Surefire 9P way too hot and short lived

[shawnf]

Not a complaint thread just sharing a story.

Needed a flashlight a while ago after loosing my old Surefire 2-cell (think it was 80 lumens) and decided to get the 9P and upgrade the lamp to a 200 lumen model. (This must be the most common mod right?)

One day the power went out and I was relieved because I just got this new super bright flashlight.

It was great for about 10 - 15 minutes. Ok, I didn't time it but it seemed like it.

It got super hot and turned itself off.

I switched the lamp back to the older (I think 100 lumens) and put newer batteries in.

This time it got super hot and the lamp burned out.

I'm thinking -- wait, it must be the batteries or something.

So I switched the direction the batteries went in and changed the lamp again.

Nope, same thing -- died in like 10 minutes got super hot.

I miss the older 80- lumen two -cell light now.

 

[T45]

I am going to go out on a limb here and say your 9P is busted/broken/not right....something. You switched the DIRECTION the batteries went and it TURNED ON?!?!? that's....mind boggling. Hope someone can figure this out. In the meantime, Call Surefire and get that 9P sent in for repair.

Not a complaint thread just sharing a story.

Needed a flashlight a while ago after loosing my old Surefire 2-cell (think it was 80 lumens) and decided to get the 9P and upgrade the lamp to a 200 lumen model. (This must be the most common mod right?)

One day the power went out and I was relieved because I just got this new super bright flashlight.

It was great for about 10 - 15 minutes. Ok, I didn't time it but it seemed like it.

It got super hot and turned itself off.

I switched the lamp back to the older (I think 100 lumens) and put newer batteries in.

This time it got super hot and the lamp burned out.

I'm thinking -- wait, it must be the batteries or something.

So I switched the direction the batteries went in and changed the lamp again.

Nope, same thing -- died in like 10 minutes got super hot.

I miss the older 80- lumen two -cell light now.

 

[skyfire]

try a LED drop-in. better efficiency than lamps.

a malkoff "low" drop-in such as a M61L, or M61WL would work nicely. its not the brightest drop-in, but has good runtimes and heat management.
and it can also use 2xAA cells with your 9P.

 

[Mikeg23]

I am going to go out on a limb here and say your 9P is busted/broken/not right....something. You switched the DIRECTION the batteries went and it TURNED ON?!?!? that's....mind boggling. Hope someone can figure this out. In the meantime, Call Surefire and get that 9P sent in for repair.

The Incan lamp doesn't car which way the batteries go as long as there all the same

 

[Norm]

The Incan lamp doesn't car which way the batteries go as long as there all the same

I'll move this out of the LED forum, into incan where it will be far less confusing.

Norm

 

[Brasso]

Yep. A 200 lumen incan lamp is going to get really hot. But, unlike led's, that's not a problem. They are actually more efficient when hot. The run time was short because you were running an incan lamp.

As someone here once said,

An incan produces light as a result of heat.
An led produces heat as a result of light.

 

[lightfooted]

An incandescent light with an ultra-high output (P91 lamp?) lamp got hot? Imagine that ...

Most likely the lamp failed somehow...may not have been top quality or something. Unless you were running RCR123s in it....which would have over driven the lamp.

Did you ever at any time and for any reason TOUCH the actual lamp? It's possible that body oils could have been on the glass bulb and that would have led to premature failure of the Xenon halogen lamp. Basically the oil would have caused the heat generated to be reflected back into the lamp....causing it to overheat and burn out.

Now I realize you did not actually say you were using an incandescent but without further information I have to go on just what was presented here.

 

[shawnf]

Yep. A 200 lumen incan lamp is going to get really hot. But, unlike led's, that's not a problem. They are actually more efficient when hot. The run time was short because you were running an incan lamp.

As someone here once said,

An incan produces light as a result of heat.
An led produces heat as a result of light.

Shoot you're right--it's a P91.
As I recall the last Surefire was an led (little green ball rather than little bulb with coil in it).
I'll try an led as this 15 minute stuff makes no sense except for tactical use, which I really have no use for.

 

[Illum]

died in 10 minutes and got super hot... assuming the P91, this should be perfectly normal. Are you sure the lamp burned out? Is there anything within the envelope that can confirm it was a filament/globe failure?

I've taken apart a 9P in front of me. the cathode end of the cells has a much bigger surface area than the anode. so if one of your lamps is crooked, reversing the batteries might have correctly seated your lamp. If that was the case though, the center spring can fatally bridge the body, causing the batteries to short out immediately after you depressed the tailcap.

What batteries were you using, and can you provide us with photos of your lamps?

I have several 9Ps, just none of them has seen a P91 and neither uses cr123as. Lotta love the P90+17500 setup :nana:

Most likely the lamp failed somehow...may not have been top quality or something. Unless you were running RCR123s in it....which would have over driven the lamp.

Did you ever at any time and for any reason TOUCH the actual lamp? It's possible that body oils could have been on the glass bulb and that would have led to premature failure of the Xenon halogen lamp. Basically the oil would have caused the heat generated to be reflected back into the lamp....causing it to overheat and burn out.

if it was 3xRCR123As, the P91 would not have lasted 10 minutes... if it did, those must've been dead dead rcr123as

I think the hazard about touching lamps has more to do with heat convection through the lamp envelope. oils from out skin trap the heat causing uneven cooling. Heatspots eventually causes the envelope to fail. For this reason, projector lamps often explode if handled by hand prior to installation. Had the thread op's lamp exploded... the results would have been more dramatic. But from reading his post I don't sense such a dramatic incident have existed. Perhaps

 

[Bullzeyebill]

You switched the DIRECTION the batteries went and it TURNED ON?!?!? that's....mind boggling. Hope someone can figure this out. In the meantime, Call Surefire and get that 9P sent in for repair.

The 9P Lamp Assembly is an incandecent LA (P90), and will turn on with batteries put in forward or backward. Just the nature of incandescent bulbs. Not so with LED's unless they have mechanical, or electrical reverse polarity protection.

Bill

 

[Kestrel]

I'm wondering if the PTC's in the CR123's were triggering due to overheating, possibly the front cell nearest the (hot) LA? (i.e. "thermal shutdown")

Anybody know if the CR123 PTC will reset after cooldown or does the cell permanently retire at that point?

OP, who was the manufacturer of each set of cells? (Please keep in mind that the cell stack really needs to be a matched set of CR123's to provide optimum performance - i.e. cells from the same 'batch'.)

Just throwing a few ideas out there ... :thinking:

 

[shawnf]

I'm wondering if the PTC's in the CR123's were triggering due to overheating, possibly the front cell nearest the (hot) LA? (i.e. "thermal shutdown")

Anybody know if the CR123 PTC will reset after cooldown or does the cell permanently retire at that point?

OP, who was the manufacturer of each set of cells? (Please keep in mind that the cell stack really needs to be a matched set of CR123's to provide optimum performance - i.e. cells from the same 'batch'.)

Just throwing a few ideas out there ... :thinking:

There were two sets -- Surefire SF123A and The Battery Station CR123A. These look identical but for the wrapper.

The bulb that burnt out was the original bulb that came with the 9P -- the bulb was blackish on the end and cloudy.

They did reset, as we fell asleep and the light came back on and woke us up.

 

[Vesper]

What's your budget for a new LED drop-in? I'm sure you'll get a ton of good suggestions.

 

[shawnf]

What's your budget for a new LED drop-in? I'm sure you'll get a ton of good suggestions.

I'd say less than 50$
I think a battery life of 2 hrs and 100 lumens would be ideal.
I wonder, is there a (lumens + time) rating, and extra weight given to lumens?
Something like 2(lumens) + (minutes).
For example, (a) 2(100 lumens) + (120 minutes) = 320 lumen-minutes.
(b) 2(80 lumens) + (240 minutes) = 400 lumen-minutes.
So (b) is the better light.

 

[Brasso]

Try Nailbender.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-G2-P60-STYLE-MODULES-COOLWHITES-amp-NEUTRALS

 

[Yoda4561]

At 100 lumens you're looking at a battery life in excess of 8 hours with current LEDs.

 

[HotWire]

I just burned out a Lumens Factory 9v bulb in my bored 9P with 2 AW IMR batteries. LF recommends this high output lamp stay on for no more than 10 minutes at a time. I was hunting black widow spiders in the back yard and probably had it on 15 minutes. Now I know. I've replaced it and use it for momentary inspections. I have other 9Ps for hunting spiders with both LED and low-output incandescent bulbs. Live & learn!

 

[Mikeg23]

I can't seem to get on lumens factorys website right now, but I seem to recall them having an extended runtime 9 volt that is not as bright.

 

[Vesper]

Look at Malkoff's chart on voltage/lumen to get an idea of runtimes. His lower lumen dropins have great light output along with nice long runtime.

http://www.malkoffdevices.com/compare-flashlights.php

 

[Illum]

There were two sets -- Surefire SF123A and The Battery Station CR123A. These look identical but for the wrapper.

The bulb that burnt out was the original bulb that came with the 9P -- the bulb was blackish on the end and cloudy.

They did reset, as we fell asleep and the light came back on and woke us up.

yep... thats a failed envelope on that lamp. Cloudy would mean tungsten reacted with oxygen entering from somewhere and formed tungsten trioxide [yellowish powder] while it was glowing hot. Despite being a consumer end product, that lamp was defective coming out of surefire. P90s should last well over 3-4 battery changes before failing. [I'd say so because I have yet to run my cr123A driven 9P past the 4th battery change]

I can't seem to get on lumens factorys website right now, but I seem to recall them having an extended runtime 9 volt that is not as bright.

Lumen factory made 3 lamps for the 3-cell P series as I recall. Lighthound has the specs up

EO-9
380 Lumens 
Runtime (3xCR123A): ~35 min
Runtime (2x3.7V Rechargeable): ~35 min

HO-9
320 Lumens
Runtime (3xCR123A): ~40 min
Runtime (2x3.7V Rechargeable): ~40 min

IMR-9
500 Lumens
Runtime (2 x IMR RCR123A): ~10 min
Runtime (2 x IMR 18650): ~35 min

Lighthound:
HO-9, EO-9, IMR-9