The TigerLight Upgrade Thread

[js]

OK, I now have a Streamlight SL-35X lamp module comming my way. At $12, this is even cheaper than the stock TL LA. I spent a lot of frustrating time trying to find out where/if/when/how this combo has worked for someone, but remarkably I came up short. I found the thread minjin was talking about, and info about the use of the SL-20X, but nada on the SL-35X. I even found a post by Ginseng asking if anyone had tried this combo, and there were no replies to his post. The thread in its entirety consisted of 1 post: Ginseng's. Minjin, have YOU tried this combo? How is it?

At this point, for a couple of reasons, I have some worries about the type and quality of the cells in the TL battery pack. I do not know if these worries are groundless or not but I will definitely be building at least one new 6 cell NiMH battery pack for my TL, if not two. If the TL BP gets dragged down in voltage when trying to power the WA 01111 or the SL-35X, due to a design that leans more towards capacity than current delivery, it really should be replaced as part of the upgrade. If the Sanyo HR4/5FAUP 1950's won't fit, then the KAN 4/5A 1800's will, and either of these is, as Ginseng would say, overkill for a current requirement of 5 amps or less, so they will maintain their voltage under load. Also, both of these have a similar mAH capacity to the stock pack. Certainly the older NiMH batteries were not up to 4C discharges. We will see.

I am also ordering the KAN 2/3A 1050's for the 9 cell pack, along with the 15V wallwarts, for the TL+ upgrade (w/ WA1185). Time seems to be moving so slowly; I am anxious to try these things out.

 

[Minjin]

I see no reason why the SL35X lamp won't work. It should be a better, brighter beam but its unknown as to how bad it'll affect the runtime. I like the SL20X beam but its just not quite as bright as the ugly stock TL lamp. I've been meaning to try the 35 and just haven't gotten around to it. Just like I have a 1274 bulb and a spare TL lamp (the old bilobed one) to mess with and just haven't gotten around to potting it. Too many other projects. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Let us know how it turns out.

Mark

 

[js]

I did a more accurate measurement of the i.d. of the TL, as well as a calculation of the size of a HR4/5FAUP 1950 pack (18.1 mm cell dia. vs. 17.0) and the calculations show that a 4/5FAUP pack would be .7 mm too big, so I didn't order those cells. Only the KAN 1800's and 1050's. Too bad. That extra bit of runtime would have been nice.

 

[Psychomodo]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[K5Guy]

JS,

Have you tried your sl35 lamp yet. I got mine in today and I must say its AWESOME. The beam is perfect, not that the TL beam bothered me, and very bright. Comparing it to my MAG-WA it is not quite as bright but the nice beam puts it over the top for me. I will try to get some beamshots up asap.

 

[js]

K5Guy and all others,

Yes, I did get my SL-35X lamp module, and I was very excited! I hooked it up and turned it on, and /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif it just wasn't much brighter. I must have switched back and forth a dozen times trying to figure out the difference and how much brighter it was, if it was brighter. I concluded that it was somewhat brighter, but that the throwing power was about the same. Mainly, the beam just had more spill light, to my eyes. I would love it if you posted some beam shots, K5Guy. Keep in mind that I'm pretty sure I got lucky with my TL LA. It seems to be one of the good ones, although I don't yet have a lux meter to check it out.

On to some details: first, the 35X LA is larger than the TL LA. The 35X is 2.11 inches in diameter vs. the 2.00 inches of the TL reflector. Also, the 35X is about .1 inches deeper than the TL LA, and thus the pins are even closer to the battery pack than ever. In my set up the 35X pins were not bent very much, but I did have to be careful of how much wire I pulled up. Things worked best when I kept as much as I could pushed down along the space between the battery pack and the body of the light. Even so, the extra diameter prevented the reflector from seating down as deeply in the head and prevented the bezel from screwing down all the way, leaving about the thickness of the o-ring between body and bezel. I doubt that the light in this configuration is water resistant/splash proof.

I left my TL on the charger all last night, and took it into work with me. I measured the voltage at 8.43 Volts an hour off the charger, which is right where it should be. Next I turned on the light (with the 35X installed) and WHAM! the voltage dropped immediately to 6.5 Volts and continued to fall to 6.35 over the next 10 seconds. I will get around to measuring the current draw at this voltage shortly, but 6.35 volts equates to 1.05 volts per cell, for fully charged cells. This is not good. Not good at all. 1.0 or 0.9 volts per cell is often considered the end of cycle cut-off for NiMH.

So this can mean only one thing: my TL battery pack is not up to delivering much over 2 amps. It is possible that I have a bad pack, but I very much doubt that as I get a full 66 minute runtime and I read the proper off the charger voltage (8.4). I suspect that the TL NiMH pack is optimized for a 1.7 amp current draw maximum run-time, which is great for using the standard LA, but bad news for anyone wanting to increase the output.

K5Guy, do you have a volt meter? If so I would appreciate hearing what your TL measures under the 35X load.

In consideration of the above, I think that it is clear that this project will require replacement of the stock battery pack with a high-rate NiMH cell. The best one that I know of at the moment is the KAN 1800 4/5A cell, which gets very high marks from two experts I've talked with, one of them being Ginseng. The capacity is about the same to boot, so we won't lose anything by switching to a custom pack (other than money). The 1800's cost around $3 ea. so we're only talking on the order of $20-25 for me to make up the packs, but unless my pack is strangely defective, it doesn't look as if there is a way around replacing the stock battery pack. Sorry, guys.

 

[js]

OK. I tested the current as well as the voltage under the 35X load. At 6.2 volts (and dropping!) the 35X was drawing 3.22 amps from the battery which is something like 19.5 watts, and around a 2C discharge. The standard lamp draws 1.7 amps at 7.1 volts, or just over 12 watts, but it's a pretty efficient lamp I've been told. At any rate, a 19 watt lamp-output should be noticeably brighter, and it is brighter, but not much brighter. Using the WA re-rating formulas, the re-rated candlepower should be 1.186 times as much at 6.3 volts as it was at 6.0 volts. I think I remember someone saying that the 35X put out 400 bulb-lumens, which would yield 474 lumens, which is probably something like 360 torch-lumens, or a 28 percent increase over the stock LA. Again, from what I've read, a difference of 50 percent is sort of a minimum to really notice a significant increase in brightness.

However, if I had a battery pack that would maintain 1.15 volts under load, which is a very conservative number, the re-rating formula yields a 63 percent increase over the 6.0 volt figures, a 75 percent increase over the stock LA: 650 bulb-lumens and 490 torch lumens. The 1800's shouldn't have any problem maintaining 7.2+ volts at a current draw of 3.5 amps, or even 4 or 5 amps.

Also, the 35X wouldn't be too hard to turn down on a lathe, I don't think. I may try that later today. It depends on how good a grib the chuck can get on the small cylindrical section at the bottom of the reflector (where the lamp is). And if I can trim it to 2.00 inches, it should make a much better fit in the TL. So this is certainly an option, even as is with a standard battery pack, but (1) it's probably beating up on the batteries, and (2) it's not much brighter. Given the need for turning the 35X down and the need for a custom battery pack, I think it makes more sense to pursue the WA/Carley option, both the 6 cell and the 9 cell TL+. Comments or opinions or questions?

Also, cheesehead, my apologies. It looks as if this IS pushing the stock battery pack, just as you worried it would. Good call.

 

[Ginseng]

Excellent report, Jim. Good reading.

Wilkey

 

[cheesehead]

Nice updates,

Stock battery packs always seem to be the weak link. I have a pack of NiCDs that heat up at .5 C (which is pathetic) and cheap NiMHs that do great at 1 C, so my idea that NiCDs are always better is over (in part, thanks to you). Enjoyed this thread very much.

cheese

 

[Ginseng]

Jim,

It has been my experience that the stock packs of ANY major brand rechargeable are well-matched to the OEM LA but become woefully inadequate for anything even marginally more demanding. I'm sure this is a question of pure economics. Cells which are neither high-capacity nor high-drain are cheap but perform well in a very narrow operating envelope.

As for the current draw, at 3.22A, the KAN1800 should deliver at least 1.21V/cell at 50% capacity. That means 7.26V solid. However you do the math, that's going to be one bright torch /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I am sure that if you decide to sell kits consisting of turned-down SL-35X LAs and KAN1800 packs, you would get a tremendous response. This would be the TL analog to the SuperMagWA60 in all respects except runtime.

Note on the pins, since you're playing. If they are too long, see if there might be enough length to take a mm or two off the ends and still maintain engagement in the receivers.

Wilkey

 

[Ginseng]

BTW,
The Streamlight Rechargeables Manual lists the SL-35X LA as a 20W unit. This comes right in the range of your 3.22A current measurement. With the stock D-cells, I don't doubt they'd deliver better voltage to the LA.
Wilkey

 

[js]

Ginseng,

Thanks for the suggestion on the pins. I think that the 35X would work fine, as there is only a .1 inch difference in length. Actually slightly less. 1.448 vs. 1.411 inches when measured to the outside of where the pins stick through. But then the 35X has a potting bulge, whereas the TL LA does not. The pins are both about as long, and on neither will the connectors completely cover the pins, so cutting them down slightly will help. The biggest help would be to turn down the diameter of the outer rim to 2.00 inches. Then the bezel should turn home and seal against the o-ring, and I think the pins will only get bent very slightly. Nothing to worry about, especially if you leave them that way when you take the LA out for some reason and then put it back.

Incidentally, as part of the charger modification for the 9 cell TL+, I want to find a kinder, gentler spring to put in the harness! That bad boy is fierce. Unnecessarily so, in my opinion, but I'd be sure to test for good contact in a variety of situations. This modification would go along with the switch to select for 6 or 9 cell pack, and the necessary extra resistor and wiring and soldering. Plus the 15V wallwart. I haven't looked into replacement spring options yet, but even a slightly less powerful spring would help. It can be scarry snapping the light into the harness sometimes. I think I remember K5Guy telling me that it took off his index finger and he had to have it reattached. Very painful. Tragic, really. IIRC, of course. K5Guy, is that right? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[js]

I have received the batteries and I am currently gearing up to start building the KAN 1800 4/5A hi-current TL battery packs. Thanks to Ginseng and the "how to" tutorial on the www.dynamoelectrics.com site, I know what I need to learn and do in order to make some really top quality packs. Unfortunately, it is not an easy thing to do, and is engaging most of my attention and effort at the moment. I think that I finally have the right soldering iron/tip setup and hope to be satisfied with the quality of the end to end solder joint sometime tonight or tomorrow. All the joints that I have made have stood up to a stiff slap into the palm of my hand, but when I broke some of them apart, I felt the actual contact area of the bond was not as good as I wanted it. I will continue practicing on the stock 4/5A cells until I have it down to a science.

Anyone who has been part of Ginseng's custom battery pack offers should send him a special thank-you and some extra money. Trust me when I tell you that this is NOT an easy thing to do well, and it is obvious to me why all stock battery packs are done with spot welded tabs. It is tricky to perform this end to end soldering, but nothing so complex that you couldn't do it yourself with the right equipment and determination. Just takes practice, a good hot soldering iron with the right tip, and a jig to keep the two cells in line. And of course, there is the added pressure of not over-heating the battery. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

When I have my KAN 1800 pack assembled and charged, I will report back on how the SL-35X performs at 7.2 volts instead of the 6.2-6.3 that it was getting from the stock pack.

 

[Psychomodo]

Thanks for the update Jim /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif.

Today I received my Tigerlight FBOP and I am very impressed. I can't wait to see it perform even better /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Colin

 

[Illuminated]

I'm not sure if I got a "good" SL3X lamp assembly, but when I swapped it with the TL LA in my 4D Mag mod (6 x 1/2D Powerstreams, 7.2V), it put out more overall light than the TL LA, but was not quite as "white", and didn't seem to throw much farther...

John

 

[js]

John,

The large difference that you noticed (and that I did not) is due to the 1/2D PowerStream batteries that you were using. As I mentioned above the stock TL battery pack is not up to the current demand of a SL-35X run at 7.2 volts. The TL BP can only keep 6.3 volts into this load, at best. Or actually, I should say that that is what I observed using my own TL. Perhaps my pack is not as good as it should be, but I doubt it, because it measures the correct voltage off the charger and gets the full 1.1 hour runtime.

And, of course, I'm sure that there ARE differences from one 35X LA to another, but that is not really in play in this case.

As for my efforts at battery pack making, I am now completely satisfied with the quality of my end to end solder joints. I did six perfect ones last night. It feels good, let me tell you. The full + contact area soldered into the - terminal and a good strong connection. This is definitely the way to make the best battery pack you can.

Unfortunately, in the process of doing all of this, I removed the shrink wrap from the batteries and must order some smaller size shrink wrap. All I have right now is the larger stuff for the final wrapping of the whole pack. I hate waiting for vital supplies when I'm on a roll.

 

[Psychomodo]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif

 

[Illuminated]

Jim,

I was driving the 6-volt Sl35X at 7.2 volts in the 4D Mag mod from six Powerstream 1/2D's, not in the Tigerlight...

John

 

[js]

[ QUOTE ]
Illuminated said:
Jim,

I was driving the 6-volt Sl35X at 7.2 volts in the 4D Mag mod from six Powerstream 1/2D's, not in the Tigerlight...

John

[/ QUOTE ]

John, I know that! That's what I was saying. Weren't you saying that you saw a big difference (with this 4D mag mod setup) between the stock TL LA (7.2 V) and the over-driven 35X (6.0 V nominal driven to 7.2 V)? Thus, one would expect the same difference when running the 35X in the TL, BUT the stock TL battery pack only drives the 35X at 6.2 V. Thus, one does not see that much of a difference in that scenario.

Am I misunderstanding you or are we saying the same thing?

 

[js]

Update: my shrink wrap is on the way, my Carley reflectors are on the way, and my WA lamps are on the way (or should be!) so I should be getting into the thick of things by the weekend or early next week. I'm very excited!

Also, I used the WA re-rating formulas to do a recalculation of the currents, runtimes, output, and lifetimes, of the various WA lamp candidates. Here are the most accurate guesses I have yet posted:

1274___2.77 A___40 min___553 lumens___40 hrs
1111___3.70 A___29 min___880 lumens___11 hrs
1164___3.63 A___30 min___571 lumens___280 hrs

1185___3.36 A___18 min___1233 lumens__12 hrs

Remeber that the 1185 will require the 9 cell 2/3A battery pack, but for 1233 lumens, isn't it worth it? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif