Review of ThruNite Scorpion V2 with outdoor beamshots

[candle lamp]

You are correct, the V2 also has a o-ring there, I have adjusted the review text.

This light must be using some sort of magic with the tailcap. I can not see more than two connection (Battery and tube), but it does not work if I move the tailcap 4 cm away with extension wires ?

Good for you!
When I first saw the tailcap, I was wondering what is in there at all.
Really hope you find the current draw on batteries at tailcap. Keep your engines high!

Ok, here are my results on 2xCR123A on max, on Titanium Innovations CR123As and Panasonic made-in-USA CR123As, with and without external cooling:

As you can see, cooling didn't make much of a difference on the Panasonic runs - I got ~5 mins to step down without it, and ~6 mins with it. The only real difference cooling seems to make is in the rate of the recovery phase.

So it seems the Panasonic cells can't handle the current load and heat up faster than the Titanium Innovations cells. This is turn either triggers some sort of stepdown circuit/resistor, or causes some sort of battery hiccup.

Interesting .... I've just posted a synopsis of the situation in the batteries/electronics forum. Let's see what the experts there think!

Judging from the above graph, perhaps Selfbuilt could see flickerings for low voltage warning of 2xCR123A cells.
( Maybe it was a just because of circuit? )
I'm still wondering why there is no warning(flickering) in case of 2xIMR16340 cells. There is no sign such as flickerings like CR123As.:thinking:

 

[HKJ]

Judging from the above graph, perhaps Selfbuilt could see flickerings for low voltage warning of 2xCR123A cells.

This can also be seen on my graph.

I'm still wondering why there is no warning(flickering) in case of 2xIMR16340 cells. :thinking:

The low battery warning is at 2.8 volt for two LiIon cells this is way below empty and they can not maintain any voltage for flickering.

 

[candle lamp]

This can also be seen on my graph.

The low battery warning is at 2.8 volt for two LiIon cells this is way below empty and they can not maintain any voltage for flickering.

Yes, I can see the warning in your graph now.

You mentioned that "With two IMR16340 cells the brightness is more stable and it has a decent runtime (35 min), but the light will over discharge them,
because the warning is designed for one cell."
Do you mean that the light doesn't give the low battery warning if I use two IMR or Li-Ion cells or CR123A, ie. any kind of cell?

I'm sorry for giving many questions.

 

[HKJ]

Yes, I can see the warning in your graph now.

You mentioned that "With two IMR16340 cells the brightness is more stable and it has a decent runtime (35 min), but the light will over discharge them,
because the warning is designed for one cell."
Do you mean that the light doesn't give the low battery warning if I use two IMR or Li-Ion cells or CR123A, ie. any kind of cell?

I'm sorry for giving many questions.

The warning is given at a specific voltage (2.8 volt), this is fine for a single LiIon or two 2xCR123, but for two LiIon batteries the voltage is way to low. Two LiIon will be empty at 5 to 6 volt, below that they can not supply any current and will sustain damage.
I hope this explanation makes it clearer.



A little rant: Both IMR (LiMn) and LiCoO2 are LiIon cells, this makes it a bit confusing when your write IMR and Li-Ion. I uses this table in my charger reviews to show LiIon types:

 

[candle lamp]

Thanks a lot. HKJ! :thumbsup:

Also appreciate the table. (I meant li-ion is ICR.)

 

[selfbuilt]

This light must be using some sort of magic with the tailcap. I can not see more than two connection (Battery and tube), but it does not work if I move the tailcap 4 cm away with extension wires ?

When you wrote that, the first thing that popped into my head was that maybe in this case magic = magnetism. Unfortunately, I don't have a strong magnet to test, but it occurred to me that the distance issue could be due to not having the magnets close enough together. If my suspicion is a correct, a strong magnet near the tailcap should disrupt switching behavior.

And as if by another sort of magic, FLT_MEDIC has just posted a detailed commentary on how the switching functions (it is indeed magnetic). See his post #51 here.

Interesting, I checked my cells, on the cells it says EU, but the package says "made in USA", the cells has a 2020 date code.
I wonder if I can make a test to see if it is the batteries or the light. I cannot do it with the Scorpion, but maybe the M31 can be used (But I will hate wasting 3 expensive cells on that test). Doing a run where I log battery voltage, current and brightness would show it. If the battery voltage drops it is due to the battery, if the battery voltage raise it is because the light is throttling down.

Makes sense, sounds interesting. I know the batteries get expensive, but it sounds like a good way to get at the issue.

 

[HKJ]

And as if by another sort of magic, FLT_MEDIC has just posted a detailed commentary on how the switching functions (it is indeed magnetic). See his post #51 here.


Makes sense, sounds interesting. I know the batteries get expensive, but it sounds like a good way to get at the issue.

Magnetic, that makes sense, I will test it later today. This also means that I need to do a couple more measurements for the review.
And as a bonus I only need two CR123 batteries to test if it is battery or light that has problems with heat.

But first I need to find out how the magnetic pattern works.

 

[selfbuilt]

Magnetic, that makes sense, I will test it later today. This also means that I need to do a couple more measurements for the review. And as a bonus I only need two CR123 batteries to test if it is battery or light that has problems with heat.

Sounds good, looking forward to it. FYI, a couple of suggestions have been made in the battery forum thread I started on this topic. Comparing the temperature of the two cells individually at the point stepdown occurs might be interesting, but would be feasible for me only by stopping the run and taking the cells out. :shrug:

 

[HKJ]

Sounds good, looking forward to it. FYI, a couple of suggestions have been made in the battery forum thread I started on this topic. Comparing the temperature of the two cells individually at the point stepdown occurs might be interesting, but would be feasible for me only by stopping the run and taking the cells out. :shrug:

I can only record 3 channels at the current time (With the setup needed for checking batteries), i.e. I can either record current or a single temperature, the other two has to be voltage and brightness.

It was a magnetic switch and it is very easy to control, I am working on some current-voltage-brightness curves just now:

 

[HKJ]

Review updated with current measurements and curves.

 

[selfbuilt]

Thanks for all detailed current-voltage comparisons. :thumbsup:

I can only record 3 channels at the current time (With the setup needed for checking batteries), i.e. I can either record current or a single temperature, the other two has to be voltage and brightness.

Then by all means, record current. I just did a test with Duracell cells (which in my experience have identical discharge characteristics to the Panasonics), and measured the heat (reported in post #5 here).

The front cell gets a lot hotter, especially near the head. It's quite possible the heat is setting off the PTC circuit in the front-most cell. Your voltage-current relationships should clarify what exactly is going on.

 

[HKJ]

Then by all means, record current. I just did a test with Duracell cells (which in my experience have identical discharge characteristics to the Panasonics), and measured the heat (reported in post #5 here).

I am already recording it and it looks like it is the batteries, after 8 minutes 2xCR123 is down to 3 volt. When I am finished with the graph I will post it in the battery thread you started.

 

[Jack2]

I was looking for a small powerful versatile flashlight about 6 months ago and after much research I decided upon a Jetbeam IIIM R5. For one reason or another I never actually bought it. I've just returned now to see if it was still the torch for me, and I notice this which 'looks' a lot better. Just one question about this – is it all waterproof? I mean how would it handle being out in the rain and getting a covering?

 

[HKJ]

I was looking for a small powerful versatile flashlight about 6 months ago and after much research I decided upon a Jetbeam IIIM R5. For one reason or another I never actually bought it. I've just returned now to see if it was still the torch for me, and I notice this which 'looks' a lot better. Just one question about this – is it all waterproof? I mean how would it handle being out in the rain and getting a covering?

The specifications says it can be 1.5 meter under water for 30 minutes, I do not believe that a few drops of rain will do any damage to the light.
The looks and design of the light also makes me believe that it will stand up to any amount of rain.

 

[brightnorm]

Selfbuilt,

I've noticed that you use 2200 mAh LiONs in your tests. I use 2200 mAh Pilas which are their highest capacity batteries, along with the excellent Pila chargers. Have you considered using higher capacity batteries? Could you please talk about your thoughts on this subject.

If this is too OT please ignore.

Brightnorm

 

[selfbuilt]

I've noticed that you use 2200 mAh LiONs in your tests. I use 2200 mAh Pilas which are their highest capacity batteries, along with the excellent Pila chargers. Have you considered using higher capacity batteries? Could you please talk about your thoughts on this subject.

The simple reason why I stick with 2200mAh batteries is it allows direct comparison to my older reviews.

Capacity ratings on batteries are tricky things - they greatly depend on discharge rates. So if I switched cells, you could never really directly compare the runtimes (i.e. AW 2600mAh may not have 18% longer runtime compared to AW 2200mAh at all discharge rates). I believe higher capacity cells tend to perform relatively less well at higher discharges, but you would have to confirm that with the experts in the battery subforum.

Also, there is no magic involved in the chemistry of ICR (LiCoO2) Li-ions - higher capacity is going to mean greater size, either length or width (or both). The original 2200mAh button-tops thus also provide a standard that is virtually guaranteed to work in every light. Newer higher capacity cells (being larger and typically flat-tops) can sometimes have issues in certain lights. I typically test this just to make sure the cells work, but it's simplest again to stick with 2200mAh for regular runtime testing.

Oh, and the runs are finished faster too on 2200mAh cells. That helps when you are doing as many runtimes as I do.

 

[HKJ]

To get an idea of capacity of different cells at different discharge current, check my 18650 roundup.

 

[selfbuilt]

To get an idea of capacity of different cells at different discharge current, check my 18650 roundup.

Great round-up HKJ. Very nice set of comparisons. :thumbsup:

And sorry for the OT reply - when I saw the question addressed to me, I forgot I was in your review thread and not mine.

 

[HKJ]

And sorry for the OT reply - when I saw the question addressed to me, I forgot I was in your review thread and not mine.

No reason to be sorry, the question was for you.

 

[brightnorm]

Thank you both.

Brightnorm