Illum
Flashaholic
well, regardless of whether or not you recycle them, its the technology and investments the recycle plant that limits the amount of cadmium being extracted from recycled batteries:candle:
SANYO Announces C- and D-sized ‘eneloop’ Batteries
- Thread starter Rumpis
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well, regardless of whether or not you recycle them, its the technology and investments the recycle plant that limits the amount of cadmium being extracted from recycled batteries:candle:
jerry i h
Enlightened
Try this: http://www.batterystation.com/nicads.htm
they have NiCd's that are still being made in France. I do not know if they are any better than the NiCd D's made in China I got, but next time I buy 'em, this is where I will get them.
jerry i h
Enlightened
Keep dreamin', my friend; maybe someday it will come true, but not right now...:nana:
Sub_Umbra
Flashlight Enthusiast
"...but not right now."
Yup, that's what I said.
Yup, that's what I said.
metlarules
Flashlight Enthusiast
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1) Nimh batteries isn't going to get less expensive. If anything they will climb in price to pay for the new lsd technology.2)I will continue to use nicads until a better technology comes out at the same or cheaper price than $5 per cell. If these Eneloop d cells are reasonably priced I might pick up a few to try. However I'm not holding my breath for $5 eneloop d cells.3) When my nicads are dead and no longer usable I will recycle them. It's the recycling centers problem to get rid of them properly not mine.
Sub_Umbra
Flashlight Enthusiast
Competition and the 'economy of scale' will moderate the prices of LSD cells somewhat in the future. This has already begun with the AA and AAA form factors. There may be only a few factories producing them right now but there is already a plethora of brands of LSD cells out there and even this early into the game we are in no way locked into paying what Sanyo dictates for LSD AAs and AAAs. They no longer hold all of the cards.
Now that Sanyo is going ahead with LSD Cs and Ds many others will jump into the fray, as they already have with AAs and AAAs. Competion and the economy of scale will help keep prices more fair than if we all just had to buy them from Sanyo forever -- but it will take a while.
If you really want to figure out ways of making LSD cells cheaper, do something that increases their market share. Somehow get it through the masses heads that it's stupid to keep driving 2,000 lb cars to the drugstore...to buy alkalines.
Now that Sanyo is going ahead with LSD Cs and Ds many others will jump into the fray, as they already have with AAs and AAAs. Competion and the economy of scale will help keep prices more fair than if we all just had to buy them from Sanyo forever -- but it will take a while.
If you really want to figure out ways of making LSD cells cheaper, do something that increases their market share. Somehow get it through the masses heads that it's stupid to keep driving 2,000 lb cars to the drugstore...to buy alkalines.
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Turbo DV8
Flashlight Enthusiast
True, but I don't have any more digital cameras that take D cells!
Seriously, regarding capacity, it seems Sanyo could have upped the capacity a bit more and still had a good LSD cell. We know that the 2500 mAh AA cells in general, and Energizer specifically, are pretty dismal in the self-discharge arena. So Sanyo comes up with a solid performer at 2000 mAh. That's 20% less capacity than a 2500. My non-LSD Maha PowerEx D cells, which actually hold a charge pretty decently, are rated at 12,000 mAh, and I have tested all twelve of mine and confirmed that they return between 11,000-12,000 mAh. So, for the sake of argument, let's say my 12,000 mAh PowerEx's actually don't hold a charge well since they are technically non-LSD. The new LSD Sanyo D cells are 6000 mAh. If Sanyo can make a decent AA cell with only 20% less capacity than the 2500 mAh non-LSD AA cells, why do their new LSD D cells have 50% less capacity than what is actually a very decent and capable performer in the D cell category, the 12,000 mAh PowerEx? I am no chemist, but it seems they could have offered up a bit more on the plate for these D cells.
metlarules
Flashlight Enthusiast
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I really hope this isn't a feeler so to speak by Sanyo because they will fail WHOLESALE at 5700mah for a D cell. I do wish them well!!!!!!
I see no sense in this product. Way to ruin a brand.
Take a look at an eneloop AA. You will agree that its LSD. And that it has 2Ah.
Now take 3 of them, and a AA to D converter.
Now you get a D-cell that has more capacity and LSD.
And look how much space is wasted between those batteries, the individual casings, etc.
To put it in numbers:
one Eneloop AA: 2000mAh, 14.5mm diameter. 50.5mm height -> 8.3cm^3 -> 0.24 Ah /cm^3
one Eneloop D : 5700mAh, 34.2mm diameter. 61.5mm height -> 56.5 cm^3 -> 0.10 Ah /cm^3
And this doesnt even take into account that you have less surface on the D-cell, and thus have to waste less space for the casing.
Seriously, they dont have to be proud of themselves for that product. In my eyes its no different than those Energizer Sub-c-cells in the big fat D-spacer sold as "D-cell rechargeables"
Take a look at an eneloop AA. You will agree that its LSD. And that it has 2Ah.
Now take 3 of them, and a AA to D converter.
Now you get a D-cell that has more capacity and LSD.
And look how much space is wasted between those batteries, the individual casings, etc.
To put it in numbers:
one Eneloop AA: 2000mAh, 14.5mm diameter. 50.5mm height -> 8.3cm^3 -> 0.24 Ah /cm^3
one Eneloop D : 5700mAh, 34.2mm diameter. 61.5mm height -> 56.5 cm^3 -> 0.10 Ah /cm^3
And this doesnt even take into account that you have less surface on the D-cell, and thus have to waste less space for the casing.
Seriously, they dont have to be proud of themselves for that product. In my eyes its no different than those Energizer Sub-c-cells in the big fat D-spacer sold as "D-cell rechargeables"
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TorchBoy
Flashlight Enthusiast
Like many here, I just can't understand the lower than expected capacity. Unless they're very inexpensive I can't see much point in not continuing using AA to D adaptors.
I'm also disappointed to see the limit with connecting the cells in series. "If more than 10 battery cells are connected in a series, the PTC overheating function may not work properly, so do not use series connections with more than 10 battery cells."
Does the PTC reset? If so, how many times can it expand and shrink before it stays expanded and permanently contributes to high resistance?
I'm also disappointed to see the limit with connecting the cells in series. "If more than 10 battery cells are connected in a series, the PTC overheating function may not work properly, so do not use series connections with more than 10 battery cells."
Does the PTC reset? If so, how many times can it expand and shrink before it stays expanded and permanently contributes to high resistance?
Mr Happy
Flashlight Enthusiast
I think I am going to assume that 10,000 - 12,000 mAh rechargeable cells are not consumer-friendly. There are no cheap, regular chargers out there that can handle them, and the chargers that can are bulky and expensive.
I imagine Sanyo are aiming for the mainstream consumer market, not the technically sophisticated specialist market.
If you wanted to charge 12,000 mAh cells in 4 hours at 0.25 C, you would need a charger that supplied 3 A per cell. Even the expensive MH-C9000 only manages 2 A per cell, and it gets pretty hot doing it.
I imagine Sanyo are aiming for the mainstream consumer market, not the technically sophisticated specialist market.
If you wanted to charge 12,000 mAh cells in 4 hours at 0.25 C, you would need a charger that supplied 3 A per cell. Even the expensive MH-C9000 only manages 2 A per cell, and it gets pretty hot doing it.
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PhantomPhoton
Flashlight Enthusiast
Interesting. I'm going to wait for reviews of them before I buy any if those dismal capacities are true. I'd like to see how they compare to the LSD C and D cells that are already on the market.
Bones
Enlightened
Tough crowd this.
Anyway, I can only imagine the pressure the marketing division must have asserted to round the D cell's capacity up to a much more respectable sounding 6000mAh, especially since it only involved a paltry 300mAh.
I still maintain the fact that Sanyo resisted this temptation, and instead brought the cell to market with such an odd capacity speaks well for their corporate integrity and bodes well for the consumer.
I would much rather they disappointed us at the outset with a lower than expected capacity than with otherwise inflated and/or misleading claims and less than stellar performance.
Only time will tell how they actually perform, but I remain hopeful that once we get past the capacity shock, we're in for a some pleasant surprises from these cells.
Anyway, I can only imagine the pressure the marketing division must have asserted to round the D cell's capacity up to a much more respectable sounding 6000mAh, especially since it only involved a paltry 300mAh.
I still maintain the fact that Sanyo resisted this temptation, and instead brought the cell to market with such an odd capacity speaks well for their corporate integrity and bodes well for the consumer.
I would much rather they disappointed us at the outset with a lower than expected capacity than with otherwise inflated and/or misleading claims and less than stellar performance.
Only time will tell how they actually perform, but I remain hopeful that once we get past the capacity shock, we're in for a some pleasant surprises from these cells.
lctorana
Flashlight Enthusiast
Well I'm not disappointed.
There, I've said it.
There, I've said it.
Bullzeyebill
Flashaholic
Sanyo is not designing these C and C bateries for CPF'ers, where we want the best of all worlds, great runtime, very, very high discharge under load, and low self discharge. The AA Eneloops were designed for low self discharge, fairly high current draw, and decent runtime, what a camera requires. We were very fortunate that we got the side benefits for our lighting uses.
Bill
Bill
geek4christ
Enlightened
This is great news. I'm not terribly concerned about low capacity so long as they really do retain their charge and behave well under loads like their little brothers. Quite frankly I'd buy an Eneloop D cell for $5 or $6 per cell long before I'll buy the AccuPower D cells at $12 ea. Even with roughly half the capacity.
Sub_Umbra
Flashlight Enthusiast
Well said. I think that there is news to rejoice about here. For those who absolutely must have it all now -- well, too bad -- ain't gonna happen -- well, not today or tomorrow, anyway.
metlarules
Flashlight Enthusiast
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They will not be $5 or $6 a cell. You can bet that they will be at least twice that. If they come in at $10 a cell that means that I can get 14000mah in 2 cells for what this one will cost for 5700mah. No thank you I will pass.You can get 4 aa lsd Sanyo batteries for $10.I do like the Sanyo aa lsd batteries and think that they hit a home run with them.Something tells me that we will be shocked at the asking price of the new d cell lsd's.
Bullzeyebill
Flashaholic
You won't get that 14000mAh unless you run two of those cells in parallel. So up to 1.4 volts, or so with 14000mA's. Two of those cells in series would be up to 2.8 volts or so with 7000mAh.
Bill
+1
The PTC could have a myriad of settings, and I'll decide on my protection settings. Personally, I don't use enough C or D cells to care about these one way or the other. 6 - 7 Volts is the minimal starting point for most things I use, so using 5+ of these C or D cells is irrelevant to me.
