Ti "C" pak for PD's and LunaSols

[Dog Chaser]

Don,

Great idea. I like it.

BTW, I got my paks in the other day they look and work great.

Thanks for the offerings.

 

[fyrstormer]

I did have that idea a couple of days ago, but my ideas always seem to be impractical for one reason or another, so I kept it to myself. Oh well.

The Lunasol is two lights in one, unlike the other PD lights, so having a more complex UI that allows selecting an emitter as well as a brightness would be a plus. If I were going to make one myself, I would have at least 2 brightness modes on the Nichias, and 2 or 3 brightness modes on the center emitter. (Depending on what's available now, a tiny R2 might be a better choice than a Golden Dragon, I dunno.)

Another idea I had was to make the same sort of light, but use a PD-S head with a Nichia 083b epoxied to the center of the glass. The Nichia would provide the high-quality, low-brightness flood illumination, and some other higher-powered emitter would sit back behind it to provide high-quantity throw illumination. The Nichia would block some of the direct emission (i.e. the spill) from the focused emitter, but that would be made up for by the Nichia's own spill. The reflected emission (i.e. the hotspot) would remain unobstructed and would provide a nice clean hotspot.

In practice, the way the driver would behave in my little hypothetical scenario is so:

Kilroy only: Clicking cycles between low and high flood from the Nichia.
Kilroy + ring: Nichia defaults to high flood, clicking cycles between low and high spot from whatever the focused emitter is.

There is the issue of getting power to the Nichia if it's epoxied to the glass, but that's not too hard; run the thinnest possible wiring to it, one wire on each side, with either transparent insulation or no insulation at all. (Nothing for the wires to touch anyway.) Cut two small notches in either side of the lip of the reflector, underneath where the O-ring sits, and run the wires to the Nichia through the notches behind the O-ring. Leave enough slack in the wires that the glass can be lifted out and pulled off to the side when necessary. Other than that, assembly would be the same as any regular PD-S/XR19 head.

 

[RocketTomato]

I think a two-stage clicky would work extremely well with an LS20 or any PD light for that matter. You then end up with 4 easily selectable levels. The downside is the decreased efficiency of using a resistor in the tailcap.

The 3-stage driver for the center emitter is definitely a neat idea and I believe you have mentioned it in another thread elsewhere Don.

If you had infinite resources and time, and could design a new driver for the lights, I think a good choice would be to make a driver that toggles between high and low current modes when you quickly cycle off. In the case of a regular Ti PD-S, you keep the normal two stage operation of the light, but then a quick on off cycle, would toggle between low and high current modes, giving you a 4-level light. I think this would be sufficiently simple that it would work well with the piston pak. It would probably be best to only enable the high-low current toggle on the Kilroy portion of the circuit. Of course in practice, it may be a complete disaster.

 

[UnderTheWeepingMoon]

I recently sold my LS27 but would've probably kept it had I known this little surprise wave was coming. I think the larger size of the C Pak would make the LS20 too large for my EDC but it would really help the balance of the LS27.

Don, the LunaSol eclipse sounds like an interesting concept but I would love to see it done with an LS27 head. I loved the beautifully smooth, warm flood of the LS27 but thought it felt awkward with the large head and small PD Pak. Its high mode could also have been a bit brighter, which would be solved using the three-stage driver. I would pick up one of those lights in a heartbeat.

 

[fyrstormer]

Email sent for purchase of 1 C-Pak.

 

[mendhammarsh]

Picked up my Ti C Pak today. Great job Don. Glad to have this extra option for my PD and Lunasols.

 

[fyrstormer]

Equal parts comfort and aesthetics. I don't think clearance is an issue, even with large fingers, given the distance needed to engage the McClicky switch. Having owned both designs (and I would hazard a guess that this new McLuxIII C-Pak has an identical tail/switch to the Ti E-series clicky bodies) I think the chamfered tail naturally guides one's thumb to better engage the switch along its axis of motion. Off-axis contact with the switch, and the perceived lateral play that caused, is why I added an aftermarket tailguard to my SF U2. I think the same applies here.

Now that I have my Haiku (which has the chamfer) and my Mule (which doesn't), I can see what you mean. I think the effect is pretty much entirely psychological -- neither is really a tactical light, so I'm not sure the effect of "off-axis contact" really has any meaningful impact -- but the chamfered tailcap definitely seems nicer, and it definitely looks more solid. At any rate, it's definitely worth the extra 5c that the raw materials probably cost.

 

[brucec]

Something that I always thought would be cool would be a reprogramming of the PD-S circuit to make it a 3 level light. My understanding is that in the PD-S (unlike the LS) the main contact ring is nothing more than a signal switch and the kilroy carries the current. The main contact ring just tells the circuit to go to the "other" mode, which happens to be high. I wonder if it is possible to reprogram it so that it signals the circuit to switch between 3 modes, instead of to just a single high mode.

That way, I could twist the light on the kilroy setting and then hard press switch between 3 modes. It would also allow me to hold the light on any of the high-med-low modes by just light pressing, instead of the constant hard press currently needed to keep the light on high. I am able to keep the light kilroy pressure on for a long time, but I can only hold the fully depressed state for a minute or two at a time.

Another benefit for this approach is that the light could have both momentary and the capability to switch the light without going through an off-cycle. I really like the way reverse clickies can quickly switch without clicking through an off cycle. On the other hand, momentary is really useful for forward clickies. I think this modification to the PD-S would be able to acheive both.

 

[Dog Chaser]

My understanding is that in the PD-S (unlike the LS) the main contact ring is nothing more than a signal switch and the kilroy carries the current. The main contact ring just tells the circuit to go to the "other" mode, which happens to be high.

I don't think this is correct. My understanding is that the main contact ring completes a circuit that bypasses a resister that exists in the circuit that the kilroy uses. I may well be wrong, but that's the way I always thought it worked.

 

[fyrstormer]

On the PD-S and the XR19, both the kilroy and the ring feed power into the same constant-current driver. When only the kilroy is contacting the battery tube, a PWM processor flickers the emitter very fast to reduce the brightness; when both the kilroy and the ring are contacting, the PWM is disabled and the LED is driven constantly On the Lunasol, there are two physically separate constant-current drivers, one for the Nichia LEDs and one for the main LED, with no PWM used at all. (At least, that's what I've been able to observe from taking my lights apart partway.) I don't know how the older aluminum PD lights work, but they probably work the same as the PD-S.

 

[mcmc]

Don, I did think of something similar when I saw the C-pak...but it's great to have you mention it as that means great chance of something like it coming to fruition! =D

Another thing I had thought of was a 'double Kilroy', a double nose as opposed to a double chin, as it were, for a bomb-proof, electronics-free tri-level. Because I think a lower low is definitely useful for the wide beam, whereas when I want a throwy beam, I want as much throw as I can get?

Another suggestion (since we're kind of on the topic of LS20 here), is to take a look at using an optic for the LS20 high-beam? Such as the Peak narrow optics, which fit in a AAA-sized head...to really maximize the flood v/s throw design ethic of the LS20!

Btw, does that mean that you have more LS20's in the works Don? Didn't seem like it from the final posts on your last LS20 wave thread, but hope it's so! =D

 

[McGizmo]

On the PD-S and the XR19, both the kilroy and the ring feed power into the same constant-current driver. When only the kilroy is contacting the battery tube, a PWM processor flickers the emitter very fast to reduce the brightness; when both the kilroy and the ring are contacting, the PWM is disabled and the LED is driven constantly.....

Not true. BruceC has it right. Kilroy completes the ground circuit and the converter is operational. It runs with a low constant current output to the LED (no PWM). When the contact ring is connected to ground, it sends a signal to the converter which then changes the constant current output level to the high setting.

I experimented with three level outputs back when I was using the McE2S 2 speed tailcaps. That experience alerted me to the problems inherent in a linear (displacement on the Z axis) activation going from two speed to three speed. For good ergonomics, not only do you need to add further displacement but you also want to ramp up the required activation force required so you can feel the levels as well as see them. In a purely twisty activation, this is a non issue because it is easy to twist and stop twisting when the desired level is met.

I want to highlight that you guys can come up with all sorts of ideas and I can come up with a few myself. However, unless we can follow through with these ideas with a viable design which includes the mechanical (I have some abilities on this level) as well as the electronic circuit (I have no abilities here beyond suggesting ideas to someone else). A few of you may have no problem designing these converter boards but they are black boxes to me and certainly not readily available at low or no cost for experimentation!?!?!

I am going to build a LunaSol 20 Eclipse as mentioned but I am going to gut an existing light I have on hand to accomplish this. I have no plans at present for any PD or LunaSol ("x2" converter series) lights.

Wayne Y designed all of the "x2" converters I have used and apart from some bumps in the road we encountered along the way, they have proven themselves to be quite reliable and viable. However, that chapter is now history and I don't consider these converters available to me aside from the last one which is the BBM, mother converter (3 mm Nichia driver) used in the LunaSol lights. I am going to couple the BBM with the 3S converter which is also available to me, in the LunaSol Eclipse proto.

Realistically I may not be doing anymore PD pack style lights and this is due to converter availability. If I really thought I needed a new converter and was willing to pay for the R&D and NRE in bringing one about, I could. A retro visit to build a small wave for those who missed out when the PD's were contemporary though would not support or fund a new converter.

The Arc 6 is a light that addressed three levels from the "x2" platform and I think rather well from an ergonomic and reasonable UI approach. It came to market in a rather odd and disruptive way, IMHO and to this day seems to be under a cloud and hampered. :shrug: None of my business though....

 

[brucec]

I have no plans at present for any PD or LunaSol ("x2" converter series) lights.

Realistically I may not be doing anymore PD pack style lights

'tis a sad day in pistonville...

 

[mcmc]

Have you ever thought of possibly collaborating with Milkyspit with one of his Acorn drivers? Great functionality in terms of programmability. I had him program a light with a simple n-level UI - to get to level n, tap (<250 ms) n number of times, then click/latch on. The next time the light is clicked on, it will come on at that level. One beauty of this UI was that if one tapped > n times, then it would simply not change brightness levels, allowing you to do a 'manual' strobe still of sorts.

 

[coloradogps]

That that would be nice!

A McMilky...

:twothumbs

 

[McGizmo]

Have you ever thought of possibly collaborating with Milkyspit with one of his Acorn drivers? Great functionality in terms of programmability. I had him program a light with a simple n-level UI - to get to level n, tap (<250 ms) n number of times, then click/latch on. The next time the light is clicked on, it will come on at that level. One beauty of this UI was that if one tapped > n times, then it would simply not change brightness levels, allowing you to do a 'manual' strobe still of sorts.

I am quite happy with the 3S converter I am using right now and I don't think the UI could get any more intuitive or easy. Tapping, pressing and programing are all cool for many and I won't dispute the features that can be made available. However, these are not my cup of tea nor do I feel any need or desire to get involved with them.

 

[mcmc]

Gotcha. Having never used the 3S I can't speak to it, but given your simplicity and bombproof design preferences, I'm sure it's swell =)

 

[fyrstormer]

Not true. BruceC has it right. Kilroy completes the ground circuit and the converter is operational. It runs with a low constant current output to the LED (no PWM). When the contact ring is connected to ground, it sends a signal to the converter which then changes the constant current output level to the high setting.

I don't want to get in an argument with you about your own product, but on my PD-S (which is the same as all the rest, as far as I know) I can clearly see the LED flickering rapidly when I turn it on in low mode and wave it around, exactly the same as I see with the Haiku in low or medium modes, and with my PF Tasklight Two which uses the fluPIC driver. If that high-speed flickering isn't PWM, then I must be misunderstanding the concept of PWM; if so, someone please correct me.[/QUOTE]

 

[mcmc]

fyr, you might have dirty contacts that when jostled in being waved around, that cause the contact to disconnect intermittently?

 

[fyrstormer]

fyr, you might have dirty contacts that when jostled in being waved around, that cause the contact to disconnect intermittently?

No, it's too even, and the contacts are nice and shiny besides. I can just barely see it when I wave the light around as fast as I dare, but it's clearly flickering at a controlled rate. If there is an input current resistor in play, it could be causing the induction coil to not charge fully and then discharge before the next charge cycle begins, but I'm using RCR123s so the voltage should be high enough to bypass the boost circuit entirely when the battery is fresh. I'll try to take a picture of what I'm seeing when I get home tonight.