Sunwayman T20C (1x18650, 2xR/CR123A, XP-G R5) Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS +

[selfbuilt]

Here, the T20C is brighter coz it's a newer R5, but boy Sunwaymen have short throws?

The T20C XP-G R5 has quite resonable throw for the size of the head. The Lumintop TD15 series lights have a much deeper reflector, for greater throw.

It's true that most of the high-output Sunwayman lights (like the M40C, M60R, etc.) are not particularly throwy. That is because Sunwayman opted to go with shallower reflectors (for wider spill but less throw). :shrug:

But that's the nice thing about having so many choices to choose from - you can always find something somewhere that matches your needs.

 

[dalauriano]

Very interesting this flashlight.

 

[peterharvey73]

I was having a hard time choosing between the Sunwaymen M20C, T20C and Jetbeam RRT-2.
All are compact twin battery; easy to carry around, but more serious than a single battery torch - but not a huge as a multi 6xCR123 RRT-3.
Only Jetbeam and Sunwayman offer a combination of style and performance.
The M20C R5 is only rated at 280 lumens and 1.5 hours run time, whereas the RRT-2 R5 is rated at 300 lumens and 2 hours run time.
The T20C T6 looks a corny black or black brown, is missing a magnetic ring and tail stand, and has a corny looking tactical ring towards the tail.
All three are very good. Very close contest.
Splitting hairs, in the end, I got a Jetbeam RRT-2 R5.

I can tell you the RRT-2 looks great.
Jetbeams actually look very athletic, dynamic, sporty and masculine.
While Sunwaymen look conservative, and gentlemanly, or even feminine.

RRT-2 as a nice magnetic ring and tail switch.
Now having own one, I can tell you that I think manufacturers should have BOTH a magnetic ring AND a tail switch.
This is because we hold falshlights in many different ways.
From a knife stabbing, overhand, "secure" four fingers over the top.
To a cigar-like hold with two fingers over the top for more dexterity and "maneuverability".
While a pen-hold grip with only one finger over the top is difficult for such a big heavy flash light!
Finally, there is the conventional "hand shake" grip with four fingers under the torch like a tenis racket.
The fingers over the top hold all need the tail end switch.
While the handshake grip uses the magnetic ring.
Interestingly, the Jetbeam RRT-0 with strobe, standby, low, medium and high has the best order of sequence for the magnetic ring.
Meanwhile, the Sunwayman T20C's "hold down" the tail end for low, medium and high, and "click twice" for strobe is the finest in tail end switch design!
In my opinion, all flash lights should have both the RRT-0's magnetic ring and the T20C's tail end switch combined!
In future, the standby mode on the ring should be a permanent off! Not just standby.
Btw, the lowest setting on the RRT-2 should be even lower; it is too bright, or maybe have the RRT-0's wonderful continuously variable settings!

They gave me an OP reflector, which is not the best for maximum throw, but gives a beautifully clean beam.
Throw may be slightly diminished, but I'n not exactly sure how much diminished, like 10% loss in throw, or 30% loss in throw - I can't exactly tell you.
I could have gone either way: smooth or orange peel.

The 2xCR123's are a smaller diameter than 1x18650 rechargeable, however there is no battery rattling in the RRT-2 whatsoever.

My only negative with the Jetbeam RRT-2 is that the "head" is huge and heavy!
The RRT-2 is 145 mm long over the M20C & T20C's 132 mm.
Plus 33 mm in head diameter over the other two's 32 mm.
This extra 13 mm is all in the head, for a deep parabolic reflector for long throw!
Because of the head heaviness, the RRT-2 has an uncomfortable cigar hold!
The M20C and T20C I suspect would be much better in this respect with it's smaller heads, and a more comfortable hold?
Can't be sure since I've never held the Sunwaymen before; they may all be head heavy?
However, then some people would say that due to the masculine nature of the Jetbeams, it's just as well that they have a big heavy head for maximum throw..

Had I gotten the T20C, I would have missed out on the magnetic ring for the conventional handshake grip, plus the T20C styling looks so corny compared to the M20C.
The M20C is more attractive, but why only 280 lumens output and 1.5 hours duration; both spec ratings behind and inferior to the other two...

 

[peterharvey73]

Having almost purchased the Sunwayman T20C and M20C, and having used the Jetbeam RRT-2 R5, I don't find the multi-mode magnetic ring that comfortable and ergonomic to use. The ring is actually rather uncomfortable to use.

The tail end click is also uncomfortable as it forces you to hold the flashlight by the "overhand" with all four fingers over the top, or by the "cigar" hold with two fingers over the top, and these flashlights are so "head" heavy that such a hold is uncomfortable.
Although the T20C and M20C have slightly shorter, narrower and lighter heads than the RRT-2, I don't imagine they'd be much lighter in the heads.
A conventional hand shake grip is more comfortable, but requires either a magnetic ring switch, or a conventional button!

However, I would actually recommend manufacturers either use one (1) conventional button, and in particular two (2) conventional buttons in-line if the flashlight is big enough, rather than the magnetic ring.
The magnetic ring is NOT as comfortable to use as a conventional push button.
The magnetic ring has an advantage in being able to accommodate multiple modes.
However, conventional more comfortable push buttons can also achieve multiple modes if they emulate the superb Sunwayman T20C push button design, where holding the button down alternates between modes like low, medium and high, while double clicking gives the strobe!
Alternatively, if the flashlight body is big and long enough, manufacturers could use two (2) in-line buttons: one to switch on and off, while the other to alternate between modes.
If manufacturers do use the twin push button design, please do not place the switches left and right like certain Fenix models.
They should be place in-line with the main on/off button in front, while the mode button behind.
Note that in-line, the front button further away is more comfortable to press than the button behind, which is too close to the hand, and requires you to uncomfortably curl your thumb up.

On the subject of OP orange peel reflectors, I do note that Selfbuilt in a previous test
" http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...iew-RUNTIMES-BEAMSHOTS-DETAILED-PICS-and-more! ",
did find that Jetbeam Jet III smooth and OP reflectors had NO difference, or little difference in throw, so he recommended that you may as well go for an OP reflector to rid those untidy artifacts in the beam, as the T20C has also done here, and as Sunwayman have done in most of their models...

 

[peterharvey73]

Having almost purchased the Sunwayman T20C and M20C, and having used the Jetbeam RRT-2 R5, I don't find the multi-mode magnetic ring that comfortable and ergonomic to use. The ring is actually rather uncomfortable to use.

The tail end click is also uncomfortable as it forces you to hold the flashlight by the "overhand" with all four fingers over the top, or by the "cigar" hold with two fingers over the top, and these flashlights are so "head" heavy that such a hold is uncomfortable.
Although the T20C and M20C have slightly shorter, narrower and lighter heads than the RRT-2, I don't imagine they'd be much lighter in the heads.
A conventional hand shake grip is more comfortable, but requires either a magnetic ring switch, or a conventional button!

However, I would actually recommend manufacturers either use one (1) conventional button, and in particular two (2) conventional buttons in-line if the flashlight is big enough, rather than the magnetic ring.
The magnetic ring is NOT as comfortable to use as a conventional push button.
The magnetic ring has an advantage in being able to accommodate multiple modes.
However, conventional more comfortable push buttons can also achieve multiple modes if they emulate the superb Sunwayman T20C push button design, where holding the button down alternates between modes like low, medium and high, while double clicking gives the strobe!
Alternatively, if the flashlight body is big and long enough, manufacturers could use two (2) in-line buttons: one to switch on and off, while the other to alternate between modes.
If manufacturers do use the twin push button design, please do not place the switches left and right like certain Fenix models.
They should be place in-line with the main on/off button in front, while the mode button behind.
Note that in-line, the front button further away is more comfortable to press than the button behind, which is too close to the hand, and requires you to uncomfortably curl your thumb up.

On the subject of OP orange peel reflectors, I do note that Selfbuilt in a previous test
" http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...iew-RUNTIMES-BEAMSHOTS-DETAILED-PICS-and-more! ",
did find that Jetbeam Jet III smooth and OP reflectors had NO difference, or little difference in throw, so he recommended that you may as well go for an OP reflector to rid those untidy artifacts in the beam, as the T20C has also done here, and as Sunwayman have done in most of their models...

 

[supranatural]

peterharvey I'm sure whether you like the magnetic ring or not by your two previous posts? Either way I am glad that you brought this up with the Sunway T20C. This has to be one of the biggest contributing factors as to what flashlight to purchase, and I cannot say enough how much I despise programmable lights or head and tail cap twisting of any sort. The only exception to mode switching would be a system like the Fenix TK-15 and others that work in a similar manner. I was very discouraged to see Sunway make this move away from their traditional line of magnetic ring switching. Sunway makes some quality lights IMO and would love to see them keep their traditional modes of operation.

I had ended up going with the Jetbeam RRT-1 because of their easy access light control ring. I only hope Jetbeam ends up making these torches (RRT-1 & RRT-2) with the XM-L LED's in the future. These lights are so nice to look at as well as being very functional.

 

[peterharvey73]

Thinking that Sunways are nice, elegant and feminine, I was thinking of getting my missus a Sunway V10R Ti:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...tbeam-TC-R2-and-Sunwayman-Ti-V10R-PHOTO-HEAVY!
The review here says it's very good, and I agree there's not much difference between the two titanium flashlights Jetbeam TC-R2 and Sunway V10R Ti.
The TC-R2 bigger, more powerful, more masculine, most importantly, the TC-R2 magnetic ring had a "Standby" & strobe, and a proper belt clip secured by two screws!
JB also uses a brighter and more polished Ti surface which my missus liked.
The V10R Ti is generally more feminine, but my missus wanted the TC-R2, so I got her that.
The TC-R2 is just a Ti version of RRT-0 really, but it does have the best belt clip, and a more powerful 310 lumen Cre XP-G S2 emitter.

Supranatural, your RRT-1 with midsize 48mm head, the M1xm & RRT-3 with 63mm heads all have big reflectors and throw superbly.
I wish Selfbuilt would do more reviews on Jetbeams, esp the RRT-0, 1 and 3; I know there are other Jetbeam reviews on CPF, but Selfbuilt's are the best - lately, he even gives you the maximum distance where the flashlight is only delivering 0.25 lumens, so you know how far the maximum throw is.
Besdides, there is nothing wrong with several different reviews with several different opinions.

On this topic of "switch gear".
I can appreciate why only the "big" flashlights use buttons - which are the most comfortable, ergonomic to use.
For a small flashlight, such waterproof rubber buttons are bulky and being rubber, lack longevity.
For compact flashlights with only one or two CR123's, I can understand the love for magnetic rings and tail end switches, plus head and tail cap twisting etc.
Supranatural, you are right about head and tail cap twisting - it often requires two-handed operation - so it's a no no.

I can actually think of another solution for manufacturers - how about a spring-loaded, thin, flat, metal slide? For a compact flashlight, this is more compact than a button.
It could be a one-way slide backwards only, or a two-way slide backwards and forwards.
One-way: sliding backwards will turn on and off, while holding the slide will jump between low, medium and high, back down to medium and low etc, while two quick slides gives you the strobe!
Two-way slide: sliding backwards turns on, and changes between low, medium and high etc, while sliding forwards turns off! For the strobe, we could either hold the slide backwards, or do two quick slides.

If manufacturers want the switchgear to be very compact, then the magnetic ring combined with the tail end switch is still the most compact!
I have a RRT-2, it has standby - that's great - something the Sunways should have.
However, on the RRT2, after standby, comes strobe, then low, medium, high.
Like Selfbuilt said on http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...aptor-(R2)-Review-RUNTIMES-BEAMSHOTS-and-more!, that's quite silly to have strobe there - I don't know if Supranatural agrees on his RRT-1?
Strobe should either be to the left, then standby, then low, medium, and hi like the RRT-0's and TC-R2's.
Or strobe should be to the far right after high, like the RRT-3 and most of the Sunways!
Btw, the standby's on all the Jetbeams should be genuine "off", not just standby, since the tail end switch is uncomfortable to hold overhand/cigar and head heavy, plus the body of the RRT-2 is a little short to hold overhand, but if the magnetic ring is moved forwards, then this will interfere with the head and reflector.

The only disadvantage of the 5 position magnetic ring, is that you cannot "combine" that with Sunways superb T20C tactical tail end switch, which moves from on/off, holds for low medium high, and double clicks for strobe.
We can't combine the five position ring with the T20C tactical tail end switch because the 5 position ring actually "locks in" the mode already!

However, if you think about it, you can combine the T20C's tactical multi-function tail end click with the compact magnetic ring, if that magnetic ring is NOT of the 5 or multi-position type.
How about using a one or two position spring loaded compact ring?
The spring loaded ring can be twisted to the left only, or to both left and right.
Left twist can switch on and between brightnesses.
While a right twist switches unit off etc.
Hold the twist down, or double twist the spring loaded ring, and it turns to strobe!

In the end, the current RRT-0 and TC-R2 design with magnetic ring: strobe, standby, lo, med, hi - modified to a real off [not just standby], and combined with the tail end clicky is very very good.
Also, an innovative one-way left, or two-way left and right spring-loaded compact ring with a tactical multi-function design like one twist on, lo, med, hi, right twist off, hold down or double twist left strobe, combined with the T20C design tactical multi-function tail end clicky here, would also be good.
A spring loaded thin metal sliding switch could be an alternative to ring, but not as compact as ring...

It helps if a flashlight is easy and comfortable to hold, and switch between modes...

 

[peterharvey73]

Btw, before we think about switches, we should think about hold/grip.

How we hold or grip the flashlight determines what type of switch design we prefer.
A favourite hold for police and military is the overhand grip - it is secure, and has great self defence if using the flashlight as a weapon - however, this overhand grip is more uncomfortable and tiring.
The cigar [or two fingers above] grip is more maneuverable and relaxing at chest height, but is very loose, and often the flashlight is too head heavy to make this grip comfortable.
However, both the overhand and the cigar grip, require the tail end clicky switch.

A very comfortable and relaxing grip, is the conventional four fingers below the flashlight underhand handshake grip - this grip prefers either the big deep waterproof rubber short longevity button, or the thin metal slide, or slightly uncomfortable but flush magnetic ring.

Hence I don't mind the 5 position Jetbeam magnetic rings, provided:
1) standby is re-designed into a genuine "off" [so we're not forced to use the uncomfortable tail end clicky,
2) the strobe should either be to the far left before the standby like RRT0 & TCR2, or the strobe should be to the far right after high mode, eg RRT3 and most Sunwaymen...

 

[Beamhead]

I clicked on a link to a review of the SWM T20C but found a Jetbeam infomercial. :thinking:
BUT WAIT.........call now and.................

 

[peterharvey73]

Sorry Beamhead - I must have gotten a little carried away.

But I can't wait till Marshall from www.goinggear.com does a youtube video review on the XML-T6 of the Sunwayman T20C soon....

 

[supranatural]

Totally agreed peterharvey about not only the switch-mode but also considering the hold/grip of the flashlight. I like the setup of the Sunway lights with the strobe being the last clockwise after high/max/or turbo. Haven't had any experience with the Jetbeam RRT-0's operation, but sounds to be a very easy to understand operation like the Sunways. Very nice lights btw, the RRT-0's

 

[Beamhead]

Just got the T20C XM-L, the tail cap switch is very unique, the output is on par with my Turbo X but less throw/more flood.
It fit my Redilast 18650/2900 fattys with ease, and cr123 fit with some rattle.
Mine is the same dark green as my other SWM ano lights.

Overall I really like this light the only drawback I see so far is not being able to lockout the tail cap without nearly removing it, the light may activate if I carry it in one of my cargo pockets.

 

[Beamhead]

Selfbuilt, have you noticed parasitic drain? Mine will wipe a 18650/2900 in 5-7 days just sitting.

 

[selfbuilt]

Selfbuilt, have you noticed parasitic drain? Mine will wipe a 18650/2900 in 5-7 days just sitting.

That's not good.

I am not able to directly measure the standby drain, since the electronic switch interacts the mechanical piston in an unusual way. Always a problem trying to measure it on any light with an electronic switch (e.g. the Novatac/HDS lights), although it's even more complicated here - you would presumably need to jury-rig a complicated setup connecting all the contact points outside the light.

But I can try popping in a full 18650 battery and let you know how it turns out. I'll report back next week ....

 

[Beamhead]

It's cold and raining yet again so I took apart the tail cap, it is purely mechanical so the drain issue may be in question although studying the way this switch works it may cause some constant contact perhaps on the piston end?
Let me know your results on yours and I'll check this 18650 cell.

 

[selfbuilt]

It's cold and raining yet again so I took apart the tail cap, it is purely mechanical so the drain issue may be in question although studying the way this switch works it may cause some constant contact perhaps on the piston end?
Let me know your results on yours and I'll check this 18650 cell.

Hmm, thanks. I suspected the switch was probably all mechanical (with the electronic component at the head of the piston), but wasn't sure.

It has only been 2 days, but I just examined the cell and it is still reading ~4.17-4.18V (was 4.19V fully charged 2 days ago). So that's perfectly normal self-discharge. I'll give it to next week and report back, but so far it doesn't look like standby drain is an issue on mine.

 

[Beamhead]

I measured mine after 2 days and it is 3.79V down from 4.18V.

 

[gunga]

I'm unsure, since I don't have this light, but is it similar to a large d10? If so, perhaps like the new d11's, some samples have large parasitic drain? Circuit defect perhaps?

 

[selfbuilt]

I measured mine after 2 days and it is 3.79V down from 4.18V.

I'm unsure, since I don't have this light, but is it similar to a large d10? If so, perhaps like the new d11's, some samples have large parasitic drain? Circuit defect perhaps?

Could be. In any case, that rate is awfully high - no wonder your cells were dead in a week. I would contact Sunwayman or your dealer.

P.S.: I'm assuming you've done a control experiment to make sure your cell isn't damaged (i.e. self-discharge when left on the shelf outside a light for 2 days?)

 

[Beamhead]

Different cell, the first is sitting in my Turbo X idle and reading 4.18v after 2 days.