Sony VTC6

[WalkIntoTheLight]

Now 2 batteries have 40-50mohms IR and problematic ones 100-150mohms.

Even the 40-50 mOhms sounds high for a VTC6 cell. The 150 mOhms is definitely bad. If you're using that at 12 amps (is that what you planned the cells for?), that's a voltage drop of 1.8 volts. It makes the cell practically useless at that current, and would probably get too hot anyway.

You should definitely either ask for an exchange, or at least a partial refund.

 

[IlluminationDomination]

My conclusion thanks to Tom E. and Mooch along w/ my personal run time testing, is that the VTC5D is a better battery all around than the VTC6. The minimal capacity advantage of the VTC6 is surpassed by amp draw and overall performance by the VTC5D. It would be an advantage to use the VTC5D in ANY light which was verified by Tom E. in the stock light D1S.

 

[id30209]

Even the 40-50 mOhms sounds high for a VTC6 cell. The 150 mOhms is definitely bad. If you're using that at 12 amps (is that what you planned the cells for?), that's a voltage drop of 1.8 volts. It makes the cell practically useless at that current, and would probably get too hot anyway.

You should definitely either ask for an exchange, or at least a partial refund.

Later when i get home i'll light up FM Elephant with Osram 64623 and properly test all batteries. If measurement will be at the end bellow 100mohms i'll leave it, if not they'll be sent back. 10+ Amps don't leave any battery without a scar...

 

[KITROBASKIN]

For the sake of visitors and the newly informed:

The vast majority of flashlights in the world will see no visual increase in brightness (lux or lumens) using any of the hot rod batteries discussed here on candlepowerforums. I have, and regularly use, Sony VTC5, VTC5A, VTC6, VC7, along with the 18650GA. Also used are various protected and unprotected 18650, 26650, and others. Even using quad and triple emitter flashlights show nothing of particular significance as long as up-to-date, quality batteries are used. Since I do not, in practice, take batteries down much below 3.8V and almost never below 3.6 Volts, even the somewhat higher capacity batteries don't allow that much more runtime.

If a person has clean contacts between head and body and tailcap, a higher Amp switch, and hungry emitters, the tool is going to heat up fairly fast, with heat shedding depending on how well the flashlight components are made to release the heat. The LED's will start to reduce output because of heat and voltage sag. Still, the different kinds of good quality batteries will not display any particular difference in performance to the eye in actual use.

One of my quads from PFlexPRO will run about 14A through a thick copper piece placed between the flashlight body and the negative side of a quality high Amp battery, but the piece of copper gets hot fairly quickly. The Emisar D4Ti heats up so fast, the idea that some particular battery must be used is human folly. The thermal protection kicks in so fast (30 seconds?) the difference in performance is insignificant. I have ordered an Emisar D4 and expect similar results. The Emisar D1S is a fine tool and I see no difference with the different quality batteries.

Now some big flashlights and the hot rod vaping devices are different in that they need higher sustained Amperage, and in the case of some torches, will not be able to shine as bright, at least for the first minute or so, with lesser performing batteries.

This post is directed to practical users, and some enthusiasts might get angry with it. Any correction or additional factors are certainly welcome from members. But anyone wanting to jump in with comments like; more efficient, increased output, higher performing, etc. needs to quantify their statements. When the actual numbers come out, it is obvious that the differences are essentially very close to being, (or completely) not detectable in real life use.

 

[peter yetman]

That was good. I've only been thinking the same thing, but haven't felt able to articulate it as well as you.
P

 

[id30209]

Noted. Thank you for this info

 

[IlluminationDomination]

For the sake of visitors and the newly informed:

The vast majority of flashlights in the world will see no visual increase in brightness (lux or lumens) using any of the hot rod batteries discussed here on candlepowerforums. I have, and regularly use, Sony VTC5, VTC5A, VTC6, VC7, along with the 18650GA. Also used are various protected and unprotected 18650, 26650, and others. Even using quad and triple emitter flashlights show nothing of particular significance as long as up-to-date, quality batteries are used. Since I do not, in practice, take batteries down much below 3.8V and almost never below 3.6 Volts, even the somewhat higher capacity batteries don't allow that much more runtime.

If a person has clean contacts between head and body and tailcap, a higher Amp switch, and hungry emitters, the tool is going to heat up fairly fast, with heat shedding depending on how well the flashlight components are made to release the heat. The LED's will start to reduce output because of heat and voltage sag. Still, the different kinds of good quality batteries will not display any particular difference in performance to the eye in actual use.

One of my quads from PFlexPRO will run about 14A through a thick copper piece placed between the flashlight body and the negative side of a quality high Amp battery, but the piece of copper gets hot fairly quickly. The Emisar D4Ti heats up so fast, the idea that some particular battery must be used is human folly. The thermal protection kicks in so fast (30 seconds?) the difference in performance is insignificant. I have ordered an Emisar D4 and expect similar results. The Emisar D1S is a fine tool and I see no difference with the different quality batteries.

Now some big flashlights and the hot rod vaping devices are different in that they need higher sustained Amperage, and in the case of some torches, will not be able to shine as bright, at least for the first minute or so, with lesser performing batteries.

This post is directed to practical users, and some enthusiasts might get angry with it. Any correction or additional factors are certainly welcome from members. But anyone wanting to jump in with comments like; more efficient, increased output, higher performing, etc. needs to quantify their statements. When the actual numbers come out, it is obvious that the differences are essentially very close to being, (or completely) not detectable in real life use.

From the visual perspective I would agree that it would not be noticeable to the human eye whether your using a Sanyo GA/Panasonic NCR or any flavor of Sony, Samsumg ect. Just the same as someone would not notice a difference between Two of the same[tint] lights that are 3000 lumen and 2700 Lumen.

Now, the psychological difference in having an advantage of a higher output light, regardless of the visual difference, can be appealing. I think that is One of the trademarks of a Flashaholic.

 

[id30209]

Gents, thank you for your more then helpfull advices but i must just say this thing: after my peasant battery test (draining @10.5A in high power light) and recharge, IR setled on values of 22mohms on best cell and 50mohms on the worse cell. Xchecked 3 times on DMM and checked on MC-3000. I'm not a big expert in this area like i said previously and that was the reason i've posted this thread. Your replies was really nice for my limited knowledge but at the end your experteeze exploded to the levels not understandable for me, so "redneck" in me kicked in. That's the point where you just need to leave calculations aside, light the fire (64623) and watch the world burn. At least from time to time. After a torch like that there could be only 2 outcomes, batteries will be perfect (almost did) or it will be destroyed totally. Well, i was lucky this time
I'm not writing this as a disrespectfull but completly oposite!
Thank you guys for all inputs, infos (i didn't know that stuffabout Vapcell) and your time spent on this problem.
I'll keep the batteries and for my next purchase i know who to ask.
You're the best!

 

[IlluminationDomination]

^^^

Thank you,and thanks for your thread and input.

 

[KITROBASKIN]

Well said about a trademark of a flashaholic, IlluminationDomination, thank you.
It is such fun to experiment with these different batteries! Some of us have an inexplicable affinity for Sony cells, regardless of logic or practicality. It's not like we are buying Ferrari's right? We can have fun talking about it.

A few years ago, using a Vinh built direct drive XML2 dedomed dropin in a simple quality host with a 'zero resistance' switch, I used an infrared thermometer to test how long different batteries would take for the head of the flashlight to get to a certain temperature (forget now but maybe 120 degrees F). I was sick at home and had some time. Tried to keep the ambient temperature consistent as the test ran on for several days. You would be surprised how long it takes for a flashlight body to get back to ambient! Also the time the battery was off the charger sometimes seemed to have more of an effect than battery type. The winner (by a few seconds) was a battery I was not really supposed to have, sent by a great person, who I agreed not to tell anyone I had it. The person said one other CPF member had it and that member mentioned it was up there with the best. It is unlikely now that there would be a problem but still I won't show an image of the information on the wrap, except to say it has the name of the company, the name of the battery, 3.7V 18650 HD 1500mAh 5.55Wh, along with some other numbers that may ID the person/company who had these made. This was maybe four years ago. Fun stuff.

 

[sbslider]

For the sake of visitors and the newly informed:

The vast majority of flashlights in the world will see no visual increase in brightness (lux or lumens) using any of the hot rod batteries discussed here on candlepowerforums. I have, and regularly use, Sony VTC5, VTC5A, VTC6, VC7, along with the 18650GA. Also used are various protected and unprotected 18650, 26650, and others. Even using quad and triple emitter flashlights show nothing of particular significance as long as up-to-date, quality batteries are used. Since I do not, in practice, take batteries down much below 3.8V and almost never below 3.6 Volts, even the somewhat higher capacity batteries don't allow that much more runtime.

If a person has clean contacts between head and body and tailcap, a higher Amp switch, and hungry emitters, the tool is going to heat up fairly fast, with heat shedding depending on how well the flashlight components are made to release the heat. The LED's will start to reduce output because of heat and voltage sag. Still, the different kinds of good quality batteries will not display any particular difference in performance to the eye in actual use.

One of my quads from PFlexPRO will run about 14A through a thick copper piece placed between the flashlight body and the negative side of a quality high Amp battery, but the piece of copper gets hot fairly quickly. The Emisar D4Ti heats up so fast, the idea that some particular battery must be used is human folly. The thermal protection kicks in so fast (30 seconds?) the difference in performance is insignificant. I have ordered an Emisar D4 and expect similar results. The Emisar D1S is a fine tool and I see no difference with the different quality batteries.

Now some big flashlights and the hot rod vaping devices are different in that they need higher sustained Amperage, and in the case of some torches, will not be able to shine as bright, at least for the first minute or so, with lesser performing batteries.

This post is directed to practical users, and some enthusiasts might get angry with it. Any correction or additional factors are certainly welcome from members. But anyone wanting to jump in with comments like; more efficient, increased output, higher performing, etc. needs to quantify their statements. When the actual numbers come out, it is obvious that the differences are essentially very close to being, (or completely) not detectable in real life use.

At the risk of thread drift, and knowing the OP's original question has been addressed, i would like to pose a new question. I have purchased a emisar D4 and am in the market for a battery, actually two of them. I bought the 18350 tube and plan to purchase a Aspire/Vapcell 1100mAh 10A cell for use in the D4. I am undecided as to what 18650 cell to get. What requirements are there for this cell? "Everyone" says to get a VTC6 or a samsung 30q among others. I am not buying tons of cells, so the cost of the battery is not huge. What I am wondering is what cells can be run safely in the light? Or maybe a better question is what cells can not be run safely in the light? At some point the internal resistance of the cell will limit the current at heating, as well as the thermal limit above. To be clear, I plan to buy my cells from either Li ion wholesale or another reputable seller.

 

[WalkIntoTheLight]

At the risk of thread drift, and knowing the OP's original question has been addressed, i would like to pose a new question. I have purchased a emisar D4 and am in the market for a battery, actually two of them. I bought the 18350 tube and plan to purchase a Aspire/Vapcell 1100mAh 10A cell for use in the D4. I am undecided as to what 18650 cell to get. What requirements are there for this cell? "Everyone" says to get a VTC6 or a samsung 30q among others. I am not buying tons of cells, so the cost of the battery is not huge. What I am wondering is what cells can be run safely in the light? Or maybe a better question is what cells can not be run safely in the light? At some point the internal resistance of the cell will limit the current at heating, as well as the thermal limit above. To be clear, I plan to buy my cells from either Li ion wholesale or another reputable seller.

I'd stick with a high-drain cell capable of at least 15A continuous current. Samsung 30Q is probably the least expensive. I find the Sony VTC6 has about 5% more energy than the 30Q, and is another good battery. If you want to maximize the output, albeit probably not a noticeable difference, you could get a 20 amp cell like the Sony VTC5. Anything higher drain is overkill.

 

[sbslider]

I'd stick with a high-drain cell capable of at least 15A continuous current. Samsung 30Q is probably the least expensive. I find the Sony VTC6 has about 5% more energy than the 30Q, and is another good battery. If you want to maximize the output, albeit probably not a noticeable difference, you could get a 20 amp cell like the Sony VTC5. Anything higher drain is overkill.

thanks for the recommendation.

 

[IlluminationDomination]

I would go w/ VTC5D[Vapcell]-$9.99/cell . Liionwholesale has 150 left. If you wanted to save money the 30Q[$4.98 FT/$5.09 BT] would be my next recommendation.

About 1 year ago Jon from Liionwholsale gave me a link that provided the graph below.

As you can see the VTC6 degrades the fastest in this "Accelerated Cycle test".

 

[WalkIntoTheLight]

As you can see the VTC6 degrades the fastest in this "Accelerated Cycle test".

Given that kind of torture-test, I'm surprised the 30Q only degraded by 6%. I've always thought of it as an inferior cell to the VTC6, but I may have to rethink that. I wonder if regular use would produce similar results in degradation (though obvious much less quickly).

 

[IlluminationDomination]

^^^

I forgot to mention that in my own personal use of the VTC6 I found that it degraded at a similar rate as posted above. iirc It was ~ 11.4% over a period of around 1 year.This was normal use and after ~ 60 cycles.

I do not have this info on my computer. I wrote it down somewhere in my notes and would have to find it!

However, I am certain the numbers above are pretty accurate.

I have had much better results with my 30Q and VTC5A. The VTC5D is too new to make any conclusions.

 

[Newlumen]

I still have to do correction factor on my lumen tube.. in the meantime, i tested out 4 battery on the stock acebeam L16.

Turn on lumen and @30 seconds..
2450/2370. Sony vtc6
2450/2370 sony vtc5d
2450/2350 sony vtc5a
2430/2350 shockli imr

will i buy sony vtc5d for $9.99 ? No.. it is too expensive... i rather use sony vtc6 $6.50 or vtc5a $5.99.. @illumn.

 

[id30209]

Newlumen and IlluminationDomination are both right. Each of you prefer something else but that is what you looking for is not a primary goal of other guy. VTC5D will perform under hi loads better than VTC6 and at higher price as i can see. But VTC6 will perform @10-15A almost with the same result as VTC5D as i'm reading reviews and that's why it's cheaper.

 

[magellan]

Given that kind of torture-test, I'm surprised the 30Q only degraded by 6%. I've always thought of it as an inferior cell to the VTC6, but I may have to rethink that. I wonder if regular use would produce similar results in degradation (though obvious much less quickly).

Interesting. I may have to change my opinion as well.

Great info, thanks!

 

[ChrisGarrett]

At the risk of thread drift, and knowing the OP's original question has been addressed, i would like to pose a new question. I have purchased a emisar D4 and am in the market for a battery, actually two of them. I bought the 18350 tube and plan to purchase a Aspire/Vapcell 1100mAh 10A cell for use in the D4. I am undecided as to what 18650 cell to get. What requirements are there for this cell? "Everyone" says to get a VTC6 or a samsung 30q among others. I am not buying tons of cells, so the cost of the battery is not huge. What I am wondering is what cells can be run safely in the light? Or maybe a better question is what cells can not be run safely in the light? At some point the internal resistance of the cell will limit the current at heating, as well as the thermal limit above. To be clear, I plan to buy my cells from either Li ion wholesale or another reputable seller.

I bought the Sony VTC5a for my cyan D4 219CT, since the light can pull between 15A-20A.

I too got the 18350 and some Aspire 18350s, but don't run that configuration due to the pocket clip not fitting on the 18350 body. I've carried it at work just fine in 18650 guise.

I also bought the D1s in A3 and use the other Sony VTC5a in that, although I could settle for lower performing cells.

Chris