Surefire, Malkoff, Elzetta or other light for heavy duty pocket backup flashlight?

[Oztorchfreak]

Hi Guys.


I am looking for a really strong heavy duty reliable backup flashlight to fit in my pockets like a Surefire, Malkoff, Elzetta or any other good suggestion.

There are so many lights available nowadays that it is daunting for myself and any newbies especially to choose a good strong backup light and I have not included Henry's HDS lights only because the waiting times are much too long nowadays.

I would love a HDS rotary 200 lumen flashlight like the EDC-R1B-200 or the EDC-R1S-200 but most people would not be prepared to wait for the manufacturing and delivery times including myself.

I already have a collection of smaller EDC lights like Fenix, Olight, Jetbeam and Sunwayman brands but I would like to take it to the next level of durability.



This is the outline of what would be desirable.


Max Price - $250.

Lumens - 200 ballpark figure.

Battery - Rechargeable 16340 (RCR123) with CR123 support, 18650 or NIMH AA.

Durability - Proven.

Size - Pocketable.

Light levels - Moonlight, Low and Max if possible or variable control.




CHEERS :thinking:

 

[jamesmtl514]

Re: Surefire, Malkoff...

I'm one of the biggest surefire fanboys you'll find on here. That said, get a Malkoff MD2 hi-low ring with the dropin of your choice.
I have a M61 219 in mine. The tint is great and the light is a reliable tank. Feels much more beefy than a surefire 6P, 2 levels and a clicky tail...and its usually less expensive (shhh..)

Tonix will love that he got me to finally buy one...and be so happy with it.

 

[twl]

I have some examples of all of the above.

First, the Malkoffs.
They are essentially a refinement of the SureFire P60 system, and are are similar in size, and even more rugged(IMO). They are bored for 18xxx size cells already, and have hard anodizing, and are very reasonably priced hosts for American made product.
They are either single brightness mode, or you can get a Hi/Lo ring which is a 2 mode system, Hi and Lo. Hi is the max brightness of your drop-in, and Lo is about 10%-15% of that, depending on module and battery configuration.
Very highly reliable and rugged, weaponlight grade, and are in use in the roughest circumstances.
A little big to fit in a tight pants pocket, but you can do it if you want to. Easily goes into slacks or cargo pants pockets.You can buy a 2-cell(MD2), 3-cell(MD3), or 4-cell(MD4) body and switch. They "Lego" in fit. With the proper modules, you can use 1 x 18650, 2 x CR123 or 2 x RCR123, or 2 x 18350 in the MD2. And you can use 3 x Cr123 or RCR123, 2 x 18500 or 2 x 17500 or 2 x 14500 or 2 x AA with the appropriate voltage range modules in the MD3. And you can use 4 x CR123, 2 x 18650 in the appropriate voltage range modules in the MD4.
No moonlight.

The Elzetta is essentially a Malkoff light engine with a specialized mil-spec host that is about as break-resistant as anything I have ever seen. I really think that I could throw my Elzetta against a brick wall as hard as I can, and it would not break.
You can get 2 cell body or 3 cell body, and neither are bored for 18xxx size cells, so it's mostly a CR123 or RCR123 kind of deal.
You can get the tactical tailcap for twisty with momentary, or you can get the Hi/Lo twisty tailcap with momentary and latching clicky. I have the Hi/Lo tailcap and it's great. Basically like the Malkoff Hi/Lo system, except it's in the tailcap instead of the head. The stock M60 module gives a throwy 235 lumens on high, and about 15 lumens on low.
You can get the angular shaped head with or without crenelations, and you can get the cylindrical lo-profile head.
All the parts are interchangeable "Lego" system, so you can switch configurations around at will, if you have the extra parts.
ONLY Malkoff drop-in modules will fit this light unless you grind it and modify it internally. The up-side of that is that it provides the best thermal pathway possible for the Malkoff drop-ins.
My assessment is that this is the flashlight that is least likely to get broken in hard use than any other flashlight that exists anywhere.
Size is about the same as the Malkoffs, and length depends on the body you buy(2 cell or 3 cell).
Performance IS Malkoff, because it uses Malkoff drop-ins for its light engine.
No moonlight.

SureFire P60 system lights such as the 6P or 9P are the progenitor of both of the previous lights, and began the whole concept of these P60 type drop-ins in incandescent form. They will accept most any brand of drop-in, and are rugged and well-respected.
My personal feeling is that they are very good, but both of the previous brands have exceeded them as things moved along.
Still a very good host. Mostly will be a single mode brightness light, unless you buy a multi-mode drop-in and then your momentary function goes out the window and becomes mode-switching.
To me, the biggest advantage for the SureFire hosts is if you want to buy some other drop-in that is not a Malkoff, because any drop-in will fit the SureFire host. But they won't have the thermal performance of the Malkoff drop-ins because they won't have the perfect fit in the body. And you will probably lose some level of reliability/durability if you use any other drop-in besides a Malkoff.
The size is about the same as the previous lights described.
Some people like the styling of the SureFire hosts, and that might be a factor for some, because they are an iconic style and brand.
No moonlight, unless it's programmed into some drop-in that you buy from somebody.

Truthfully, any of these lights would be in the ballpark for as good as you can get for your needs of performance and reliability and ruggedness, except for the moonlight mode.
These are the cream of the crop.

I also use an Oveready TorchLab Moddoolar Pocket Triple for my pocket light, and it is also in that league of quality and ruggedness, but it's a short run-time high-powered(1600 lumens/500 lumens/16 lumens) 3-mode pocket light that is smaller than a Zebralight SC600 and twice as powerful.
But, it's out of your listed price category at about $300, and more powerful than you stated that you want.

If you want to talk about that one, I'll expound on it. But for right now, you stated $250 or under, and about 200 lumens output, so I'll let you tell me if you want to hear about the Pocket Triple.

 

[Darvis]

Durability usually means simplicity... that said, I'd stick to a single (two max) mode twisty style setup for the ultimate reliability and avoid any kind of variable control-ish rigs.

The elzetta is a solid choice, but they are 17mm hosts and you'd need to get one custom bored in order to use 18650's. Still, it's a great host and it can be had with a high/low tailcap and malkof drop-in. The best of both worlds. With your 250.00 cap, you could easily afford the set-up and get the host custom bored by someone here on the forums (oveready, precisionworks, etc.). There are plenty of 17mm rechargeables as well.

The Malkoff MD2 is an 18mm host and can be had with a hi/lo ring... an excellent turnkey option for well under 250.00, heck, you could buy 2 for that price. These come with McClicky switches which are great, but not as rock solid reliable as a twisty. The MD2 does have the ability to use any Surefire C series tailcap, so you could easily slap a twisty on it and have a very very solid light.

After that, any bored for 18mm surefire P60 host and a reliable drop-in (Malkoff, Nailbender, VinNyugen, etc.) will serve you well.

For me, what you describe has always been Malkoff in a P60 host with a twisty switch. One level, an IMR battery (eliminates the PCB) and a twisty. I've had, on more than one occassion, had both PCB's and clicky switches fail on me while hiking and have since avoided them both when I absolutely need a light to work. For even better odds, go with a custom direct drive drop-in (I've yet to have a Malkoff die on me, though, so I tend to trust them).

I'm not saying there are lights out there with clickies and various controls that are not as proven as what I mention above, there certainly are many, but for me... if it has to work, it's the basics.

Hope that helps!

D

EDIT: LOL! As I was posting, twl essentially summed it up before me.. could not agree more with what he said, and Oveready lego's are my favorites!!

 

[Oztorchfreak]

Hi twl.


I thought I could write long posts.

I think you win in that area right now!

I have just sent Elzetta an email asking about the use of rechargeable batteries in the Elzetta ZFL-60 flashlight.

You have already answered that one for me I think.

Can it use RCR123 (16340) batteries as it is not apparent on their website, only the word CELL is used?

I have plenty to digest and yes I would like to know about the Oveready triple please.

There is no such thing as information overload in my book at least.

I have the Zebralight SC600 but I really would like something a lot tougher than that light.

I would never punish my SC600 or any of my current collection the way that Elzetta do with the ZFL-M60 by disassembling and then reassembling it underwater or driving nails into timber with it like the Elzetta videos demonstrate.

Those videos show some pretty powerful stuff.

I suppose it should be able to take that treatment considering that the price is up there with the other high quality heavy duty EDC flashlights, but WOW!



CHEERS

 

[Erzengel]

If You're considering Malkoff drop ins, You should take care of the necessary voltage. The M60, which are Elzettas default, require 3.8V for regulation, which is too much for one cell. In this case You should get two 16340s.

 

[jamesmtl514]

Excellent summaries guys! !

 

[twl]

Hi twl.


I thought I could write long posts.

I think you win in that area right now!

I have just sent Elzetta an email asking about the use of rechargeable batteries in the Elzetta ZFL-60 flashlight.

You have already answered that one for me I think.

Can it use RCR123 (16340) batteries as it is not apparent on their website, only the word CELL is used?

I have plenty to digest and yes I would like to know about the Oveready triple please.

There is no such thing as information overload in my book at least.

I have the Zebralight SC600 but I really would like something a lot tougher than that light.

I would never punish my SC600 or any of my current collection the way that Elzetta do with the ZFL-M60 by disassembling and then reassembling it underwater or driving nails into timber with it like the Elzetta videos demonstrate.

Those videos show some pretty powerful stuff.

I suppose it should be able to take that treatment considering that the price is up there with the other high quality heavy duty EDC flashlights, but WOW!

CHEERS

Hi,

Basically the Elzetta is a Malkoff with a new body. It will take 2 x RCR123(16340) in the 2 cell body.
The M60 will accept that voltage, and it will run in regulation for the entire run time of the batteries. However, the M60 and M61 are both able to run in regulation for a short time on one 4.2v lithium-ion cell like a 17670 in this case with a 2 cell body, and have a short run in regulation and a very long mild taper-off of the brightness. Some people like this because it gives a long warning that the light is dimming, and you don't get the light clicked-off when the protection circuit of the battery kicks in. You can put a new battery in when it gets dim to a certain extent. So, different people run these modules different ways. You just want to be sure to NOT over-voltage them. You must pay attention to the maximum voltage rating.
I have the 3 cell body, but it's longer and might not be as convenient to carry as the 2 cell is.
When you hold this light in your hand, it is the definition of feeling indestructible. You can feel it.

Anyway, about the Oveready Pocket Triple.
It's an awesome light with a lot of configuration possibilities, and it can be very small in some of them.
Basically it comes down to the smaller you configure it, the shorter the run time. It's very attractive to configure it very small, and that's what I do, but I carry a couple of extra batteries with me. It's fully "Lego-able" with all the Moddoolar bodies and tailcaps and heads, and can be adapted to SureFire body parts too. It's very versatile, but it runs into some money getting all the parts to do these things.

So, I'll go into a few of my configurations for you, and describe them.

Here's my Triple XPG2 Cool White with 1600 lumen output. This configuration is called the "Shorty 50".
The max output is 1600 lamp lumens, so the OTF is somewhat less, probably around 1400 lumens OTF is my rough guess. Then medium is about 500 lumens, and low is about 16 lumens.
The pieces are the Triple XPG2 H3C Cool L/M/H head in black, with a Slim TL50 body tube, and a Diamondback tailcap with the ZeroRez Shorty switch eliminator taht makes it a twisty-only, but it allows the use of 2 x 18350 cells for max output, or a single 18650 for lower output and longer run time. This is the smallest configuration which allows full regulated output, and is right about at 4". Maybe a hair longer.
Here it is with a 18650 storage capsule and a business card from Oveready.

Next is the same head and tail with the same ZeroRez Shorty switch eliminator, for a single IMR18350 configuration called the "Stubby".
It's 2.75" long, and puts out 1100 lamp lumens at full output on the single battery.
It consists of the TL20 body which is too short to use any battery in, unless you make room for it with the ZeroRez Shorty switch eliminator in the tailcap, which gives you 15mm extra room, so you can fit that IMR18350 battery in it.
In this single battery configuration, it doesn't run in regulation at all. It starts out with as much as the single battery can produce at first, which is about 1100 lumens, and has a constant taper down until it runs do the 3v lower limit that the light has built in for warning, and the warning light begins to blink the light,. You should take that battery out before that happens, or at worst you should take it out when that happens, so that the battery is saved. IMR batteries are safe chemistry, but they are not protected, so don't run them down below 3v.
And you MUST use IMR 18350 in the 18350 configuration because it needs to supply gobs of current to run this 15 watt light engine. It will pull too much power to run an RCR123(16340). The minimum is one IMR18350.
Here's the Stubby.

I also have a Hard Anodized Gray(Natural) Pocket Triple from last year with the 10 watt engine and 3 x XPE Neutral 4500k behind the optics which gives a lower output but decent throw from the XPE emitters, and a neutral tint. It's about 1000 lamp lumens with 2 batteries, and 700 lumens with one battery, and the medium is 30% and the low is 1%, depending on what battery configuration you use you'll get that percentage of max on the medium and low modes.
On this one here with one battery(IMR18350) it's 700/210/7 for H/M/L, and it has the "Triad Tailcap" with the McClicky switch in it, and the TL35 body, and the stainless steel crenelated bezel and Ultra-Clear Lens.

These are all weaponlight rated heads and circuits, and they are super rugged. However, with the UCL lens, it's glass which can be broken. So, I treat it with care because it's an expensive light that I don't want to harm. But it could take a lot if it needed to. The glass might break, but it wouldn't be out of action. There are other lens options if you feel you might want to use a different lens. There are different bezel options too.
And there are selections of high output cool, or somewhat lower output Nichia 219 neutral LEDs for the people who want the High CRI stuff.
And even though the HA Gray Natural heads are not currently available, they should be back in stock in a couple months. It's limited production stuff, so it's common that certain variations get sold out and not available for a while. Triad tailcaps are currently out of stock too, but they will be back in a couple months from now, too. You have to grab this stuff when you can, because there are people sitting there just waiting for the part they want to come in stock, and they buy it right away. So, you need to be quick.

A word about run time.
In the single battery configurations with a single IMR18350, the run times are SHORT because it's BRIGHT.
You can expect maybe 15-20 minutes and that's all, on that one battery. It will never be in regulation on one battery, so it tapers, and as the battery depletes, when you switch to high, the output will not be as bright as when the battery was fresh.
This is the minimum configuration, and it is SHORT, so I always carry a couple of spares with my in that battery capsule.
On medium only, you could get maybe 50 minutes off one battery, and on low only you can get about 30 hours off one battery.

If you want to run an 18500 or 18650 or two of them, you can get longer battery tubes which allow it.
These are longer, and you may or may not like to carry a longer light, but if you do want to, the body options are there for you to select.

I personally like the Shorty 50 configuration the best, because it gives the highest output in the smallest size with 2 IMR18350 batteries.
The Stubby is smaller, but it has the reduced output and no regulation. Sometimes I take that one if I feel like "extra small" that day.
Anyway, you can configure them the way you want, so it's fun.
Get the battery storage capsule, because you'll want it with the short run times.

These things will blow your mind with the amount of output coming from such incredibly small packages.
It is just so much fun!
The build quality is great, and they are like little jewels.
One thing I have noticed is that since I got these things, it's hard for me to justify getting any other lights because these have so much power in such a small package that it almost obsoletes everything else available. Except in the run time department, and a few extra batteries in the storage capsule can help that out a lot.

 

[Mathiashogevold]

Reference and response to members "fishing" for sales,removed.

 

[leon2245]

Quote and reaponse to a "fishing" post removed.

Otherwise GREAT light, & I THINK they ARE actually UNDER the OP's stated BUDGET too.

 

[Erzengel]

What amount of regulated runtime do You need? this can be an issue with the Elzettas because they only accept 16mm and 17 mm cells. They can't compare to the 18650s in the amount of stored energy at the necessary current and voltage level. If You look at HKJs comparison for a 1Amp discharge down to 3.4V, You'll can see that there are enough 18650s available which deliver a little bit more than 2Ah at a 1A discharge. This should be enough to run a M61 regulated for almost two hours.

 

[snakyjake]

I'm seriously considering Surefire P2X Fury. 500 lumens. Large head for a great beam. Don't want 18mm to rattle the primary batteries. Not comfortable running protected lithiums in my lights because I don't like how they cut-off the light.

 

[Oztorchfreak]

Hi guys.


Thanks for the great suggestions and information that I am still digesting.

Sometimes it is a long road you guys send me and others down in a search for what we all want in a flashlight but it is better than having no user experience at all to call upon.

It does at least give us some key pointers to follow up on what could be good in full detail when we go to the websites where your suggestions lead us to.

Please keep them coming in as I am following up every suggestion as fast as I can as fast as my spare time allows me to.

You guys are the best!

You guys are not just helping me but others in the same boat as I offer my thoughts when I am able to.

This is what a Lighting Forum is really all about.



CHEERS

 

[EzGoingKev]

Will the Elzetta head install on a Surefire body?

 

[peter yetman]

I keep a Malkoff MD2 / M61 / 18650 on me at all times. It's a durable and useful tool.
I've just ordered an MD1 tube from Martin White

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...tions-to-convert-Malkoff-MD2-to-quot-MD1-quot

to run an M61 with a 18500 and an Oveready ZeroRez Shorty switch, I may find it too small for my big hands or it may be marvellous.
Can't fault Malkoffs, for me modularity means a lot, which I'm afraid SF no longer offer.
P

 

[ForrestChump]

Thread from the dead. :sick2:

Malkoff is still king.