---Stupid Light Laws---

ghostguy6

Enlightened
Joined
Jan 21, 2007
Messages
282
Location
Ed, Ab

alpg88

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 19, 2005
Messages
5,342
Yea, pretty much, try to defend yourself with a 19 inch flashlight you will be charged with a criminal possession of a weapon, and a felony assault, or whatever terms they use over there, Canada is worse than NY and CA
 

bykfixer

Flashaholic
Joined
Aug 9, 2015
Messages
20,476
Location
Dust in the Wind
Years ago the baseball bat sized flashlight was a search and rescue tool. Having to stack battery's end to end to make it brighter meant the brightest lights were the biggest lights. They were often available as adjustable using extensions.

IMG_0097.jpeg

Some even came with a shoulder strap.

When the sprinkler pipe flashlight was invented, again the brightest was the biggest. Now when things got out of control the alluminum flashlight that was capable of driving a nail into a 2x4 was used ocassionaly as a defensive device. But so were 3D and 4D that are much shorter.
 

Kitchen Panda

Enlightened
Joined
Aug 28, 2011
Messages
260
Location
Winnipeg
Here is the one for Alberta, page 82 of the pdf https://open.alberta.ca/dataset/e85...oad/ssia-policy-manual-4-0-amended-2015-2.pdf

10.5.4 Flashlights
Flashlights shall be no longer than 18 inches in length. Flashlights are not to be used as
a baton or weapon.
This thread is in danger of being closed by moderators as it will rapidly drift into politics, but that's a rule to regulate private security types, not the general public - and it's pretty obvious you don't want to permit skull-cracking by rentacops. It's intent that makes the weapon, at least in Canada - hit someone with a rolled-up neewspaper and you can be charged. And the rule cited has nothing to do with floodlights mounted on a car.
 

Bull-Dozer

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Sep 1, 2020
Messages
92
Seems the thread has taken on a life of its own. All very interesting to me. I can see people shelving such discussions all though I don't really understand it. Then again, I have never really had much of an identity. I chalk it up to being on the spectrum. For me, politics and religion are like math. I do not believe anything that cannot be thoroughly proven. I also do not get very emotional about it. Hearing different arguments is more like walking through a candy shop trying all the flavors. Some or awful, so are not. I get more curious than anything.

I also fail to understand all things statist and collectivist at their core. I have never felt it relative to watching others passionately advocate for this or that program, law, tax, etc. My mind always flashes to ways in which individuals can solve for X through personal decisions or else live with less than ideals results. If I have a degree of passion about anything it is my dislike for being held to the lowest common denominator. That excuse is a black hole used to justify every manner of excessive and immoral control and syphoning. Reminds me of the dull pace and shallow experiences of my public school years.

In all honestly the older I get the more I suspect those of us incapable of things outside of individualism just cannot understand much else. It's like the whole world is on a broken down bus, standing room only, in the middle of July with the windows up ranting at me as I walk on by. I will probably never understand. I have found that at the bottom of most stupid ideas are mismanaged emotions. Emotions are expensive, wretched things. Glad I am largely exempt.
 

ghostguy6

Enlightened
Joined
Jan 21, 2007
Messages
282
Location
Ed, Ab
This thread is in danger of being closed by moderators as it will rapidly drift into politics, but that's a rule to regulate private security types, not the general public - and it's pretty obvious you don't want to permit skull-cracking by rentacops. It's intent that makes the weapon, at least in Canada - hit someone with a rolled-up neewspaper and you can be charged. And the rule cited has nothing to do with floodlights mounted on a car.
It might not apply to general citizen but it is a starting part in restrictions. That rule also applies to those "rent a cops" who are licensed to carry a baton. If you happen to have an aluminum flashlight in hand and strike someone your in big trouble but if you have time to draw your longer hardened steel baton and hit them your covered.

Also the thread it titled "stupid Light Laws" not "Flood Lights Mounted on Cars". The Alberta Traffic Act covers that buy saying no light may be mounted above the center line of the vehicles original headlights. There are some exemptions for commercial vehicles who operate off the road.
 

KITROBASKIN

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 28, 2013
Messages
5,448
Location
New Mexico, USA
A little proofreading of post #67 and it qualifies, you ask me. More rant, more talking about oneself, but showing creativity about a facet of the human condition.

Curious how people will label themselves on the spectrum (autistic) and somehow that makes it ok to denigrate others? Even if it the criticism is fairly accurate.

Considering other perspectives about artificial light use as well as all other interactions with the world is something that needs to be addressed, and government is an (often far from optimum) method. If so many humans weren't so greedy/selfish/hateful/lazy we would not have the need for all these laws.

Open eyes and a roving spirit will make clear that there are many good people in this world. Creating an environment where basic needs are being met and refraining from demonizing those who disagree will go a long way toward a decent existence. One can hope.
 

Bull-Dozer

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Sep 1, 2020
Messages
92
---KITROBASKIN--- I am no stranger to the following: you're not wrong, I just don't like you. Actually, it's the cognitive dissonance people do not like.

Without the pressures and influences of social cohesion, a crippling handicap for most, I have a gate keeping mechanism baked-in that asks why in quick succession as many times as needed until an idea or argument stands on reason or is cleaved to pieces. I have discovered most people have very little if any sound rationale for the things they do and believe. I am not talking about being at odds by arriving at different conclusions, I am talking about never arriving. Empty.

Of course it is easier to attack delivery and character than it is to topple accurate ideas and arguments. The first requires little more than overly sensitive accusations and emotionally based criticisms. This serves to divert but itself is not an argument (I am quite used to it, as mentioned). The latter requires an attempt at making reason and evidence fit a preconception that is typically merely emotionally based but of course truth and reality do not yield to our whims and wants. I dream of a world that seeks truth first and niceties never.

Once I asked my entire detachment what they planned to tell their grandkids if asked why they fought the war. Not a single one of them gave a reason beyond a nonsensical bumper sticker slogan. Some of them still hold it against me. Funny thing is I never asserted anything. I only asked a single question and they could not answer because there was not a good reason and it pained them to admit it. I was criticized extensively for asking but stuck to the question. Their anger grew to shouting but I did not waiver. I doubled down and they howled. No matter, ignorance should not be comfortable.
 
Last edited:

Kitchen Panda

Enlightened
Joined
Aug 28, 2011
Messages
260
Location
Winnipeg
I despise stupid laws, possibly more than most.
This is what happens when you have to rely on the legislature instead of common-sense and fair play. There are enough people out there who think they can put one over on their fellow citizens, that some of these laws become necessary. We're all in this together - some people don't see it that way and only look out for No. 1.
 

KITROBASKIN

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 28, 2013
Messages
5,448
Location
New Mexico, USA
Spectrum or not, anyone who thinks they hold the truth or actual reality over other people, well...

Funny because I like you. It's just the self aggrandizing, condescending eloquent clatter is scaring the kids and ruffling the frou frou.

Please continue posting, you have a lot to contribute.

 

Bull-Dozer

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Sep 1, 2020
Messages
92
---KITROBASKIN--- That is the catch, we can know truth and reality. I deal in ideas but this is often mistook as self-aggrandizing or condescension as you made mention. I have tried to understand how striving to be honest and accurate is offensive. I am often not believed when I say I do not understand a thing. That is the worst part of being on the spectrum, at least for me. What's automatic for neurotypicals is a twin-stick manual transmission for me. Sometimes I fold at the thought of the effort.

Forums offer decent interaction and anonymity. I just have to be careful to be appropriate and not personally insult directly. I may scoff at an idea but that's my reaction to the idea, not the person presenting it. If I felt this thread were too hostile I would no longer read or respond. My trained response to friction is to flee. Even if I can justify my actions in physical or social self-defense authorities are prone to prejudice far more than the average person. I am too lazy to Google it but somebody said, paraphrasing, "Those who promise to be good masters still wish to be your master."
 

KITROBASKIN

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 28, 2013
Messages
5,448
Location
New Mexico, USA
That's what I'm talking about. Thing is, how many times have you seen people getting on someone's case about whatever, but that whatever turns out to be actually a serious fault of the complainer?

I, kitro, talk about myself way too much, getting all superior like I'm better than others. Hey don't be like me.

But there is also the practical element. You want to be heard, want to help others see another perspective. It helps a lot to figure out how to get the point across to others who are clouded in various ways. Consider it a challenge. Possibly you will need to put on an act for them to relate, but it will achieve your objective.

Unless you are consumed with the apathy of a (legend in one's own mind) superior being.

Some people here at CPF know I'm working with special Ed students; had several autistic spectrum high functioning individuals. Last year and this one upcoming, a non-verbal (uses an iPad to request bladder drain) and an echo low verbal. They both have smarts, routines, preferences, interests and beliefs. A lot of stuff does not compute at all.

You can point with your finger something for your dog, like an obscured treat that he missed. Try that with a wolf, or chimpanzee. No go.
 

Bull-Dozer

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Sep 1, 2020
Messages
92
Putting it all together I am interesting in stupid laws because they demonstrate the collective capacities and inner workings of the neurotypical world. When I hear arguments supporting stupid laws, programs, taxes and so on I get a better understanding of how mankind fails to learn from history overall and what exactly stops us from governing well.

I am no anarchists, I do believe in enforcing contracts, running jails and providing national defense but it largely stops there. We can no more legislate opportunity than outcome. Laws pertaining to flashlights are especially stupid of which I have found many since the beginning of this thread.

I concentrate but am still unable to conjure a setting where a literate human being sits down to draft a document detailing something as asinine as allowable flashlight lengths. Were they bullied? Did their father not love them? Are they terrified angry mobs could rise, armed with flashlights? Have they been in a fist fight? Do they watch too many movies? Are they aware sticks exist?

Most of all, why can they not admit they have no way of correlating one less inch of flashlight length to an increase in public safety? They will however send armed people in funny blue costumes to match any level of resistance up to and including your deletion should you resist surrendering your noncompliant item.

What a strange world.
 
Last edited:

Galane

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Jul 6, 2022
Messages
163
Location
Idaho
Putting it all together I am interesting in stupid laws because they demonstrate the collective capacities and inner workings of the neurotypical world. When I hear arguments supporting stupid laws, programs, taxes and so on I get a better understanding of how mankind fails to learn from history overall and what exactly stops us from governing well.

I am no anarchists, I do believe in enforcing contracts, running jails and providing national defense but it largely stops there. We can no more legislate opportunity than outcome. Laws pertaining to flashlights are especially stupid of which I have found many since the beginning of this thread.

I concentrate but am still unable to conjure a setting where a literate human being sits down to draft a document detailing something as asinine as allowable flashlight lengths. Were they bullied? Did their father not love them? Are they terrified angry mobs could rise, armed with flashlights? Have they been in a fist fight? Do they watch too many movies? Are they aware sticks exist?

Most of all, why can they not admit they have no way of correlating one less inch of flashlight length to an increase in public safety? They will however send armed people in funny blue costumes to match any level of resistance up to and including your deletion should you resist surrendering your noncompliant item.

What a strange world.

Laws don't stop crimes, they *define* what a crime is, as considered by the people who write the laws, we hope with the informed backing and support of the people who voted for the law writers.

That's why in the USA they're not supposed to make any "ex-post-facto" or after the fact law. No deciding to make something a crime to go after someone who did the thing in the past.

Of course they're aware that sticks, and rocks, exist, along with all other sorts of objects that have been used by humans to injure or kill other humans. Injuries and deaths by bludgeoning in the USA exceed the number of injuries and deaths where shotguns or rifles were the weapon. Yet there's no hue and cry to ban baseball bats, golf clubs, and walking sticks. Forget environmental concerns, why not ban motor vehicles since they're involved in far more deaths?
 

Bull-Dozer

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Sep 1, 2020
Messages
92
---Galane--- Regarding the powers that be, lawmakers and otherwise, I do not know of any nation that is ran as a meritocracy. In the US I have seen a former president's son take the throne and a former president's wife come close. In all the land these were the most qualified individuals at the time and just happened to be direct relation to former presidents? That's either phenomenal coincidence, unholy providence or overt nepotism. Same fruit all the way down the vine.

Even local levels all to often devolve into town sized HOAs. Point being politics are popularity contests on par with a sleazy first date. I loathe participation because I find no dignity in the morning-after walk of shame when yet another campaign loses bearing and goes deaf. We are tax cattle and ballot groupies.

I should add, in my current town the mayor and his extended family are still in real estate in their private careers. He now makes real estate related decisions through out the city as mayor. One hand does in fact wash the other. Not too long ago a ring of city officials were busted skimming money the next city over. My home town is not much different. The city board just so happens to typically decide in favor of ventures that personally benefit them, demonstrating the difference between moral and legal. I ask again, coincidence?

Refreshing to hear you know fists, feet and blunt objects lead all else. That is never revealed in the main stream media. You may have also spotted the media's growing practice of typically avoiding mentioning race and/or showing a picture of an assailant unless it is a straight, white, male. Happens consistently enough in my local programming to the point of being predictable. Long line of coincidences these days.
 
Last edited:

jtr1962

Flashaholic
Joined
Nov 22, 2003
Messages
7,505
Location
Flushing, NY
Forget environmental concerns, why not ban motor vehicles since they're involved in far more deaths?
I've often given that, among other reasons, for reducing automotive dependency. Frankly, if any other mode had this many deaths (40K+ annually) the NTSB would shut it down until it could be made safer. Look what happens when planes or trains crash. There's a thorough NTSB investigation. There are sometimes new laws or regulations resulting from that investigation. When two motorists crash into each other, the cop takes a report and that's pretty much it. Not to mention licensing standards in this country are beyond lax.

Anyone with a bit of common sense could have easily forseen a century ago that the idea of mass motoring, with most people being allowed to drive a motor vehicle, would be an unmitigated disaster. Most people lack the intelligence, coordination, spatial ability, or proper attitude to pilot a motor vehicle. No amount of training can fix that. Yet here we are a century and millions of deaths later, with no signs of trying to fix this mistake. Supposedly autonomous vehicles might do that, but of course that means manual driving on public roads will have to be outlawed. However, autonomous vehicles still don't even come close to fixing the myriad other problems with a car-based transportation system and low-density settlement patterns.

Regarding ex-post-facto laws, we did exactly that with student loans. At least twice. First when we made it much harder to discharge loans in bankruptcy, and applied that to all loans, not just ones taken out after the law was passed. Second when we removed the statute of limitations (and again applied it to all existing loans). We also let collection companies routinely add fees well beyond those allowed in the promissory note, although this wasn't due to a change of law, but rather lack of enforcement of the existing contracts.
---Galane--- Regarding the powers that be, lawmakers and otherwise, I do not know of any nation that is ran as a meritocracy. In the US I have seen a former president's son take the throne and a former president's wife come close. In all the land these were the most qualified individuals at the time and just happened to be direct relation to former presidents? That's either phenomenal coincidence, unholy providence or overt nepotism. Same fruit all the way down the vine.
Sadly, very little in either the private or public realm uses merit as a criteria. If it did, the people who got the best grades, and had positions requiring a higher level of education, would earn the most. Instead, earning potential seems to be mostly a factor of luck (i.e. being in the right place at the right time), combined with who you know. I was actually shocked when I learned employers rarely or never look at grades. If that's the case, all schools should just be pass/fail. Why should I have wasted many nights studying until 3AM when I could have been having fun? In the end, I feel like a chump when many of the people who might have barely passed are doing better than me. I don't just mean in terms of earnings, but their entire lives.

Society loses too when intelligent people end up underemployed, while unqualified people end up in positions where they screw up royally.

If I have a degree of passion about anything it is my dislike for being held to the lowest common denominator. That excuse is a black hole used to justify every manner of excessive and immoral control and syphoning. Reminds me of the dull pace and shallow experiences of my public school years.
Same here. In fact, least common denominator was one reason I never bothered getting a driver's license (the other being that I live in NYC where I really don't need one). At the time, the national speed limit was a ridiculously low 55 mph. Meanwhile, I'd been in cars with people on highways doing more than twice that speed. It wasn't unsafe, provided you had the skills to handle it. So I got to thinking, why don't driver's licenses have tiers, where you're allowed to go faster if you demonstrate more proficiency, as opposed to limiting everyone to the speed a granny with arthritis can handle? Same thing with other facets of driving, like using stop signs when yields will do, or overuse of traffic signals, including telling people when they can make left turns.

I hated grade school. The class ran at the pace of the slowest kids and the disruptive kids. The latter were especially irksome. I suspect one reason I ended up with severe CTS by my late 20s was being forced to write "I must not talk in class" hundreds of times a week despite hardly saying a word. The teachers at the time used "group" punishment, instead of targeting just the offenders. That's about as dumb as it gets. If you're going to be punished for something anyway, might as well do it.
 
Last edited:

Bull-Dozer

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Sep 1, 2020
Messages
92
---jtr1962--- Last I saw the numbers, vehicle accidents were in the top ten causes of deaths nationally in the states. I tried cycling to work for a few months. I enjoyed it but ultimately hung it up due to the inattention of motorists related to a few close calls. The health benefits of cycling were out weighed by the potential for being struck.

My small suburban city government spent millions (literally) to study bike lanes and over a million more implementing them on one underwhelming stretch of road. Fast forward half a decade and the bicycle lanes were still empty. They were painted over, signage removed and nobody held accountable for the massive waste of resources.

Cycling is comfortable and relaxing even in cold weather. I miss it. There is another problem in my area though. Bike shops here act like high end car dealerships. Uppity, over priced, better than everybody. For all the social justice propaganda they hang on their walls they are some of the most smug, impolite, unlikeable people. I am positive this turns away a good number of would-be cyclists.

I especially cannot stand cyclists that thrive on the status of new bikes and gear especially when the cycling community (so called) is supposed to be all about sustainability. My Trek 7000 hybrid is over a decade old and what meaningful advancements has Trek made to that style of bike? Other than strip mining resources to slap batteries on newer models and rebranding the same old same, nothing has advanced.

If any decent mode of conveyance can be easily and affordably made to last it's bicycles especially when sticking to the basics. But the basics are seen as boring and so snapped carbon frames and seized disc brakes cause a lot of unnecessary injuries the world over but they fly off the shelves because people are gullible.
 
Last edited:

jtr1962

Flashaholic
Joined
Nov 22, 2003
Messages
7,505
Location
Flushing, NY
---jtr1962--- Last I saw the numbers, vehicle accidents were in the top ten causes of deaths nationally in the states. I tried cycling to work for a few months. I enjoyed it but ultimately hung it up due to the inattention of motorists related to a few close calls. The health benefits of cycling were out weighed by the potential for being struck.

My small suburban city government spent millions (literally) to study bike lanes and over a million more implementing them on one underwhelming stretch of road. Fast forward half a decade and the bicycle lanes were still empty. They were painted over, signage removed and nobody held accountable for the massive waste of resources.

Cycling is comfortable and relaxing even in cold weather. I miss it. There is another problem in my area though. Bike shops here act like high end car dealerships. Uppity, over priced, better than everybody. For all the social justice propaganda they hang on their walls they are some of the most smug, impolite, unlikeable people. I am positive this turns away a good number of would-be cyclists.

I especially cannot stand cyclists that thrive on the status of new bikes and gear especially when the cycling community (so called) is supposed to be all about sustainability. My Trek 7000 hybrid is over a decade old and what meaningful advancements has Trek made to that style of bike? Other than strip mining resources to slap batteries on newer models and rebranding the same old same, nothing has advanced.

If any decent mode of conveyance can be easily and affordably made to last it's bicycles especially when sticking to the basics. But the basics are seen as boring and so snapped carbon frames and seized disc brakes cause a lot of unnecessary injuries the world over but they fly off the shelves because people are gullible.
Ironically, the problems you experienced trying to ride are just another facet of mass motoring where almost everyone drives, but most drivers are grossly incompetent. We want more people on bicycles, raise licensing standards so some large fraction of the population is unable to pass the driver's test. This isn't even social engineering in any sense of the word. Rather, it's making the licensing procedure reflect the skills really needed to drive safely. Would a person want to fly on a 747 when the pilot barely qualified to fly a Cessna? Of course not. So why should we have driver licensing procedures so dumbed down anyone with a pulse can pass?

I bought a titanium bike in 2011 exactly because I don't trust carbon. I'm still using it. The only real advancement I've seen in bicycles over the last 20 or so years has been going from 5 or 6 sprockets in the rear to up to 12 or 13. This allows you to ditch the front derailleur while still having a wide gear range, plus closely spaced gears. Of course, there have also been advancements in bike computers. I just recently started using a hub sensor. I didn't even know they existed until this year. Much better than magnets.

I learned to work on my bike decades ago so as to avoid bike shops. Even if the owners don't have a smug attitude, they all tend to be very expensive for routine repairs.

The one real improvement we can make to bicycles isn't carbon frames or disc brakes. It's putting an aero shell around the bike. Or in other words, making velomobiles cost effective enough for the masses. A good velomobile more than doubles the speed a person can reach with the same amount of power. Instead of cruising at 15 to 20 mph, you could be going 35 to 50 mph. Speed is what has made one form of transportation displace another. Of course, we can gain the extra speed by slapping on a motor/batteries, but aerodynamic improvements help whether the bike is human or battery powered.

The problem with bike lanes is localities often end up putting them only where they get the least pushback from motorists. Put them on a major arterial while getting rid of parking or a travel lane, you'll hear vociferous complaining. So they put the lanes on side roads which are often useless for actual travel. Cyclists prefer arterials for the same reasons drivers do. But the locality can then say we added x miles of bike lanes this year, while glossing over the fact those lanes are nearly useless. Ever map out a trip on Google selecting "bicycle" as the mode? You often get some confusing route with a gazillion turns on roads I would never use. This is a product of putting bike lanes where they're politically expedient, instead of useful. One of my ideas is to put bike lanes on viaducts over arterials. The downside is cost. It would only be cost effective in large cities where the volume of riders would justify it.
 
Top