W A R N I N G - BS Battery Explodes
- Thread starter JimH
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soffiler
Enlightened
Howard, you are a gentleman.
SilverFox
Flashaholic
Hello Jim,
Wow... How are you doing?
A point of clarification for this thread.
The cells involved were primary AA cells. I don't believe the chemistry is similar between the CR123 and AA cells.
A lot of testing has been done on the CR123 cells, and reverse charging a cell in a multi cell application caused the cell to "rapidly vent with flame." We have not done similar testing with the lithium AA cells.
While we don't know, we can speculate...
I do know that batteries store energy, and stored energy can be dangerous. I also am aware that all brands and types of batteries have had "issues."
The most memorable "incident" I have witnessed was the explosion of a lead acid truck battery. We were doing some work on a truck and had the hood lifted. Went to start it up and the battery exploded. In addition to smoke and fumes, we had acid spraying all over the place. Fortunately no one was seriously hurt, but several of us were washing acid off of our skin.
Think about that the next time you lift the hood and start your car in the garage with your kids nearby...
Did it make the news? No.
It is important for us to try to figure out what happened with Jim's light, but we must also accept that we may not be able to accurately do so. It would be a major effort to try to duplicate this in a controlled test...
The biggest problem would be the fact that these cells are no longer available. I am not sure a test run with Energizer cells would give us the same results.
At any rate, I hope Jim is still OK. It doesn't look like there was anything else in the drawer to set off the reaction, so either the cell failed within itself, or the light influenced the behavior of the cell. The fact that the other cells registered high voltage may suggest that the cell simply self destructed.
Tom
Wow... How are you doing?
A point of clarification for this thread.
The cells involved were primary AA cells. I don't believe the chemistry is similar between the CR123 and AA cells.
A lot of testing has been done on the CR123 cells, and reverse charging a cell in a multi cell application caused the cell to "rapidly vent with flame." We have not done similar testing with the lithium AA cells.
While we don't know, we can speculate...
I do know that batteries store energy, and stored energy can be dangerous. I also am aware that all brands and types of batteries have had "issues."
The most memorable "incident" I have witnessed was the explosion of a lead acid truck battery. We were doing some work on a truck and had the hood lifted. Went to start it up and the battery exploded. In addition to smoke and fumes, we had acid spraying all over the place. Fortunately no one was seriously hurt, but several of us were washing acid off of our skin.
Think about that the next time you lift the hood and start your car in the garage with your kids nearby...
Did it make the news? No.
It is important for us to try to figure out what happened with Jim's light, but we must also accept that we may not be able to accurately do so. It would be a major effort to try to duplicate this in a controlled test...
The biggest problem would be the fact that these cells are no longer available. I am not sure a test run with Energizer cells would give us the same results.
At any rate, I hope Jim is still OK. It doesn't look like there was anything else in the drawer to set off the reaction, so either the cell failed within itself, or the light influenced the behavior of the cell. The fact that the other cells registered high voltage may suggest that the cell simply self destructed.
Tom
Mr Happy
Flashlight Enthusiast
Sorry, but Kevin doesn't say there are three CR123A factories in the USA. He says:
- His cells are made by one of the "big three" companies (D*****, E***** or R*****?)
- His cells are made here in the USA
LED61
Flashlight Enthusiast
So according to you in numeral one, Panasonic--supposedly the one and only 123 manufacturer is not one of the big three-- ? I am implying this because you have no P***** in numeral 1.
And the post makes mention of battery manufacturers implying more than one. Whatever, the confusion still lingers no matter how you interpret it.
I'm wondering if there is lingering smoke damage/noxious smell from this fire in that room or rest of the house. I'm still amazed that those adjacent cells didn't also explode from the fire/heat.
I now have all my lithium cells in a rubber lined metal toolbox in heated cement floor storage area. Took all the ones out of lights that are not being used immediately.
I now have all my lithium cells in a rubber lined metal toolbox in heated cement floor storage area. Took all the ones out of lights that are not being used immediately.
greenLED
Flashaholic
Yes, since before I joined CPF.
JimH
Flashlight Enthusiast
Hi, everyone. Thanks for your concern about my health. I think I acted quickly enough in clearing the area and evacuating the smoke from the room that I am currently not experiencing any ill effects.
So far, Canuke's explanation of what might have happened seems to be the most logical.
There is no lingering smell in the room, but the drawer where the explosion occurred still smells too bad (when I open it) to start a clean up. When I get a warm day here, I'll open up the house and turn on the whole house fan. Modamag cautions me that I should wear a high performance face mask before attempting any cleanup from a lithium type fire. I'll have to see If I can find one for a reasonable price.
jzmtl
Flashlight Enthusiast
As far as I know duracell 123a are made by panasonic, so maybe panasonic make 123a for the other two as well.
batterystation
Enlightened
JimH,
Please contact me so I can make all of this right with you, including clean up. Get a good mask and fax me the bill. I could speculate as others here but really don't know why this happened. Low current drain caused something to happen? What pisses me off the most is that it got past UL and that was a small fortune towards SAFETY.
I am sorry and will do what needs to be done to make this up to you. To all on the forum, the fact that we now make the CR123A here does not mean the old ones are defective. We sold 2 million of them and just decided to make them better by bringing them home. We are now selling them to the military but could not before due to origin of manufacturer.
EDIT-Keep in mind this thread will be here long after the sale, but I did just put L-91 AA on the CPF specials page at cost for the weekend. If anyone needs lithium AAs, here they are at cost for a short time to help make up for this.
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Glad all is well Jim!!!
Good to hear you are taking such care of you're customers!!!! That is awesome service, I don't care who you are or what you think of all of this, thats just above and beyond, I commend you!!!
And you're post saved me PM'ing you, I got to looking and the 123's I have are made in PRC. I was going to ask if it was a "real" safety concern or not, and you answered before I could even ask!!
No matter how you stack it, this was a fluke, and nothing more!! Just very well publicized. Sorry you had to take so much heat for this, but VERY glad to see you stand behind you're product as well as you have!!!!
Just in case, I have NO affiliation with BS, and Kevin wouldn't know me from Adam if we were to meet or talk. I just know how hard it is to start something, then have it publicized that something went wrong!!!
Good to hear you are taking such care of you're customers!!!! That is awesome service, I don't care who you are or what you think of all of this, thats just above and beyond, I commend you!!!
And you're post saved me PM'ing you, I got to looking and the 123's I have are made in PRC. I was going to ask if it was a "real" safety concern or not, and you answered before I could even ask!!
No matter how you stack it, this was a fluke, and nothing more!! Just very well publicized. Sorry you had to take so much heat for this, but VERY glad to see you stand behind you're product as well as you have!!!!
Just in case, I have NO affiliation with BS, and Kevin wouldn't know me from Adam if we were to meet or talk. I just know how hard it is to start something, then have it publicized that something went wrong!!!
Robocop
Moderator, *Mammoth Killer*
Howard I have to say you seem like a classy man as well and it was nice of you to think this over as you did.....good effort on your part and it is appreciated.
I may get a little angry simply because I know Kevin and all that he has done for us as a group. As a newer member you may not know that he was largly responsible for rechargeable 123 cells coming into the picture and he had a huge amount of bad luck and personal loss in that adventure. The older members will know what I am speaking of however the effort Kevin put forth was incredible. Not sure if this even applies however it goes a long way to show that I do believe BS sales good products and surely appreciates us all.
We all know the risks of certain cells and honestly I still use many BS cells in my lights however I never store any brand of cell in any lights. I reallt think it is a shame that there is a certain doubt on BS cells as Kevin seems to have always done the right thing and has just had crappy luck. I hope others will really see the risks of all cells and continue to use his business....he has been a valuable resource to us all both in the past as well as today.
Sorry to you Howard if I came off a little harsh and again your effort in editing your post is appreciated. It is a pleasure to see newer members with some class and welcome to CPF by the way.
I may get a little angry simply because I know Kevin and all that he has done for us as a group. As a newer member you may not know that he was largly responsible for rechargeable 123 cells coming into the picture and he had a huge amount of bad luck and personal loss in that adventure. The older members will know what I am speaking of however the effort Kevin put forth was incredible. Not sure if this even applies however it goes a long way to show that I do believe BS sales good products and surely appreciates us all.
We all know the risks of certain cells and honestly I still use many BS cells in my lights however I never store any brand of cell in any lights. I reallt think it is a shame that there is a certain doubt on BS cells as Kevin seems to have always done the right thing and has just had crappy luck. I hope others will really see the risks of all cells and continue to use his business....he has been a valuable resource to us all both in the past as well as today.
Sorry to you Howard if I came off a little harsh and again your effort in editing your post is appreciated. It is a pleasure to see newer members with some class and welcome to CPF by the way.
sceva
Newly Enlightened
JimH; I am glad that you are OK. It sounds like Kevin is trying very much to make you whole on this.
I have used Battery Station cells in my SF E1L and contiue to do so. Since it is a 1 cell light I took advantage of his mis-matched cells offer and bought 50. They are the older imports and I have had very good results with them. They appear to last well in my light. I have only had a problem with 1 of them that was dim when I put it in the light so I just tossed it as the cost on these were only about .60 each. When I use these up (This will take a while I think) I hope to buy another batch of mis-matched cells from BS as they are a great deal and I don't worry about them at all since I limit them to my one cell light.
I have used Battery Station cells in my SF E1L and contiue to do so. Since it is a 1 cell light I took advantage of his mis-matched cells offer and bought 50. They are the older imports and I have had very good results with them. They appear to last well in my light. I have only had a problem with 1 of them that was dim when I put it in the light so I just tossed it as the cost on these were only about .60 each. When I use these up (This will take a while I think) I hope to buy another batch of mis-matched cells from BS as they are a great deal and I don't worry about them at all since I limit them to my one cell light.
Hallis
Flashlight Enthusiast
Wow Jim im glad to hear that you're ok. I dont own any of these AA's but own PLENTY of the older BS CR123a (the blue & yellow ones that were $1 each) I keep 8 of them in a Pellican 1010 case and an additional pack of 10 or 20 (cant remember off the top of my head) as they come shipped from BS. I was sitting at my computer one night and i heard a pop real close and immediately shut my eyes and flinched because it scaret the HELL out of me as it was after midnight and i was tired. I opened my eyes to see the rubber back half of my SL Scorpion fall back down onto the desk. I kept it bezel down on my desk right next to my monitor as my go-to emergency light in case the power went off. The light was still sitting in place standing straight up but white smoke was comming from the switch. i touched the aluminum to make sure it wasnt hot and grabbed the light, ran into the restroom and opened it in the sink, Sure enough one of the batteries had popped, the battery didnt 100% discintigrate like yours did but there was an obvious blast pattern on the top of the battery. I disposed of the cells that were in the light and tossed my poor dead scorpion in the trash. I'm just glad the cell vented rather than catching fire. I'd usually been less cautious with primary cells unlike the rechargables which i treat like high explosives and never leave them unattended while charging.
*shrugs* im not sure what to make of all this. Although now after reading all this (as i usually dont hit the battery forum) as soon as i can put my hands on my pack of CR123's they may be headed to the battery disposal in favor of the newer ones made in this country.
I'm just glad i stumbled across this thread while looking for sources for a DSD charger for my Pila and Wolf Eyes 150a cells.
Take care and be safe guys. We take them for granted sometimes but these are little sealed tubes of hazerdous chemical reactions that drive our lumens.
Shane
*shrugs* im not sure what to make of all this. Although now after reading all this (as i usually dont hit the battery forum) as soon as i can put my hands on my pack of CR123's they may be headed to the battery disposal in favor of the newer ones made in this country.
I'm just glad i stumbled across this thread while looking for sources for a DSD charger for my Pila and Wolf Eyes 150a cells.
Take care and be safe guys. We take them for granted sometimes but these are little sealed tubes of hazerdous chemical reactions that drive our lumens.
Shane
tvodrd
*Flashaholic* ,
Geez, I just found this thread. Glad you didn't have it stored with your reloading supplies! :green:
I had a RR lantern stolen from my shack back when, and can only hope the last of my BS AA liths were in it. :devil:
Kevin, thank you for trying to bring low cost AA liths to the masses. :bow: (No good deed goes unpunished! :green
Levity aside, I think it's time to "unload" the majority of lights I have laying around, and am unlikely to grab on short notice. The penalties in the past were leaky cells and corroded/ruined lights. The penalties with lith primaries in multi-cell lights today can include having your home burned down!
I suspect Canuke is onto the root cause.
Larry
I had a RR lantern stolen from my shack back when, and can only hope the last of my BS AA liths were in it. :devil:
Kevin, thank you for trying to bring low cost AA liths to the masses. :bow: (No good deed goes unpunished! :green
Levity aside, I think it's time to "unload" the majority of lights I have laying around, and am unlikely to grab on short notice. The penalties in the past were leaky cells and corroded/ruined lights. The penalties with lith primaries in multi-cell lights today can include having your home burned down!
I suspect Canuke is onto the root cause.
Larry
