Toyota Recalls - Observations?

[GLOCK18]

I own 2 car a 2005 Toyota Tacoma and a 2007 Mercedes S550, as for repairs zero issues with my Tacoma, on the other hand the S550 had the transmission replaced the front brakes replaced twice the HID system replace once. Go to show even the best car have issues.

 

[Monocrom]

I own 2 car a 2005 Toyota Tacoma and a 2007 Mercedes S550, as for repairs zero issues with my Tacoma, on the other hand the S550 had the transmission replaced the front brakes replaced twice the HID system replace once. Go to show even the best car have issues.

Definitely not the first time I've heard of a recent model Mercedes that needed major repairs after just a couple of years.

 

[StarHalo]

Mercedes has had a lot of reliability problems over the last several years; they've done a fantastic job of releasing dozens of new models, but somewhere in the shuffle the quality control got lost.

 

[was.lost.but.now.found]

There was a slashdot thread about this. US cars allow more or less open access to the EDR data (e.g. if you take your car for an oil change, or if the cops tow your car for improper parking, the mechanic can download data saying how fast you've been driving) while Toyota's official position is access is restricted without a court order. From a privacy perspective the Toyota approach is superior: the EDR is a recording device installed in the car without regard to the owner's wishes, so if it's going to be there at all, its contents should not be accessible to third parties without a compelling reason like an accident investigation. If Toyota has been obstructing investigations on purpose, that's bad, but some people are making it sound like they should instead just make the data available to every schmoe with a USB cable, which is also bad. The linked SLT article gives the impression that the Toyota EDR simply hasn't been used very much, and as such, there hasn't been much deployment of the equipment that reads it. It sounds like they're fixing that.

If you had read the article you would have seen that Toyota:

1. Gave inconsistent statements on what data was actually recorded by the EDR.

2. Called it an "experimental device", despite having been used in (edit: I believe approximately 19 million) vehicles since 2001.

3. Called it a prototype, unreliable for accident reconstruction, despite having been used in vehicles since 2001.

4. According to documents filed in court MAY have "deliberately stopped allowing its EDRs to collect critical information so it would not be forced to reveal it in court cases."

Edit: My tone always seems to come across as very harsh - apologies. What I was trying to say is it appeared that your entire response was based on the article's title and an assumption of it's content, when there were many critical points in the article that were not discussed in your comments. Also added a figure I found in Wikipedia of vehicles sold since 2001).

 

[gadget_lover]

What I was trying to say is it appeared that your entire response was based on the article's title and an assumption of it's content, when there were many critical points in the article that were not discussed in your comments.

I won't try to address all the points one by one either.

There were inconsistencies in the information that was gathered for the article, but not much different than the disparities that you would get if you call any non-technical person and ask them technical questions. Try calling your local phone company 10 times and ask why you can not use your phone number in a different city. Only 1% of the people who work there would know why. You would not be talking to that person. I suspect that the Toyota spokespeople were as knowledgeable of details as the average phone company PR flack.

I agree that Toyota's stance on the black box info is a bit more to my liking than the "anyone can read it" idea. Privacy about my driving is not necessarily a bad thing.

I'll hold off final judgment till all the facts are available. The suppositions and allegations are not quite the same.

Daniel

 

[StarHalo]

There's a whole lot of inconsistencies at this point; now there's a story from here in SoCal where a man is claiming the throttle stuck on his Prius - for half an hour. Long enough to have police escort him and communicate a plan through both their PAs and cell phones to have a cruiser pull in front of the Prius and rear-end it to a stop. The driver reported that putting the car in neutral "did nothing", and that he was afraid to turn the car off because it might be dangerous (?!). He also stated that he tried to brake for some time, long enough that he could smell the brakes burning.

I can't count how many problems there are with any one particular part of this story, but here's some easy ones:

- The Car & Driver braking tests I noted earlier (where there was virtually no difference in the braking distance regardless of what the engine was doing) used a 268hp V6 Camry; the Prius has 134hp (less if it's not a new model). The Prius also has a regenerative braking system which increases brake strength.

- A Prius can not only be put into neutral at any speed, but if you put the shifter into any non-forward gear (park, reverse) while the car is moving, it automatically defaults to neutral.

- A Prius can be turned off at any time by holding down the starter button for three seconds; as an added bonus, the power brake assist will still work since it can draw from the battery.

Et cetera. This is getting ridiculous now. How long before there's a multi-state pursuit of someone claiming their throttle is stuck?

 

[Brigadier]

There's a whole lot of inconsistencies at this point; now there's a story from here in SoCal where a man is claiming the throttle stuck on his Prius - for half an hour. Long enough to have police escort him and communicate a plan through both their PAs and cell phones to have a cruiser pull in front of the Prius and rear-end it to a stop. The driver reported that putting the car in neutral "did nothing", and that he was afraid to turn the car off because it might be dangerous (?!). He also stated that he tried to brake for some time, long enough that he could smell the brakes burning.

I can't count how many problems there are with any one particular part of this story, but here's some easy ones:

- The Car & Driver braking tests I noted earlier (where there was virtually no difference in the braking distance regardless of what the engine was doing) used a 268hp V6 Camry; the Prius has 134hp (less if it's not a new model). The Prius also has a regenerative braking system which increases brake strength.

- A Prius can not only be put into neutral at any speed, but if you put the shifter into any non-forward gear (park, reverse) while the car is moving, it automatically defaults to neutral.

- A Prius can be turned off at any time by holding down the starter button for three seconds; as an added bonus, the power brake assist will still work since it can draw from the battery.

Et cetera. This is getting ridiculous now. How long before there's a multi-state pursuit of someone claiming their throttle is stuck?

And the trial lawyers are just licking their chop$.......

 

[Flying Turtle]

Just heard a news report on the radio. Engineers and newspeople are heading to California after hearing of a '08 Prius happily accelerating. I think it's just the ghost of Edsel Ford having fun.

Geoff

 

[RA40]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...03/09/AR2010030903757.html?hpid=moreheadlines

On the same day that the automaker launched a counterattack against the assertion that electronics may be at the heart of its runaway-acceleration problem, a Toyota Prius with an apparently stuck gas pedal took its driver on a 30-mile wild ride on an interstate not far from Toyota's U.S. headquarters in Southern California.

Outside of San Diego on Monday, James Sikes found himself behind the wheel of his blue Toyota 2008 Prius hybrid with what he said later was a stuck accelerator. In an interview with ABC News after the incident, from which he emerged safely, Sikes said his Prius sped up to 94 mph on its own.

I bet there will be some good deals on used Toyota's now.

 

[gadget_lover]

I'd put more credence in these stories if it were not for rememberences of my teen age years. Once I experienced a stuck throttle. No biggie, I turned it off and pulled over.

BUT! Being a smart young man I proceeded to rehearse how I would lie about it being stuck the next time I was caught speeding. "Honest Officer. It was stuck and I was trying to get it unstuck!"

I developed a better sense of morals as I matured, and would not think of doing that now, but I suspect that others would. I once witnessed a hit and run where the guy got out his car, climbed back in and fled, slowing at 5 traffic signals (I was following him) before he blew through them. In court ( I was a witness) he claimed that his brakes had failed. Yeah. Right.

Of course, I'd like to hear from the police if the prius ever changed speed at all. The Prius is extremely good at maintaining a very steady speed. You can't drive 30 miles on southern california freeways at 94 MPH without slowing down. And there is not always a shoulder or breakdown lane.

Boy am I going to feel silly if we find out that all the toyotas have been running out of control at the rate of 1 or two per day for the last 14 years. If you believe all the news reports, that's how often it's happening now.

Daniel

 

[Monocrom]

Just heard a news report on the radio. Engineers and newspeople are heading to California after hearing of a '08 Prius happily accelerating. I think it's just the ghost of Edsel Ford having fun.

Geoff

CNN interviewed him. He admitted not putting the car into neutral because it never even occured to him to do that.

 

[kitelights]

CNN interviewed him. He admitted not putting the car into neutral because it never even occured to him to do that.

I saw him in an interview (don't remember which network) and his comment was 'that he was afraid to put it in neutral for fear that the car might flip or something.'

After hearing about the incident, like Tom, I was concerned that I might be eating my words about my confidence in Toyota. After hearing his statement, I could only think 'here's an idiot that has no business with a driver's license.'

I read the full article referenced on the black box 'information withholding' and I didn't draw the same conclusions that was.lost did.

I hadn't thought about the privacy issue until Paulr brought it up and it's a good one.

As to inconsistencies, it's kinda like the 4 gospels that often seem to contradict each other, but they're from four different perspectives. Perhaps the information gathered has changed over the years - like braking info being added in later years. Time will tell and I'll reserve my final judgment until the facts come out. For now, the article is nothing more than a continuation of the witch hunt to me.

One more personal experience. I was in an accident that involved a Camry rear ending another car. The Camry was totaled from damage to the front end, but the airbag didn't deploy. I contacted Toyota to get the 'specs' on airbag deployment and couldn't. The reason I couldn't get them, is that there are too many parameters that influence deployment and I suspect that the black box is similar in at least interpreting the information that it gathers.

 

[Monocrom]

I saw him in an interview (don't remember which network) and his comment was 'that he was afraid to put it in neutral for fear that the car might flip or something.'

After hearing about the incident, like Tom, I was concerned that I might be eating my words about my confidence in Toyota. After hearing his statement, I could only think 'here's an idiot that has no business with a driver's license.'

Agreed.

After seeing the interview, it became obvious that the driver of the Prius is a moron when it comes to operating an automobile.

 

[Flying Turtle]

After hearing about the incident, like Tom, I was concerned that I might be eating my words about my confidence in Toyota. After hearing his statement, I could only think 'here's an idiot that has no business with a driver's license.'

This was my immediate thought too. In this particular case I'm very suspicious that this guy's just out to make a fast buck, or else he thought he'd been nabbed for speeding and figured he'd try the "Toyota Defense".

On the other hand I dare say most drivers would not think to throw the shifter into Neutral, at least until some seconds had passed and speeds had become dangerous.

Geoff

 

[GLOCK18]

If you listen to the 911 call on the '08 Prius driver, the 911 operator ask can you put in neutral, driver pause 10 seconds then says no, operator ask can you turn the car off right away driver says no, then the speed goes from 81 to 84 . It all seems kind of wired.

 

[flashfan]

The plot thickens. Just heard on the radio that "Prius Guy" is supposedly more than $700,000 in debt, had filed for bankruptcy, and still owes thousands for his Prius. The report went on to say that Prius Guy has stated that he is not going to sue, but supposedly did ask for a new car. An earlier news story mentioned that the guy works in real estate. Hmm...

All of the above may have nothing whatsoever to do with the alleged acceleration problem, but it certainly makes for a good story. The police officer did seem to support the idea of a runaway car, as I heard him (officer) state that he could smell the burning/burnt brakes. It's up to the "experts" now to determine if there is/was a problem with the car.

On a related matter, also on radio news today was a story that Edmunds has reported sales of Toyota vehicles in the first week of March are up 47% over last year! There must be some great bargains to be had, or are scammers looking to cash in?

 

[Brigadier]

On a related matter, also on radio news today was a story that Edmunds has reported sales of Toyota vehicles in the first week of March are up 47% over last year! There must be some great bargains to be had, or are scammers looking to cash in?

Well, if I were in the market for a truck right now, I would buy a Tundra. Why? I have always been a Chevy guy, but no anymore. Now that they are Government Motors, and are using fascist tactics to attack their competition, they will never get another dime from me.

 

[jtr1962]

On a related matter, also on radio news today was a story that Edmunds has reported sales of Toyota vehicles in the first week of March are up 47% over last year! There must be some great bargains to be had, or are scammers looking to cash in?

Or maybe people realize Toyotas come with a great perk - a ready-made excuse in case you get pulled over for speeding. "Hey officer, the gas pedal got stuck and I was afraid of flipping the car if I hit the brakes!"

 

[kitelights]

This post was written in response to a post by Paulr about a report that State Farm reported high number of claims to the NHTSA in 2004. When I responded and posted, his post was gone?

Read it again. The writer wants you to believe that the stats are related to acceleration, but it doesn't say that. The Camry has been the best selling sedan for quite some time. Stands to reason if there's more of them out there, there's more of them to be involved in accidents.

The CA Prius incident appears even more likely to be a fake. 'Federal investigators' looked at the car and were unable to replicate the problem and unable to find evidence of the type of braking claimed.

With all the reports constantly in the news of vehicles being driven through buildings because someone stepped on the gas instead of the brakes, the fact that there are so many Toyotas out there might account for several of the reported 'acceleration related' accidents.

I'm not saying that there are no issues. My point is that Toyota has a history of taking care of it's problems far and above any other auto manufacturer. They've bought back Tacomas because they may only last for 5-10 years (rust problems) that don't directly affect being sued for liability due to injury.

It's out of character for them to dodge a liability issue. I just don't believe that that's the case. I still believe it's a witch hunt.

 

[KD5XB]

The most obvious thing I can see, and one which is being ignored by just about everybody --

1. The United States government now owns a big amount of General Motors.

2. Toyota competes with General Motors, among others.

3. The United States government is now investigating Toyota.

It may all be totally on the up & up, but it really doesn't take much thought at all to see a conflict of interest here.