Shouldn't Lumens Factory Have a Turbo Head?

[Mark@LF]

Thanks for the input guys, still waiting for more input though.

But seems more people want the 3 inch then the 2.5 inch and more M thread then the C thread.
I actually lean on the M thread as well because there are C-M Adaptors available, maybe make the design that comes with a removable C-M Adaptor that have the same colour of the head should be a good alternative.

I am interested in the P60/D36 head for the M Series lights that Flea Bag has mentioned, I have never thought of this idea.
But are you sure M Series users would want something like that?
It would probably look very weird and why would a M user want to use D26 style dropins when there are many high power M Series heads and lamps available already?
Please tell me more about this idea.

PS. No need to give us deposits, Fusion. We don't really work like that, never our style. But I totally agree the incan stuff we do is more of a passion then anything. To be honest, if we are not doing it probably nobody would anymore. We are LF after all. :thumbsup:

Cheers,

Mark

 

[Fusion_m8]

A 3" M head for the M-series incand lamps, I think thats almost a given.

With the D26/D36 drop-in style heads, can the existing Seraph LED Turohead reflector be modified to accomodate these D26/D36 drop-ins like what FM did? LF can sell the modified reflector as an aftermarket retrofit accessory for existing users, and also sell it as a new unit to new buyers.

After all we might be dealing with 2 distinct niche markets, LF will monopolise the market all to itself because no one else in the world is doing it!

 

[Mark@LF]

Fusion, noted on the opinion on the head.

But I don't really understand what you meant on the Seraph Turbohead that can fit a D26/D36 reflector.
Do you mean a large turbohead that can use the D26/D36 pills?
Our D26/D36 pills are not removable, so I am not sure if that is a good product for us.
Or do you mean a large turbohead with a large opening that can fit the D26 or D36 reflector modules (would be 2 seperate reflectors) and provide better beam quality and throw?

Cheers,

Mark

 

[Fusion_m8]

Refer to FM's Surefire Deep Turbo C Head design and you can see how D26 or P60 style drop in modules could fit into the Turbohead reflector.

**NB: I AM NOT SUGGESTING OR PROMOTING THE IDEA OF COPYING ANOTHER PERSON'S DESIGN OR IDEA.**

Perhaps LF could modify the reflector in the SERAPH to also accomodate D26 modules for C and M users?

 

[Mark@LF]

Thanks Fusion, now I understand.
Interesting concept, but it seems he has not sell too many of these in the 3 years that it was available.
So not really sure if it is a moving product and I don't really want to have a conflict with FM, he is a pretty cool guy.

Probably better to stick with the plan on this turbohead and maybe reviving some of the remaining discontinued SF lamp assemblies that has no conflicts with people as far as new incan project goes.

 

[ampdude]

I would prefer the 3" version for C, but I would buy an M version as well. And I'm open to the 2.5" version as well. I have a question about this. If it was for an M head, why would you focus it for the N62 instead of the MN21 and like bulbs? And others like the MN10, MN11, MN15, MN16, ect.

 

[It01Firefox]

I'd be interested in the 3" M head as well.

 

[Flea Bag]

I am interested in the P60/D36 head for the M Series lights that Flea Bag has mentioned, I have never thought of this idea.
But are you sure M Series users would want something like that?
It would probably look very weird and why would a M user want to use D26 style dropins when there are many high power M Series heads and lamps available already?
Please tell me more about this idea.

I know the available incans for the M-series are high-powered, but in terms of LED drop-ins, I think only your line of Seraph M-series heads are reasonably powerful. There is a TLC (or somebrand of similar name) from OpticsHQ that also fit M-series bodies but they're not that high powered either.) If there are more that you know of, please let me know.

But back to the possibility of fitting P60-drop-ins into an M-series body, the head doesn't have to be the same size as a Z44 bezel or something tiny like that. It could be made like the size of an old KL6 head or M3 head or larger to look more proportional to M3, M4 and even M6 bodies. That would help heat-sinking too. Look at how popular the Cryos cooling heads are! There are quite a few high-powered P60 drop-ins out there that are (IMHO) too powerful for their small hosts/heads.

As for higher-output drop-ins that would go well with the M-series bodies which can accept two or more li-ions, we have:

1. Malkoff M91 series (7 watts) Gets too hot in my hands in a C3 body even with Moddoolar Cryos M2 head. I live at the equator though so it's hot all year round. Air cooling does not help enough.
2. Malkoff M91A series (over 11 watts) I recall a few Malkoff users saying that this drop-in can get too uncomfortably warm/hot to be used on constant-on beyond 15 to 20 minutes. That's for guys living in colder climates. For me here in the tropics, there's no way I can take the heat of this thing in a C/P series body/head.
3. Oveready Triple Emitter Drop-ins/Lux-RC powered engines/drop-ins. The most common power outputs of these drop-ins are 15 and 10 watts on high and most are over 1000 lumens output. Fitted inside a larger M-series head and body, many (including myself) can actually start considering using these things on high constantly if we so choose.
4. Some may still choose to use NailBender or Vinh drop-ins (especially their XM-L version drop-ins) on high and quite a few of them are pushed to 3.1 or even 4.2 or 4.5 amps!
5. There are also other triples and quad P60 drop-ins though these only run on a single li-ion.

The main point here I guess is that a P60-compatible head for M-series lights has the excuse to be bigger and chunkier to fit and look nice on an M-series body. If you think the market is small though, then the other alterntaive is to consider making the first adaptor neck that will allow C heads to fit on M-series bodies. Again, there will be a bit more resistance in this design because something will have to connect the drop-in spring to the battery positive contact. However, that would mean lots of possibilities! Besides C heads and drop-ins on M-bodies, we can fit KT1/KT2s, SRTHs, Seraph bezels and all the crazy range of producs that have popped up in the format over the years. I might even consider running one of your high-powered P60 incans in a C head on an M6 body for better heat-mangement, runtime and a wide beam with huge-hotspot that an M3/KT4 head can't provide. Sometimes a smaller reflector has its advantages!

 

[Mark@LF]

Hi Ampdude,

I was refering to if I truly want to recreate an SRTH, like a complete revival then it will have the same reflector that is focused based on the N62.
But I am scraping the idea and leaning toward an entirely new design of a 2.5 or 3 inch turbohead and of course it will use the current MN Series bulbs and our M Series bulbs, not the impossible to get N62.
I must admit that the N62 on the SRTH has some legendary beam and even better on the 3 inch.


Fleabag,

Thanks for the input, I get what you mean now.
I will do some experient on current Seraph heads and see if I can come up with something feasible.
Market is not much of an issue as it will probably be a modification of the current Seraph heads.

Thanks again.

Mark

 

[Flea Bag]

Fleabag,

Thanks for the input, I get what you mean now.
I will do some experient on current Seraph heads and see if I can come up with something feasible.
Market is not much of an issue as it will probably be a modification of the current Seraph heads.

Thanks again.

Mark

Does this mean the adaptor collar idea is out and you're only considering a P60-M-series head?

An ambitious and costly but bonkers idea for all the output junkies out there with M-series bodies would be something no one has done before: Triple Drop-In P60 heads! Ie. A head wired in parallel which accepts up to three P60 drop-ins! So I could have three Malkoffs or three triple emitter Torchlab drop-ins for 3000 to 4000 lumens or have a mix and match of whatever is in the wide-market out there! I can dream right?

 

[jimbo@stn23]

Thanks Mark for your thoughts and time.

Just a simple man over this way, 2.5 or 3" is fine by me. Perhaps an option to include a C-M adapter with the head as well. Easy to find lamp assemblies is very preferable.

 

[Fusion_m8]

Flea: 4000lumen triple P60 M assembly??? I'd drool over that too but the backbone of all M-series products has always been RELIABILITY, not sheer output. I guess its because the M-series lights are geared toward military and law enforcement end users who demand 100% reliabilty over 1000% output each and everyday on the job. I guess that is why TLS heads have such comparatively "low" outputs compared to those lights geared towards recreational and hobby end users.

 

[ampdude]

Good to hear that Mark, the MN lamps are still plentiful and it seems Surefire is still making them. I assume they will still make them for some time to come as there are a lot of incan Surefire weaponlights out there.

The N62 and N61 weren't made for very long or in very high quantities as high powered incan lights were sort of in their infancy then and they don't have nearly the following that the current SF lamps do. I would very much like to see an N62 in an SRTH someday, I imagine it has a little more throw than an MN21 from an M6.

 

[cenz]

Good to hear that Mark, the MN lamps are still plentiful and it seems Surefire is still making them. I assume they will still make them for some time to come as there are a lot of incan Surefire weaponlights out there.

The N62 and N61 weren't made for very long or in very high quantities as high powered incan lights were sort of in their infancy then and they don't have nearly the following that the current SF lamps do. I would very much like to see an N62 in an SRTH someday, I imagine it has a little more throw than an MN21 from an M6.

I have N62 and SRTH, the beam is not really for extremely throw (and the spot has slightly dark hole in close to 1M), but really round beam and nice spill; 3" T head with N62 is more thrower than SRTH.

For throw, 3" T head is the best (with N62,N2,MN21,16,15...), but the beam quality is not really nice (just my opinion), and...N62 with 3"T is the best and powerful combination.

For beam quality, SRTH is the best for current MN tower models I have seen, and more thrower than KT1,2 & 4.

So I hope Mark recreates SRTH for a optimized version of KT1,2,4 in 2.5" dia size; Also, made another 3" head (not refer to SF 3"T) but it is far thrower than SRTH.

 

[Juggernaut]

To be honest, if we are not doing it probably nobody would anymore. We are LF after all. :thumbsup:

+1:twothumbs

A head wired in parallel which accepts up to three P60 drop-ins! So I could have three Malkoffs or three triple emitter Torchlab drop-ins for 3000 to 4000 lumens or have a mix and match of whatever is in the wide-market out there! I can dream right?

That would be SO AWESOME!

3" sounds good to me, as long as you can use an adaptor, don't care if it's M or C, personally I would like this set up for crazy long trow with whatever output makes sense for that perfect narrow beam, however max output works too, we have access to what ever IMR cells we could ever need so however many watts is fine by me. Though I like that multiple D26 idea, you could have a whole bunch of LEDs (yuck) or maybe one incan for that great CRI and an LED for throw / flood, could be really cool!:thumbsup:

 

[Mark@LF]

Haha, the topic finally dragged in cenz. :huh:
He is the guy who showed me the 3 inch and SRTH head with the N62, legendary throw on the 3 inch and legendary beam and spot on the SRTH.
He is also the one that got my interest back about this project a few weeks ago.

I am pretty sure I am not going to copy the old 3 inch head, but design a brand new one that use the MN and M Series lamps for focus point.
The N62 has a focal point that is a bit different then the MN and M Series, so using the MN or M Series lamps on the SF SRTH or 3 inch do not yield the absolute optimum results.

Thank you for everyone's input, I am quite clear now that I will go design a 3 inch head on M threads for the MN and M Series lamps.
Including a C-M adaptor in black will be a consideration, but the thing will be in Mil-spec HA3 flat/matt black as I am fed up with the shade whinners on the natural HA.

But please do keep the ideas coming, we need to keep the filament burning. :thumbsup:

 

[Flea Bag]

Flea: 4000lumen triple P60 M assembly??? I'd drool over that too but the backbone of all M-series products has always been RELIABILITY, not sheer output. I guess its because the M-series lights are geared toward military and law enforcement end users who demand 100% reliabilty over 1000% output each and everyday on the job. I guess that is why TLS heads have such comparatively "low" outputs compared to those lights geared towards recreational and hobby end users.

I'd agree with you on the reliability part, but high output has also always been another feature of the M series, especially the M6 and now the M6LT! In the incan days, the M3, M4 and M6 were the brightest lights in SF's line-up and now that tradition continues with the UB3T and M6LT at 800 and 900 lumens respectively. With that reasoning, I'm pretty sure a lot of SF fans still buy the M-series lights for sheer output rather than just reliability/dependability so having a triple P60-drop-in-head for high-output isn't really contradictory to what a substantial portion of the M-series buyers might want.

The issue here I think might be the loss in throw of having three smaller reflectors/optics rather than one big one. However, the new XP-G2 drop-ins by Nailbender or Malkoff or even the old M60 Malkoffs multiplied by three should result in pretty decent throw equivalent to an old MN15 or MN20 at least! Three triple XP-Es from Torchlab would also produce some serious throw! That would be costly though.

 

[ampdude]

Excellent 3"! Now that I think about it, I'd highly prefer that over 2.5" as well. Might as well "go big or go home" for optimum results. Can't wait to see the performance of this thing!

Also hoping it is very light orange peel for maximum throw, and a removable borofloat/pyrex lens for cleaning the glass similar to SF. Something that you can unscrew like with SFs.

 

[Mark@LF]

Haha, I like the "go big or go home" phrase.
I have been spending time on LED projects for too long and their trend are smaller, smaller, smaller.
Seems I totally forgot the big head and burn hot of the incan circle.
It is good to be home.

Yes, I was indeed thinking of the removable lens design. It will probably be similar to our Seraph turboheads in that aspect.
But I want it to be lighter since it is big, so I will probably go with a much simpler design then the Seraph.
Something that works and not too heavy to maintain the balance of the light, nothing flashy just a simple turbohead with good finishing and good balance of throw/spill.
I want to create something that is balanced, not just for throw and no spill.
Probably something that will be good to use in the outdoors like on hiking trip or outdoor searching, etc.

Cheers.


Mark

 

[Fusion_m8]

"Go big or go home"

Check out Item 3 for sale on this thread from CPFMarketPlace:

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?275271-SF-Old-amp-Rare-Lights-price-drop

That's one HUGE reflector. 5-6inch? 9xCR123, what lamp is it running??