Exactly. Strictly UI spoken, for me, nothing beats 4sevens'.
The Best UI ever?...Maybe not...
- Thread starter neutralwhite
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With some programming skills you can make your own UI. After getting into micro-controllers I was pointed to the NANJG linear drivers (47, 101, 105) which had a small, but reprogrammable micro-controller, and I started writing my own firmwares for those. I have written a couple meanwhile, my most advanced one (lucidrv) for clicky lights is programmable (i.e. configurable by the user by some clicks, no PC needed), i.e. the modes, the number of modes and the type of memory (no memory, classic, or short-cycle/hybrid) can be changed, it also has 2 mode groups to quickly switch between 2 setups, a battery level indicator, and mode-lock, i.e. when activated, the light doesn't change modes any more, good for tactical or signaling purposes. And then 3 more firmwares for lights with momentary pushbuttons (electronic switches)... It actually became my hobby 
cal..45
Enlightened
Nitecores piston drive for me (D11.2/Ex11.2). No other flaslight I have comes even close.
cheers
cheers
Gatsby
Enlightened
I admit to having a bias towards the HDS UI. Maybe it's just due to familiarity since I owned an Arc4+ back in the day and have had some version of a light with that UI ever since. The flexibility to configure it just about however you'd like has yet to be matched as far as I know. And while it isn't exactly intuitive to program it once you've got it the way you want it I find it works great. I like being able to jump from one level directly to any of the other three levels (OK from high or low to mid isn't exactly a one click jump but close). What sets this UI apart is that it can suit so many different preferences. I like a low low and last mode memory - but have also configured it to start always in low. I really don't like lights that always start in high but some do and that can be configured as well...
I like the Sunwayman control ring well enough - but admit that te infinite brightness might be slightly overrated - 3/4 well chosen levels works pretty well I think - and rarely do I need to truly micro tune the level of light - if I need more I typically need a leap more - or less... Neat concept and I'm carrying a V10r ti+ most of the time right now as my EDC - but would sub out a Haiku if I could afford one...
Otherwise - the Zebralight is pretty good for clickies, and the basic Surefire G2X Pro/E1l/E2L I like just fine. I am also fine with my Milky lights and the various firmware options he programs.
Other than a clickie - I like my Arc6 piston drive a good bit - as well as the Surefire L1. The only limitation there is that with more "bandwidth" due to better emitters two levels isn't always enough - the Arc6 solves this but otherwise I sense the PD is more or less dead.
I have a few pure twisties that aren't my favorite - of twisties I prefer the twist for light twist more for more light (the PD/Arc6/L1 and Muyschondt approach). I don't care at all for the twist on/off approach really all other things being equal.
However, while I know pretty well what I like these days I completely appreciate that we all have our preferences. Again - why the HDS UI still stands above all in my book.
I like the Sunwayman control ring well enough - but admit that te infinite brightness might be slightly overrated - 3/4 well chosen levels works pretty well I think - and rarely do I need to truly micro tune the level of light - if I need more I typically need a leap more - or less... Neat concept and I'm carrying a V10r ti+ most of the time right now as my EDC - but would sub out a Haiku if I could afford one...
Otherwise - the Zebralight is pretty good for clickies, and the basic Surefire G2X Pro/E1l/E2L I like just fine. I am also fine with my Milky lights and the various firmware options he programs.
Other than a clickie - I like my Arc6 piston drive a good bit - as well as the Surefire L1. The only limitation there is that with more "bandwidth" due to better emitters two levels isn't always enough - the Arc6 solves this but otherwise I sense the PD is more or less dead.
I have a few pure twisties that aren't my favorite - of twisties I prefer the twist for light twist more for more light (the PD/Arc6/L1 and Muyschondt approach). I don't care at all for the twist on/off approach really all other things being equal.
However, while I know pretty well what I like these days I completely appreciate that we all have our preferences. Again - why the HDS UI still stands above all in my book.
Hooked on Fenix
Flashlight Enthusiast
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2007
- Messages
- 3,157
Best for me would be a magnetic ring control and one forward clicky switch. Start at the level you want every time from turn on. Unfortunetely, these lights are very expensive and I don't have any.
Second place would be a reverse clicky tail switch that goes from low to high with a twisty head that lets you access low or turbo at the first click of the tailcap switch. This would be the old Fenix flashlights before the side switch was added as well as the 4sevens lights. I'd have to say the Fenix user interface was slightly better because of the lockout option for the switch. However, with the runtime on low of my 4sevens light, it still won't kill the batteries for a month if only pushed on once.
Third place would be a twisty tailcap switch with one level plus momentary on and lockout. This would be the Surefire 6P, Gerber Infinity Ultra, and older Inova lights. Yes, I know that many of us prefer multilevel lights with push buttons, but it's hard to beat the reliability of a Gerber Infinity Ultra or Surefire 6P switch. There really is nothing to break.
The worst user interfaces would be the M, L, H, Strobe, S.O.S. twisty switches and the headlights and flashlights that you have to cycle through all settings to turn the light off. These usually go low, medium, high and when the batteries are running low and you try to turn it off, once it turns to high, there isn't enough power to turn it to off so it drains the batteries instead of letting you conserve the power that's left.
Second place would be a reverse clicky tail switch that goes from low to high with a twisty head that lets you access low or turbo at the first click of the tailcap switch. This would be the old Fenix flashlights before the side switch was added as well as the 4sevens lights. I'd have to say the Fenix user interface was slightly better because of the lockout option for the switch. However, with the runtime on low of my 4sevens light, it still won't kill the batteries for a month if only pushed on once.
Third place would be a twisty tailcap switch with one level plus momentary on and lockout. This would be the Surefire 6P, Gerber Infinity Ultra, and older Inova lights. Yes, I know that many of us prefer multilevel lights with push buttons, but it's hard to beat the reliability of a Gerber Infinity Ultra or Surefire 6P switch. There really is nothing to break.
The worst user interfaces would be the M, L, H, Strobe, S.O.S. twisty switches and the headlights and flashlights that you have to cycle through all settings to turn the light off. These usually go low, medium, high and when the batteries are running low and you try to turn it off, once it turns to high, there isn't enough power to turn it to off so it drains the batteries instead of letting you conserve the power that's left.
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Lichtinsdunkel
Newly Enlightened
Re: AW: The Best UI ever?...Maybe not...
Me, too. The whole control with the thumb, and you can reach every mode fast.
Z-Tab
Enlightened
Re: AW: The Best UI ever?...Maybe not...
The worst ever has to be the 4sevens RGB, which was nearly unusable as you'd frequently have to cycle through a dozen modes to get to what you wanted. No blame on them for that one, I figure that's just the cost of trying to get the most use out of a very cool emitter while keeping the light relatively cheap. If someone made an RGB MC-E light with a functional UI, I'd get one in a heartbeat.
The best is the Spy 007. Unfortunately, the cost is way higher than most people would ever consider. Runner up in my book is Surefire's two-stage tactical tailcap, which gives you easy, immediate access to low or high without much chance of user error.
l/m/h with mode memory is a pretty good basic UI. About as inoffensive as you can get, while still being reasonably intuitive.
The worst ever has to be the 4sevens RGB, which was nearly unusable as you'd frequently have to cycle through a dozen modes to get to what you wanted. No blame on them for that one, I figure that's just the cost of trying to get the most use out of a very cool emitter while keeping the light relatively cheap. If someone made an RGB MC-E light with a functional UI, I'd get one in a heartbeat.
The best is the Spy 007. Unfortunately, the cost is way higher than most people would ever consider. Runner up in my book is Surefire's two-stage tactical tailcap, which gives you easy, immediate access to low or high without much chance of user error.
l/m/h with mode memory is a pretty good basic UI. About as inoffensive as you can get, while still being reasonably intuitive.
Brangdon
Newly Enlightened
Re: AW: The Best UI ever?...Maybe not...
I recent bought a Zebralight and thought the UI was way too error-prone. Here's how it works. From off, you push the button and it comes on at the dimmest level - so dim you may have to be looking at the LED to check it is on. If you then release, it switches to the brightest level. You are now blind. If instead of releasing immediately, you pause a moment, it stays on dim. If you pause slightly longer, it switches to the medium level. So there's no easy and safe way to get to dim: you have to get the timing exactly right, not too short, and not too long, with only moments separating them and no feedback as to whether you are too early or close to too late.
I do think the UI I describe above is objectively flawed. However, I figure the main subjective criteria is whether you want the brightest level to be the most quickly/easily accessed. Zebralights are like that: one click and it's super-bright. I hate this because I believe the dimmest levels should be the most accessible. Going bright first is dangerous: it will destroy my night vision, wake up whoever is sleeping next to me, attract the attention of the mugger, whatever.
Overclocker
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: AW: The Best UI ever?...Maybe not...
the zebralight UI is just brilliant. however just like with any other powerful UI (not necessarily flashlight) it takes a bit of practice. now if practice still doesn't grant you mastery of the UI then perhaps you should go with a less powerful UI
the zebralight UI is just brilliant. however just like with any other powerful UI (not necessarily flashlight) it takes a bit of practice. now if practice still doesn't grant you mastery of the UI then perhaps you should go with a less powerful UI
Brangdon
Newly Enlightened
Using a flashlight should not be like learning a musical instrument. Sure, you have to know how it works; I have no problem with that. The problem with Zebralight is not that it's complicated, it's that it's error-prone. The timing difference between selecting the dimmest level and the brightest is too short for the difference in brightness.
Nor is the Zebralight UI especially powerful. For example, the coin-cell Photo Freedom offers more convenient access to more modes; it's quite complex but not as error-prone. It even does the same thing of click = max, hold = min + ramp up, but it works because the ramp-up is gradual. The Zebralight jumps from 0.1 lumens to 50.
(Blaming the user, telling me I don't deserve the light; that's not very nice. I do like my H502 and it's part of my every-day carry for night walks home, but the UI does have this issue. I've tried to explain objectively why it is a problem.)
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Re: AW: The Best UI ever?...Maybe not...
There is no "best" UI any more than there is one "Best" transmission or "Best" type of house, etc.
Its completely subjective.
IE: One person DEMANDS that a light come on in MAX, and any UI that doesn't is unusable to them, and another DEMANDS that the UI come on in moonlight, or that UI is worthless, and another DEMANDS that it come on at whatever it was last, or else the UI is worthless, and another DEMANDS a tail switch, and another says a tail switch is a deal breaker and it MUST have a side switch, and another DEMANDS that it have both types but NOT a rotary dial, and another DEMANDS a rotary dial, add in forward and reverse clicky, twisty heads or not, plus half press side switches and hold down to scroll vs press repeatedly, the number of settings, programmable vs default only, and then add together all the OTHER sub-sets and combinations of the above, which, represent only SOME OF the demands made for a given UI....and you can see that in a rather short time, you can create many flavors of UI, and NONE OF THEM will be "best" for everyone.
In fact, if you made every single variation possible, even of JUST the ones listed above...you would find that NONE would please everyone, and, only a narrow slice of each flavor would please SOME of the people.
So worrying about what's "best" is like arguing which flavor of ice cream tastes better....all you REALLY know is what YOU like, and, after that, its best to assume that others like whatever it is that they like, regardless of you trying to convince them otherwise....and no one will likely convince YOU that you actually like a different flavor better either.
If you really LIKE pistachio icecream, and someone claims its the worst flavor EVAH....it probably is, to them. That DOESN'T mean they are wrong or that you are wrong, you still love it, and, they still hate it, and your friends will like what they like, regardless of what you two claim is better or worse.
You can't defend or attack a person's favorite flavor and expect to sway them to your flavor.
Tolerance of those who's taste buds are faulty is required.
There is no "best" UI any more than there is one "Best" transmission or "Best" type of house, etc.
Its completely subjective.
IE: One person DEMANDS that a light come on in MAX, and any UI that doesn't is unusable to them, and another DEMANDS that the UI come on in moonlight, or that UI is worthless, and another DEMANDS that it come on at whatever it was last, or else the UI is worthless, and another DEMANDS a tail switch, and another says a tail switch is a deal breaker and it MUST have a side switch, and another DEMANDS that it have both types but NOT a rotary dial, and another DEMANDS a rotary dial, add in forward and reverse clicky, twisty heads or not, plus half press side switches and hold down to scroll vs press repeatedly, the number of settings, programmable vs default only, and then add together all the OTHER sub-sets and combinations of the above, which, represent only SOME OF the demands made for a given UI....and you can see that in a rather short time, you can create many flavors of UI, and NONE OF THEM will be "best" for everyone.
In fact, if you made every single variation possible, even of JUST the ones listed above...you would find that NONE would please everyone, and, only a narrow slice of each flavor would please SOME of the people.
So worrying about what's "best" is like arguing which flavor of ice cream tastes better....all you REALLY know is what YOU like, and, after that, its best to assume that others like whatever it is that they like, regardless of you trying to convince them otherwise....and no one will likely convince YOU that you actually like a different flavor better either.
If you really LIKE pistachio icecream, and someone claims its the worst flavor EVAH....it probably is, to them. That DOESN'T mean they are wrong or that you are wrong, you still love it, and, they still hate it, and your friends will like what they like, regardless of what you two claim is better or worse.
You can't defend or attack a person's favorite flavor and expect to sway them to your flavor.
Tolerance of those who's taste buds are faulty is required.
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I'm really enjoying *certain* loose/tight bezel interfaces. You set your desired lower mode, and then any sideways pressure to the head gives you momentary maximum (like a car's high beam flashers); release pressure and your back to the previously set low. Works single handed, with under- or over- hand grips. Great for spotting the dog off leash, finding the next trail marker hiking, checking on that bump in the woods, signaling cars that pedestrians are ahead and/or to dip their high beams for you, etc.
jimboutilier
Enlightened
Re: AW: The Best UI ever?...Maybe not...
I agree with TEEJ and will take his statements of different UI's for different people one step further and say each person may have different preferences for a number of different purposes. That's to say the UI they might prefer for an EDC light may be different for a tactical light or a light for a different purpose.
My main interest area is in tiny or small EDC lights and I have a lot of them with a wide variety of UI's. I have found over time that I prefer a light that can be turned on at max, turned on at min, and gives a quick and easy way to sequence through several brightness levels, preferably all with a single control.
There are a number of UIs I like. A simple magnetic ring can be good as you can turn on min and gradually move through to max, or flick quickly to max and move lower. I like the Foursevens/EagletacD/OldFenix with its tactical head tight and EDC head loose system. I also really like the Zebralight UI but find it the hardest to explain to others and is the most error prone under stress/wet/cold.
While these multipurpose UI's can serve a variety of needs I still prefer one over another or a more specialized UI for particular purposes. I guess my point is variety is great not only to satisfy different people but also different purposes so there is no one great or terrible UI for everyone.
I agree with TEEJ and will take his statements of different UI's for different people one step further and say each person may have different preferences for a number of different purposes. That's to say the UI they might prefer for an EDC light may be different for a tactical light or a light for a different purpose.
My main interest area is in tiny or small EDC lights and I have a lot of them with a wide variety of UI's. I have found over time that I prefer a light that can be turned on at max, turned on at min, and gives a quick and easy way to sequence through several brightness levels, preferably all with a single control.
There are a number of UIs I like. A simple magnetic ring can be good as you can turn on min and gradually move through to max, or flick quickly to max and move lower. I like the Foursevens/EagletacD/OldFenix with its tactical head tight and EDC head loose system. I also really like the Zebralight UI but find it the hardest to explain to others and is the most error prone under stress/wet/cold.
While these multipurpose UI's can serve a variety of needs I still prefer one over another or a more specialized UI for particular purposes. I guess my point is variety is great not only to satisfy different people but also different purposes so there is no one great or terrible UI for everyone.
extremescramble
Newly Enlightened
I have Dr Jones Lucidrv installed in my Tri EDC - total revelation !!
It gives me all the flexibility of my HDS Systems light which for me is it's stand out feature.
User programmable means I always have the perfect modes
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It gives me all the flexibility of my HDS Systems light which for me is it's stand out feature.
User programmable means I always have the perfect modes
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Programmable modes are great, but would be better with complete lockdown ability. I have Dr. Jones' Lucidrv in a P60 dropin, and after spending quite a while programming the number of modes, levels, etc., I found it got messed up by others. OK, I put it on high and toggled the "single mode" so it was very basic. It took 5 mins in the hands of my 10 year old to become unlocked, and all the modes changed simply because he was fidgity! Too much work to fix it again...
neutralwhite
Flashlight Enthusiast
could a HDS end up like this too?.
is there a better modes disable ?.
someone did mention that is the problem with programmable lights.
HDS one of them?.
thanks.
is there a better modes disable ?.
someone did mention that is the problem with programmable lights.
HDS one of them?.
thanks.
jimboutilier
Enlightened
To program an HDS light you have to go through a reset sequence then an enabling sequence immediately thereafter and only then can you change the programming. Any mistakes in both sequences and you can't reprogram it. It would be incredibly unlikely someone would stumble through both of these sequences together and enable programming. Also each programming sequence must be correct or the reprogramming fails. So as long as you disable customization once you are done programming you are pretty safe.
The first time you go to reprogram an HDS light even reading the manual several times and having it in front of you you'll realize how "safe" it is from accidental changes.
The lucidrv is 5 clicks to lock/unlock and 10 to reprogram. Pretty easy to do accidentally.
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
