normal AA cells...

Finally, anywhere I can get 3AA/4AA to D cell adapters?

And also, I had a brainwave, after looking at discharge curves, I see that alkaline batteries actually have a decent lifespan left in them even down to the 0.9-1.0v level, what if I swapped out a bulb rated 1 cell less in them after they've dimmed on the stock bulb, how will performance be like?

ie, a 3 cell light will run 3.6v over its useful life, but then it'll drop to 3.0V or so, at which time the 3.6v bulb will look dim and orange, what if I then swapped out a 2.4v bulb into it?

I can't believe I've caught onto this more than LEDs... just trying to figure out all these bulbs took so much more time than figuring out a LED light to buy, but it's pretty interesting!

 

[TorchBoy]

ie, 3 cells at 1.2V are being drained by a bulb rated 3.6V 0.5A, each cell is being drained at a rate at 0.5A, assuming each cell is identical, correct?

The cells don't even have to be identical. You could put a NiMH cell in series with a Li-ion and you'd get the same current flowing through both... at least, that is, until one went .

Finally, anywhere I can get 3AA/4AA to D cell adapters?

With the AA cells in series or parallel?

 

[TorchBoy]

And also, I had a brainwave, after looking at discharge curves, I see that alkaline batteries actually have a decent lifespan left in them even down to the 0.9-1.0v level, what if I swapped out a bulb rated 1 cell less in them after they've dimmed on the stock bulb, how will performance be like?

I can't see any point in it - I use NiMH which have a much less variable voltage while discharging than alkaline. Swapping bulbs twice for every set of batteries swapped means a lot of swapping. If you really want to use alkalines, I'd say it would be better to transfer the half dead cells into a different torch with a lower voltage bulb.

 

[tnforever]

The cells don't even have to be identical. You could put a NiMH cell in series with a Li-ion and you'd get the same current flowing through both... at least, that is, until one went .


With the AA cells in series or parallel?

erm either, I assume series is for ultimate brightness and parallel is for increased runtimes?

 

[tnforever]

I can't see any point in it - I use NiMH which have a much less variable voltage while discharging than alkaline. Swapping bulbs twice for every set of batteries swapped means a lot of swapping. If you really want to use alkalines, I'd say it would be better to transfer the half dead cells into a different torch with a lower voltage bulb.

I don't really want to duse alkalnes
its just that alkalines are what's in the lights right now. These lights re actually all my family's and just sits in a closet for power outages, and seeing as outages have occurred during the night just once in recent memory (2.5 years ago) and probably no more than 2-3 times since I've lived here (past 12 years, I can't even remember the time before that, I remember there was a time before that, but have no idea when it was), I don't see the point in upgrading them too much, it's just that some of them now have half dead cells i'd like to finish off.

After this I'll probably fill them with some AA lithiums... they're cheaper than NiMH, and I have NiMHs in all the lights that I actually use. I'd just have to get a boatload of AA>D adapters, and thought why not find some multi-AA>D adapters while I'm at it to increase the quality of the lights.

After this time, I might just go ahead and get all the half used cells and drain them on purpose and get rid of them, part of the reason I might get a nite-ize LED for the dead cells, and some good incan bulbs before they die all the way... eg, my brother actually has a pair of use by 2002 duracell cells that actually put out a very usable (esp when focused) 15 lumens still with the LED module, but doesnt fire up with a normal bulb, I want to take those off his hands and finish them off... I might run them in series with an incan bulb, and when that dies too I'll use an LED to finish it off.

I might go real anal and make a list of all the lights i have, etc...

 

[Howecollc]

Sorry for not getting back sooner.

2AA-2D lights - 2AA bulbs ~2.2-2.3V ~0.6A, or should I stick to 2.4V 0.5A bulbs? Or just get a Magnum Star, or a Xenon from Dorcy? At voltage this low, it doesn't really seem to make much difference. It's hard to get much light out of 2.4v, short of using the Nite Ize LED drop-in. I once tried a 2.4v 1.2A Krypton bulb, but the results were pretty lame.

I have a lot of 2D lights, and while your light really seems awesome, I both want to use the D cells in them already. However, if I do decide to do an elementary mod, I will definitely try your mod out.

3D lights, again either a Magnum Star or a Dorcy Xenon, is there a difference between them? Dorcy has them for $2/2 and Mag sells them for $3 each! Someone else here on CPF once had good things to say about those KPR-103 Oscillite Bulbs. I'd give them a try.

6V Lantern - I will run it off the extra 3 cell Mag bulbs I have, along with the 4.8v bulb that came with it, since I have no use for it. Good plan. One thing to note; If your Mag bulbs are older than about 10 years, they will pull around .70 amps as opposed to .82 amps for the newer bulbs.

6D lights - probably a 5 cell Maglite bulb. Good; 5 cell Mag Xenon will be quite a bit whiter than either 5 cell Mag Krypton or 5 cell HPX-53 Xenon.

Anyway, these are still preliminary, I'm just really curious about the Xenon bulbs. The Mag Xenons tend to be whiter than than other brand Xenons; but considering the low prices of some of the Dorcy Xenons, the slight color difference may not be worth the extra money.

Your suggestion of Lithiums are also good, I would love to get some, but I'd have to get AA-D adapters too... I can't believe the discharge curve they offer, but I'll have to look for the runtime, and cost vs. normal D cells, as well as against normal AA cells...

Finally, anywhere I can get 3AA/4AA to D cell adapters? I'll let someone else handle this one, as I've never bought any.

And also, I had a brainwave, after looking at discharge curves, I see that alkaline batteries actually have a decent lifespan left in them even down to the 0.9-1.0v level, what if I swapped out a bulb rated 1 cell less in them after they've dimmed on the stock bulb, how will performance be like?

ie, a 3 cell light will run 3.6v over its useful life, but then it'll drop to 3.0V or so, at which time the 3.6v bulb will look dim and orange, what if I then swapped out a 2.4v bulb into it? I've never thought of that before, but it seems a reasonable idea. I don't know what kind of current draw a battery in that depleted state could support, so I think I would stay with .5 amp draw or less 2.4v bulbs.

I can't believe I've caught onto this more than LEDs... just trying to figure out all these bulbs took so much more time than figuring out a LED light to buy, but it's pretty interesting!

 

[TorchBoy]

erm either, I assume series is for ultimate brightness and parallel is for increased runtimes?

Yes.

http://aventrade.com/baad.html lists a 4xAA parallel to D adaptor. KaiDomain used to have a low quality (ie, high contact resistance) 3xAA series to D adaptor but they don't like people to actually be able to find their products (if they even have it any more). Hm... I made a note of it somewhere... Ah: http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=2723

I might go real anal and make a list of all the lights i have, etc...

Anywhere but here, that idea would sound sooo weird. :tinfoil:

 

[tnforever]

Great, I'll work on getting some of those, as well as some normal D>AA adapters... I can get those for ~$1.50 a piece at Fry's, am I gonna find a better price online?

 

[tnforever]

2AA-2D lights - 2AA bulbs ~2.2-2.3V ~0.6A, or should I stick to 2.4V 0.5A bulbs? Or just get a Magnum Star, or a Xenon from Dorcy?

At voltage this low, it doesn't really seem to make much difference. It's hard to get much light out of 2.4v, short of using the Nite Ize LED drop-in. I once tried a 2.4v 1.2A Krypton bulb, but the results were pretty lame.

Yea, I thought so, unfortunately half of my lights are 2D... I'm thinking of converting one of them into a 6AA and coupling it with a 5-cell bulb, keep one as an LED... and I dunno what I'm going to do with the other one... will a Xenon improve the quality of the light?

I also have a 2AA light, this is the light I'm most annoyed at... I put a pair of NiMH in them and the output still sucks.

I have a lot of 2D lights, and while your light really seems awesome, I both want to use the D cells in them already. However, if I do decide to do an elementary mod, I will definitely try your mod out.

3D lights, again either a Magnum Star or a Dorcy Xenon, is there a difference between them? Dorcy has them for $2/2 and Mag sells them for $3 each! Someone else here on CPF once had good things to say about those KPR-103 Oscillite Bulbs. I'd give them a try.

What are Oscillite bulbs? I only have 2 lights that run off 3D... how well can I overdrive a 2.4V bulb on 3 cells (I'll find out anyway, I have some 2.4V bulbs to spare). I'll order a pair of Xenon's from Dorcy and try them out for my Maglite.

6V Lantern - I will run it off the extra 3 cell Mag bulbs I have, along with the 4.8v bulb that came with it, since I have no use for it. Good plan. One thing to note; If your Mag bulbs are older than about 10 years, they will pull around .70 amps as opposed to .82 amps for the newer bulbs.

6D lights - probably a 5 cell Maglite bulb. Good; 5 cell Mag Xenon will be quite a bit whiter than either 5 cell Mag Krypton or 5 cell HPX-53 Xenon.

Anyway, these are still preliminary, I'm just really curious about the Xenon bulbs. The Mag Xenons tend to be whiter than than other brand Xenons; but considering the low prices of some of the Dorcy Xenons, the slight color difference may not be worth the extra money.

Your suggestion of Lithiums are also good, I would love to get some, but I'd have to get AA-D adapters too... I can't believe the discharge curve they offer, but I'll have to look for the runtime, and cost vs. normal D cells, as well as against normal AA cells...

Finally, anywhere I can get 3AA/4AA to D cell adapters? I'll let someone else handle this one, as I've never bought any.

And also, I had a brainwave, after looking at discharge curves, I see that alkaline batteries actually have a decent lifespan left in them even down to the 0.9-1.0v level, what if I swapped out a bulb rated 1 cell less in them after they've dimmed on the stock bulb, how will performance be like?

ie, a 3 cell light will run 3.6v over its useful life, but then it'll drop to 3.0V or so, at which time the 3.6v bulb will look dim and orange, what if I then swapped out a 2.4v bulb into it? I've never thought of that before, but it seems a reasonable idea. I don't know what kind of current draw a battery in that depleted state could support, so I think I would stay with .5 amp draw or less 2.4v bulbs.

I can't believe I've caught onto this more than LEDs... just trying to figure out all these bulbs took so much more time than figuring out a LED light to buy, but it's pretty interesting!

Thanks so far for all the help... I think I'm really going to mak a list of all the bulbs and lights I have...to organizze and see what I should really be buying... and I still need a D battery vampire... probably going to be a LED module...

 

[Howecollc]

I once tried a Mag Xenon in my 2D and while the light was a little more white, it's just not that noticeable of a difference due to the light being so dim in the first place. The difference between Xenon and Krypton becomes greater the higher you go up in power.

I believe what they mean by oscillate bulb is that it's an axial bulb, meaning it has a filament that is arranged vertically instead of horizontally. This makes it throw a more perfectly rounded spot.

2.4v bulbs run at 3.6v usually flash instantly or very shortly thereafter; too much overdrive.

 

[TorchBoy]

... some normal D>AA adapters...

You mean AA to D. It's a bit hard to fit the other way. :thumbsup:

2xAA to D: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.22082

 

[tnforever]

Hey I just had another thought, my physics is a bit outdated, so I need some confirmation.

Connecting cells in parallel means that voltage is the same, but current is shared, right? So in theory, connected multiple cells in parallel will allow higher currents to be sustained even if they're alkalines?

How does connecting AA cells in parallel compare to a D cell? I just had this thought because D cells are $1/piece even when they're on sale, while Costco cells (not the best, but fine for normal use) are only around $.25 a piece, and that would allow me to downsize the different kinds of batteries that I have.

 

[lctorana]

How does connecting AA cells in parallel compare to a D cell?

Doable, but a very poor substitute.

 

[TorchBoy]

Connecting cells in parallel means that voltage is the same, but current is shared, right? So in theory, connected multiple cells in parallel will allow higher currents to be sustained even if they're alkalines?

Yes. Alkaline cells don't handle higher currents very well, so their capacity is reduced as load increases. By using two or more cells in parallel you spread the load, thereby increasing the capacity of each cell. And because you have multiple cells in parallel you increase the total capacity accordingly. NiMH cells don't have their capacity reduced anywhere near as much by heavier loads.

I think the main reasons for doing it is because either you simply don't have any D cells or you want to save weight. From the spec sheets, even 4xAA in parallel don't come close to the capacity of a D cell.

 

[tnforever]

Well I'm a bit annoyed, I can't for the life of me find 5-cell Krypton bulbs. Lowes has 2,3,4 cell bulbs, OSH has the 6 cell bulbs, plus Xenon bulbs, and Home Depot have Xenon bulbs too, plus some energizer bulbs...

Very annoying...according to the maglite site, they sell them at target, but I've looked in the flashlight and the light bulb section and can't find them...

Where can I find those Oscillated bulbs? I'll get them if they're cheaper than a Xenon.

As to the batteries, well how would a 2/3AA Lithium set up compare to a D set up, would the gains (if any) be worth it? Like I said, these are emergency lights, so I won't be using NiMH cells in them, since Lithium cells will be much lower maintenance and cost less.

It doesn't sound like a AA>D converter is worth it after all, unless I"m doing a series set up.

Still want a battery KO'er... looks more and more like LED is the only way to go...

 

[TorchBoy]

My father uses some AA to D adaptors in a multi D cell radio that has a very low current draw. He's slowly working his way through a stockpile of semi-dead AA cells that run it fine.