Ultrafire 18650 3000mA exploded
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spruce_m00se
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I am looking for a good guide on how to charge protected cells, I couldnt find any after hours of googling. I have some CGR18650 CE cells which appear to be panasonic, but when put on my hobby charger it notifies me that the lithium type is wrong when i choose LIpo(obviously wrong) and LiIo (i dont know if wrong) LiFe lets me charge them , but they only charge up to 3.6v.
I assume they should go up to 4.2V like most lithium cells I have looked at in the past,
I have looked on the data sheet for them and they metnion charging them up to 4.2v and discharging them at 260ma in order to find capacity,
What am I missing? why wont they charge? they were pulled from a laptop pack, but sat at 3.5v so I assume they arent dead
I dont wanna burn my house down though through misuse,
SilverFox
Flashaholic
Hello Spruce m00se,
Welcome to CPF.
The first thing to recognize is that Panasonic individual cells are not protected. When used in something like a laptop, the cells are put together into a battery pack and that battery pack has protection circuitry attached to it. When you removed the cells from the battery pack you ended up with bare cells with no protection circuit.
You need to review your charger manual. Many chargers use the Li-Po setting to charge to 4.2 volts and the Li-Ion setting to charge to 4.1 volts. If your charger is similar, either would work for charging your cells.
Tom
Welcome to CPF.
The first thing to recognize is that Panasonic individual cells are not protected. When used in something like a laptop, the cells are put together into a battery pack and that battery pack has protection circuitry attached to it. When you removed the cells from the battery pack you ended up with bare cells with no protection circuit.
You need to review your charger manual. Many chargers use the Li-Po setting to charge to 4.2 volts and the Li-Ion setting to charge to 4.1 volts. If your charger is similar, either would work for charging your cells.
Tom
thedoc007
Flashlight Enthusiast
This may have been correct at one time (edit: it definitely was), but it is substantially off for modern 18650s like the NCR18650A/B.
http://lygte-info.dk/info/BatteryChargePercent UK.html
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my ultrafire 18650 4200mha, just explote, I bought about 1 month ago, 6 of them, i was regulary chargin, but yesterday i was testing with multitester and I feel a little hot, i forgot, and today in have my charger with 1 battery, then i put the another one, and all of the suddend I saw a flame, so as soon I saw that i start to blow and the fire stop, It was scary, fortunaly I was in front of, don't want to know if was house out, so I'm gonnna trash all that and buy another brand.
I just create an account here just to warning everyone, so since i'm new look like I can't post pictures.
I just create an account here just to warning everyone, so since i'm new look like I can't post pictures.
Phlogiston
Enlightened
The largest 18650 currently available has a capacity of 3600 mAh. Anything that claims more than that is guaranteed to be a fake.
In my opinion, people sell fake Ultrafire cells so often that it's not worth the risk of buying them at all, no matter what capacity they claim to have.
In my opinion, people sell fake Ultrafire cells so often that it's not worth the risk of buying them at all, no matter what capacity they claim to have.
markr6
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Yes, buying a quality Panasonic for about $8 is definitely a solid $8 worth of peace of mind.
Hell, it's no secret that real ultrafire cells are nothing more than old laptop 18650s with an ultrafire wrapper put around them. Obviously what you get with the ultrafire name is going to vary considerably, battery to battery. Even the "real" ones are best avoided.
bladesmith3
Enlightened
RoyWalker
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So how long approx'ly should you recharge an 18650? 4 hours? 6 hours? (of course not overnight)
SilverFox
Flashaholic
Hello RoyWalker,
Welcome to CPF.
Charge time is dependent upon the depth of discharge, the capacity of the cell you are charging, and the charge rate of the charger. As you can see, more information is needed to answer your question.
Tom
Welcome to CPF.
Charge time is dependent upon the depth of discharge, the capacity of the cell you are charging, and the charge rate of the charger. As you can see, more information is needed to answer your question.
Tom
RoyWalker
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Goodness, this is like learning a whole new language. Depth of discharge? Capacity?
It says 3800 mAh on it.
thedoc007
Flashlight Enthusiast
Read a few posts up. Anything that claims more than 3600 mAh is a flat-out lie. No idea what the actual capacity is, but I'd bet it is a LOT less than advertised.
Depth of discharge means how low the cell is...let's say you only use half the capacity...that means you are at fifty percent depth of discharge. Obviously the lower you go, the longer it will take to charge, given a consistent rate of charge.
Any decent lithium-ion charger will automatically stop charging when the cell is full...at around 4.2 volts for a standard cell. There is no set amount of time you need to charge for...
RoyWalker
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Oh okay, thanks a lot. That makes sense now.
I have two chargers - one has Chinese written all over the back of it and the other says Travel Charger for video/digital camera. Output DC 4.2v---650 mAh. I guess as
the little light turns green, it's good to go?
I have two chargers - one has Chinese written all over the back of it and the other says Travel Charger for video/digital camera. Output DC 4.2v---650 mAh. I guess as
the little light turns green, it's good to go?
markr6
Flashaholic
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Maybe. I have one like that which charges at 480mA. Nice compact charger, but it charges my cells to 4.22v. Getting a little high for me since this probably reduces the total life of the cell. Sometimes the chargers will say something like 4.2v +/- 0.1v
^ same here, mine also says travel charger for video/digital camera.. it was a cheapy Ultrafire charger that came with 2, allegedly 3000mAh Ultrafire 18650's, which came with a cheap zooming flashlight. The 18650 Ultrafire's tested to not even 800mAh, so I am guessing it is a small 16340 inside connected by wires to the outer housing of an 18650. I dont use them. They say protected, but have NO protection circuit actually on them.
The charger takes forever to charge real 18650 cells, and I don't trust it. Do yourself a big favor and ditch all of that, get a Nitecore i2 or i4 or an Xstar (some decent $15-20 charger) and some AW, Orbtronic, or KeepPower cells.. you don't need to be getting scammed, nor risk blowing yourself up.
And those 3600mAh cells that are out now... still not very common. Realistically, any *Fire brand (not SureFire) that claims over 3400mAh is for sure fake, and even those like mine that claim 3000mAh are probably not true either.
The charger takes forever to charge real 18650 cells, and I don't trust it. Do yourself a big favor and ditch all of that, get a Nitecore i2 or i4 or an Xstar (some decent $15-20 charger) and some AW, Orbtronic, or KeepPower cells.. you don't need to be getting scammed, nor risk blowing yourself up.
And those 3600mAh cells that are out now... still not very common. Realistically, any *Fire brand (not SureFire) that claims over 3400mAh is for sure fake, and even those like mine that claim 3000mAh are probably not true either.
stateoftheart
Enlightened
That's why I don't like Chinese cells in series or any series for that matter. If your going to go unprotected or Chinese protected in series its risqué business.
conanthewarrior
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Terrible to read, I did have a 99p battery coming as a laugh but I may bin it now. I only use samsung batteries(at the moment) and a nitecore charger.
I think its best, as a rule of thumb...to simply not buy from unknown random internet sellers on ebay, amazon, etc....as the reviews are fake almost 100% of the time on battery sales...and the small percentage of honest dealers are too hard to tell from the mass of fakers.
After that, don't buy anything ending in the word "fire" unless the only prefix is "sure".
Essentially, you personally cannot buy a Panasonic 18650 FROM Panasonic (Same for Sony, etc). They only sell surplus laptop and Tesla, etc, production, to mass producers of after market/private label cells.
NONE come protected. The after market reseller adds the protection, the over wrap, etc.
ALL the cells you see are made by some major manufacturer, sold to a reseller, and, relabeled.
The PROBLEM is that in China for example, there is no enforcement, and, clones/knock offs are normal, not the exception. No one actually has rights to the name "Ultrafire". There is no "Real" Ultrafire. You can buy Ultra fire wraps, and make your OWN Ultrafire cells. (There ARE companies fighting to own it...no one has won yet..)
Part of the above problem is anyone can rip open used laptops, take the used 18650 out of them, put on a wrapper and/or even a fake PCB...and put anything on the label they want...its just ink.
The 18650 might have started its life as a 2600 mAh cell...and be about a 1000 mAh cell now....no problem, put a new wrapper on it, and sell it on ebay as a Suretocatchfire 10,000 MAH super high capacity Protected Cell.
Unless you have a way to test it, you may not know its both dangerous AND over rated.
Some don't even HAVE an OLD 18650 in it...some had a few OLD AAA inside, some had flour, etc....its a total crap shoot.
Another clue is the rating itself...and the price. If you think about it, why would a high capacity state of the art cell, that had protection added to it, sell for less than the cell it was supposed to be built from?
The Panasonics for example came in distinct mAh varieties, based upon their chemistry.
The most common were 2600, 2900, 3100, 3400 and lately, 3600. If a rating is IN BETWEEN those, say 3000, its fake. If its over 3400, its fake (They're not going yo use real 3600's). Even a rated 3400 is probably fake. (IMR and other cells have their own mAh break points though)
The chargers are probably either fake, or, so poorly soldered and thinly wired that they're a fire/explosion waiting to happen. Add fake protected cells to fake protected chargers, and you might as well have bought fireworks.
So, this is why its important to buy from trusted dealers...parties that don't accept fake stuff.
Don't trust the fake online reviews of the products, or the sellers...fake reviewing is a full time job in China for example. Its in their want ads.
If trusted people in this forum are OK with a vendor, they are probably OK. Even they can be hoodwinked by a bad apple in their supply chain...but the odds are way way down at least.
No one with a good reputation should sell you an Ultrafire though, ever.
After that, don't buy anything ending in the word "fire" unless the only prefix is "sure".
Essentially, you personally cannot buy a Panasonic 18650 FROM Panasonic (Same for Sony, etc). They only sell surplus laptop and Tesla, etc, production, to mass producers of after market/private label cells.
NONE come protected. The after market reseller adds the protection, the over wrap, etc.
ALL the cells you see are made by some major manufacturer, sold to a reseller, and, relabeled.
The PROBLEM is that in China for example, there is no enforcement, and, clones/knock offs are normal, not the exception. No one actually has rights to the name "Ultrafire". There is no "Real" Ultrafire. You can buy Ultra fire wraps, and make your OWN Ultrafire cells. (There ARE companies fighting to own it...no one has won yet..)
Part of the above problem is anyone can rip open used laptops, take the used 18650 out of them, put on a wrapper and/or even a fake PCB...and put anything on the label they want...its just ink.
The 18650 might have started its life as a 2600 mAh cell...and be about a 1000 mAh cell now....no problem, put a new wrapper on it, and sell it on ebay as a Suretocatchfire 10,000 MAH super high capacity Protected Cell.
Unless you have a way to test it, you may not know its both dangerous AND over rated.
Some don't even HAVE an OLD 18650 in it...some had a few OLD AAA inside, some had flour, etc....its a total crap shoot.
Another clue is the rating itself...and the price. If you think about it, why would a high capacity state of the art cell, that had protection added to it, sell for less than the cell it was supposed to be built from?
The Panasonics for example came in distinct mAh varieties, based upon their chemistry.
The most common were 2600, 2900, 3100, 3400 and lately, 3600. If a rating is IN BETWEEN those, say 3000, its fake. If its over 3400, its fake (They're not going yo use real 3600's). Even a rated 3400 is probably fake. (IMR and other cells have their own mAh break points though)
The chargers are probably either fake, or, so poorly soldered and thinly wired that they're a fire/explosion waiting to happen. Add fake protected cells to fake protected chargers, and you might as well have bought fireworks.
So, this is why its important to buy from trusted dealers...parties that don't accept fake stuff.
Don't trust the fake online reviews of the products, or the sellers...fake reviewing is a full time job in China for example. Its in their want ads.
If trusted people in this forum are OK with a vendor, they are probably OK. Even they can be hoodwinked by a bad apple in their supply chain...but the odds are way way down at least.
No one with a good reputation should sell you an Ultrafire though, ever.
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WarRaven
Flashlight Enthusiast
Indoor fireworks 👍
Loved that.
Loved that.
