Recommend a bulb for recessed cans in a 2-story great room (please!)

[othersteve]

Hey guys,

Been around for quite some time here, but I have a totally different subject on my hands now. Thank you in advance for providing your expertise.

We are building a home and will have a 2-story great room with probably six recessed lights. I plan to outfit them with LED bulbs so that I am not tasked with frequently replacing them, and plus, they'll be on a lot.

I'm wondering what the best bulb to go with is (brand, specs, etc). I would prefer something close to the typical "warm white". Not sure if it makes sense to go with a BR40/100W equivalent or something less?

Thus far, for sake of price/performace, I was thinking along these lines:

http://www.costco.com/Feit-Electric...0701&keyword=br40+led&langId=-1&storeId=10301

Thank you!

 

[Geogecko]

I've been very happy with the EcoSmart brand from Home Depot. I believe that most, if not all, of them are made by Lighting Science Group, which is a US company. I have 7 of their downlight modules installed in my kitchen (the most used lights in the house), for probably 3 years now, on an Insteon automation dimmer, without any issues. (http://www.homedepot.com/p/EcoSmart...D-Downlight-E-ECO-575L/202240932#.UU_AbFcy4kQ). These provide just as much light as the 75W bulbs they replaced, and are exactly the same color (2700K). These may or may not provide enough light for your two story room though, however, this similar bulb to the one you listed, is about 1/3rd the cost. I'd give it a go, just buy one and see how you like it. What I did was install regular incandescent bulbs, and then bought one of a couple different types of LED bulbs, to see if I could match, or improve, the light output/color. Take them back if they aren't what you want. Keep a box or something where you keep your light bulbs, with all the receipts. These are expensive, and if one goes bad before the warranty expires, take it back. Some of them have 5 year warranties. I have yet to have a failure, and I have 9 A19 versions as well (4 of which, are outside).

http://www.homedepot.com/p/EcoSmart...lb-ECS-BR40-W27-FL-120/202670532#.UU-_z1cy4kQ

 

[Geogecko]

More about Lighting Science Group: http://www.lsgc.com/

 

[LEDninja]

Recessed fixtures trap heat and heat kills LED bulbs. My experience with closed top fixtures is they last 15,000 hours (1 year 10 months 24/7). Not the 50,000 hours often touted. (The LED lasts 50,000+ hours, the driver/electronics does not.)
The bulb you were looking at has the heat sink on top. The heat stays in the can and cooks the bulb until it dies.
Fixtures specially designed for recessed cans have the heat sink on the bottom. The heat gets dumped into the room. (I suggest going for a 6 inch can / Cree CR6 over a 4 inch can / CR4 just for the bigger heatsink.)

Since this is a new build, not a bulb replacement, i suggest you look at equipment specially designed for recessed fixtures.
http://store.earthled.com/collections/led-recessed-lighting-led-can-lights
Note none of them are a traditional 'bulb'.
How to install Cree's CR6 LED downlight‬‏ - YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UKP_lvzY3A
You do not need to mail order from EarthLED. Home depot is carrying the CR6 (for 6 inch cans) and CR4 (for 4 inch cans). 1st link on post #2.
The LR6 series are twice as expensive, but give you more brightness and tint options. Cree's website has a dealer finder.

The Glimpse is a flush mount that can fit in a recessed can. It is not true recessed.
Lighting science bulbs including some Ecosmart models emit too much RF. They killed TV reception in my case. Others complain about radio reception. There is also a major safety recall due to fire hazard.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?357798-LED-Bulb-Recall-Overheating-Fire-Danger

-

The CR6 is only a 65W equivalent so you may have to increase the number of cans or go with the high output version of the LR6.

If you do go with BR/PAR bulbs I have read that the BR40/PAR38 bulbs extra heat / lack of air circulation due to the size of the bulbs make them die twice as fast as the BR30 / PAR 30 bulbs. Again due to the lower wattage of the smaller bulbs you will need extra cans.

HEAT MANAGEMENT is the key to avoid changing LED bulbs too often.

One other thing. Most warm / soft white LED bulbs are 80 CRI (Colour 80% as accurate as as an incandescent of the same colour temperature)
The Cree CR6 / LR6 have CRI 0f 90+. Most people do not notice the difference.
Most other LED bulbs use yellow LEDs. Cree added some red LEDs.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...cs-of-HD-EcoSmart-65W-(Cree-Cr6)-light-engine

 

[Geogecko]

^^^ Agree with LEDninja.

I think the downlights provide a lot nicer, finished look as well. The video install looks like a lot is involved in installing them, but they really go rather smoothly after the first one. For mine, I had to remove the finish ring around the outside (unhook two springs), then one wing nut to remove the mounting bracket, then pinch the hooks that attach the socket to the bracket, and remove the bracket all together. Then you are left with a loose A19 socket, which you screw into the downlight. Swing the wings of the downlight out, and push up into the fixture, and you're done.

The EcoSmart versions I have dim very well, and don't seem to produce any noise that I can hear.

I am interested in more information about RF noise, because it seems right around the time I replaced these, that my garage door opener has seemed to have intermittent range issues. However, I don't know that they are related, because the range issue still shows up when all lights in the house are turned off, to that leads me to believe it is something else causing the issue, and the garage door opener next to the one that has the problem, is the same brand, and haven't had any issues with it at all...

Man, makes me a little mad. The EcoSmart versions of those downlights I bought about 3 years ago were $50 a piece, now they are $30!

 

[purduephotog]

Definitely the CR6 - however, they are only 600 lumens. The new 1000 lumen units will be available soon, supposedly.

There is the LR6-DR available in 1000 lumens- and color smart- but it's about 8x the cost (120$) and doesn't dim as well as the CR6 units from HD.

I have them extensively in my house and have been very pleased with everything. If you DO go the CR6 unit, go online and model the light from the lights- you might need 9 lights.

 

[othersteve]

Wow, thanks a lot for the extremely detailed feedback guys.

Just a couple of things (and questions) to note in reply:

1) @ Geo: Actually it is a 4-pack that I linked to of the Feit Electric, so they are only ~$23/ea.

2) @ Both: Thanks so much for the detailed recommendations. My only real question is what do I do if these happen to fail? It seems as though replacement of these fixtures would actually be even more trouble than simply getting regular flood bulbs... right? After all, if we plan to be in the home for 15 - 20 years, we can probably expect to have to replace them at least a couple times before we move out. I realize that the energy savings is another story entirely, but if I will have to hire an electrician to replace the fixture itself anyway...

What I mean is, with a regular bulb, I can simply use one of those bulb changer extensions to remove/replace the bulb, but with this, I actually have to have someone get up there with a ladder.

Thanks again,

Steve

 

[iwolf81]

I installed Cree CR6 downlights in a dozen existing 6" cans in our basement man-cave/play-room. The light is very bright and comfortable (2700k, cri 90), and works well with a dimmer. I got great deals on them though my electric company at ~$25 each.

Regards,
Ira

 

[Geogecko]

Ah, missed the 4x detail, sorry about that.

Yes, you are right, you'd have to have access via a ladder or some other method. They are easy to install/uninstall, however, not from 20'+ in the air. The EcoSmart Downlights are rated at lasting 35,000 hours. Based on 8 hours a day, 365 days a year, that's almost 12 years, if everything holds out that long. I'd venture to say you probably wouldn't have them on that long, with vacations, etc. By then, you'd probably want to replace them with something else anyway, perhaps.

Just an option, but this past year, I rented a bucket lift to install Christmas lights on the outside of my house. The ~$150 it cost me was worth knowing I wouldn't be spending way more than that on medical bills if I fell from a ladder. I believe that Home Depot also rents those motorized scissor lifts (don't know if they come on a trailer, or what), but that would be an option to install them, and perhaps replace them, you just don't want to be renting that thing to replace one at a time...that's for sure. Also probably want to make sure and lay something down on the floor before driving that thing in your house...if that's even possible. Might be cheaper to just higher the electrician...

 

[othersteve]

I really, really appreciate everything guys -- seriously. But after kicking this around, I am still thinking that if such a thing exists, I would prefer a standard form factor bulb that I could change with a simple extension tool. Having said that, do such bulbs exist (from CREE for instance with the TrueWhite technology) where the heat sink could effectively dissipate heat without cooking the bulb within the fixture?

I know you guys are experts -- but I am just hung up on the thought of having to rent a lift or hire out simply to change the bulbs in 10 - 15 years or whatever. I know it's a while away, but I'm just thinking that if something comparable exists in a standard bulb, I may instead prefer that.

Now, on the other hand, I may get these for my kitchen, where changeouts would be simple!

Very much appreciated again!

 

[copenhagen]

I needed to replace or convert about 80 can lights. I went to Home Depot and Lowe's and bought a variety of different retro fit kits and BR30 bulbs, mostly warm temperatures, but a few 5000k bulbs. I really wanted to go with the Cree retrofit mentioned above, but I found it only fit in two of the cans out of 80. My house was built in 1993, and for whatever reason, most of them were about .25" too large and the metal fins wouldn't hold the fixture in place.

Between my wife and I, our favorite bulbs were made by Philips. Throughout most of the house and in the kitchen, we went with the 2700k version:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/203314...toreId=10051&N=5yc1v&R=203314446#.UW2x11e4oZQ

In the laundry and a couple of closets we went with the slightly whiter 3000k version:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/203667...toreId=10051&N=5yc1v&R=203667307#.UW2x01e4oZQ

The good: Both versions seem very well made, they put out nice quality light, and are fully dimmable.
The bad: Still kind of expensive, sometimes have a split second of lag coming on, and the commercial packaging is horrible. The come packaged in cardboard and a very heavy clamshell plactic. It generates a ton of waste to open even a dozen bulbs and is somewhat dangerous in the process. I found heavy scissors were the best tool, but you want to also wear some eye protection, because sharp little shards of plastic will sometimes fly.

I tried to order the "frustration free packaging" version on Amazon, but they ended up sending me a bunch of the commercial versions. The rest I have ordered from home depot or picked up in person.

The only bad thing about converting your house over to LED now is that they keep coming out with better and cheaper bulbs! I am really relieved though to have started saving money and to not have to keep up with changing so many burnt out bulbs.

 

[LEDninja]

I have a smaller version of copenhagen's bulbs for my desk / clamp lamps (R20). Will be getting some more.
Agree aboult the "frustration packaging". Grrr.