Tesla's gigafactory dropping 18650's and going with 20700 - per Elon Musk

[billcushman]

This is an interesting discussion about the Tesla Battery.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbVpPSa6glA

 

[TinderBox (UK)]

Great video, over 7000 18650 cells in the car power pack, But will we CPF ever see the improvements in battery capacity that Tesla make or will it be a guarded secret, now they are making their own 20700 cells in the US.

John.

This is an interesting discussion about the Tesla Battery.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbVpPSa6glA

 

[SubLGT]

...I don't think that other battery makers are going to copy this size if they don't get a contract making batteries for them as larger cells will only make laptop and drill battery packs larger as they are built around certain voltages and eliminating batteries to make a taller wider but not necessarily longer pack isn't going to be worth it. Looking at all my 18650 based devices... flashlights and power banks and such I don't see a larger diameter more comfortable a fit.

I can see the 20700 size working well in battery packs for yard equipment, such as mowers, string trimmers, hedge trimmers, etc.

 

[stephenk]

Given the rate at which flashaholics buy new lights and cells, then even if the 20700s reach the flashlight market and 20700 flashlights start to be produced, it is probably not a major issue?

 

[CuriousOne]

20700 are available from chinese manufacturers for quite a long time.

 

[CuriousOne]

One example:

http://www.ydlxny.com/en/product_d1.asp?idd=57&ids=4&SortID=18&id=18&idid=4&ord=6

 

[stephenk]

So we'll be seeing a 13,333mAh Ultrafire 20700 then?

 

[sidecross]

Thank you for those who provided excellent links on battery technology. :thumbsup:

 

[Gauss163]

The ~10% increase to the 18650 size is not unique to Tesla, e.g. last year Samsung SDI announced a 4750mAh 21700 cell (vs. Telsa 20700) targeting the e-bike market, see below

 

[etc]

I wonder if 20700 becomes the new standard if this really takes off.

 

[Gauss163]

Here is the tentative datasheet for Panasonic's 4250mAh NCR20700B. Below are the first 2 pages.

 

[SemiMan]

Why are they going for cylindrical cells, would hexagonal cells pack more in the same space, or do they need a slight gap for cooling?

John.

It's rolled layers of film. They are naturally cylinders.

 

[SemiMan]

Sounds a bit like a desperate plan by someone to "improve" the bottom line. If their manufacturing equipment that makes batteries is limited to this new size of battery without major work on it then I guess I can see why they would do this but if they have to make all new equipment to accommodate the larger cell size then why not go to 22800 or even larger? The only savings I can see is they can use less cells to get the same amount of power but the less cells may not take up any less size perhaps even more size when they are grouped together as the holes between cells I believe will be larger and the cells are taller too. I don't think that other battery makers are going to copy this size if they don't get a contract making batteries for them as larger cells will only make laptop and drill battery packs larger as they are built around certain voltages and eliminating batteries to make a taller wider but not necessarily longer pack isn't going to be worth it. Looking at all my 18650 based devices... flashlights and power banks and such I don't see a larger diameter more comfortable a fit.

Most of the dollars in laptop batteries is not 18650 any more.

 

[etc]

If they are not 18650 anymore, what are they?

 

[TinderBox (UK)]

Most likely li-polymer as they can be made to fit virtually any shape, though they are normally in ultrabooks with built-in battery`s i would think 18650 are still used in the removable battery notebooks.

John.

If they are not 18650 anymore, what are they?

 

[SemiMan]

The dollars are not in removable batteries any more.

To be successful these days, laptops have to be at least somewhat thin.

Take a perusal of Lenovo or Dell's website. You are hard pressed to find removable batteries any more or anything powered with 18650. They are just too thick.

Pretty much all lithium polymer. It's the same chemistry, just different physical construction.

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Like somebody said above, power tools are the new laptops for cylindrical cells, IMO.

It used to be draws drills, saws and lights that used battery packs, but now we have blowers, weed whackers, hedgers and even lawn mowers.

None of the tree-hugger hippies want gas any longer and 100 yard extension cords are too much work for the fatties, to roll up.

Chris

 

[derek10]

I read that cylindrical cells last longer than prisms and pouch cells.

 

[derek10]

Like somebody said above, power tools are the new laptops for cylindrical cells, IMO.

It used to be draws drills, saws and lights that used battery packs, but now we have blowers, weed whackers, hedgers and even lawn mowers.

None of the tree-hugger hippies want gas any longer and 100 yard extension cords are too much work for the fatties, to roll up.

Chris

Also many powerbanks. Mine all have Samsung 18650 cells

 

[sidecross]

The dollars are not in removable batteries any more.

To be successful these days, laptops have to be at least somewhat thin.

Take a perusal of Lenovo or Dell's website. You are hard pressed to find removable batteries any more or anything powered with 18650. They are just too thick.

Pretty much all lithium polymer. It's the same chemistry, just different physical construction.

I replaced my 5 year old laptop with a new Dell XPS13 9350 and it is 2.5 lbs and 10mm thick with battery life of eight hours. An 18650 battery would not fit.