Was I expecting too much?

[Racer]

My living is possible because of a slew of virtual machines all running on a high powered box. Plus I can expense it all, where I'd probably get yelled at for trying to expense a flashlight, heh. If I need a top of the line modular PSU it's rubber stamped. More DDR3 RAM, rubber stamped. Just like if I were a mechanic, the thought wouldn't cross my brain about using cheap mechanic's tools. I'd want the best tools possible for the job. 5 minutes of down time could cost me the price of the tool in both examples so in that respect money is no object.

I'd like to look at my growing collection the same way I'd look at a growing collection of hand/power tools but so far it's looking more like a hobby than something I can realistically justify needing.

But having said all that, I think my addiction is heading towards being a semi-expensive hobby that doesn't need any justification other than it's shiny and I want it. Usually I have to buy her a shiny object of equal or greater value though :devil:

 

[LGT]

So, went to going gear store (which was great experience by the way) and bought my first "good light"
Is a 4sevens quark x aa2.
Yep, is decently bright, but have some remorse. Was I expecting too much from a $65 light vs my previous cheaper lights?
Didn't expect it to scratch when I took off the clip. Nor the clip to bend so easy.
Didn't expect the batteries to rattle inside.

Sure it's bright, but just not sure it's worth it.
Did I buy the wrong brand, or am I expecting too much for that price range?

And I'm seriously asking opinions, not griping about it. I bought it, I scratched it, it's mine now.
:thanks:
JD

Without getting into the quality of 4sevens. What you're going through is probably what many here have gone through. Sometimes a light will go beyond you're expectations, other times it won't. A light with glowing reviews just might not fit your needs or style, while one not talked about much can turn out to be your favorite.

 

[budynabuick]

EDIT: And I don't understand how some of you guys with your ridiculously expensive lights could ever stand to watch them bounce down the driveway. I'm totally fine with watching a $50 or $60 light bounce on the ground but I couldn't bear the thought of dropping some $500 custom light or even using it to do tasks like working on the truck or crawling through the attic.



OTOH, some folks might think a 60$ light is ridiculously priced.
!

Keith

 

[budynabuick]

JD

For now I have a Klarus Mi X6 Titanium on the way for keychain use. Hope I am not disappointed.

If you like a floody as in VERY floody. But with 85 Lm it can back it up. If you like a well built, functional, did i say floody? light with lots of power, nice one hand operation, great run time you will not be disappointed. One caveat (isn't there always?) hope yours is not like mine and that is the threads. Mine were so bad i almost threw it back in the box and shipped it back. So i got my race set and went to work. About 30 mins later it was working pretty good. Now over the next 3 wks it is now twisting it's little heart out. Maybe mine was that 1-10 and your threads will be fine. BTW, ii saw another one without the little flat washer on the head so look out for that. My little Klarus is my go to light. I unclip it when i shower and when i go to bed and other than that it is arond my neck. Hope you like yours as well as i do mine. I mght ad the specs say 70 min on high. With a 950 ma imedion at 90 mins its still giving out around 60-70 lms.

Keith

 

[LGT]

EDIT: And I don't understand how some of you guys with your ridiculously expensive lights could ever stand to watch them bounce down the driveway. I'm totally fine with watching a $50 or $60 light bounce on the ground but I couldn't bear the thought of dropping some $500 custom light or even using it to do tasks like working on the truck or crawling through the attic. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
OTOH, some folks might think a 60$ light is ridiculously priced.<br>
!<br>
<br>
Keith

If that's what they want to use their lights for, then so be it. IMO there's nothing finer then using your lights, no matter the price, to accomplish your task. I'm not in the $500 range yet. But dropping my $200 HDS lights doesn't bother me because I know when I pick it up, it'll still be working. Also, I don't really see how your post relates to the OP.

 

[OCD]

... A light with glowing reviews just might not fit your needs or style, while one not talked about much can turn out to be your favorite.

There is something to be said here. Not to veer OT, but read a few of the posts in the HDS vs McGizmo thread. Arguably these are two of the best flashlights around and many people prefer one over the other. Just how it is.

My only 4Sevens light (so far) is a 2AA Turbo, just happened to be my first "quality" LED light. (I use the term "quality" as it was better than ANYTHING that could be bought at a B&M store.) I had nothing else to compare it to and thought is was the shiz-nit. I felt the fit and finish was really good. Do I still think so? Yes. Is it comparable to my HDS? No way - but that's apples and oranges. I've had no problems with this light...but to be fair, I have never EDC'd it. It is my bed-side light, programmed on moon-mode and turbo. Looking back, I probably wouldn't have spent $75 on the Turbo model as I bought it for its throw. Now that I several large-bezel, dedicated throwers, I would have been better served buying a regular tactical model and saved some money. But what's done is done. The fact that I can lego this light with different tail caps (flush or raised, forward or reverse clicky), different bodies (1xAA or 1xCR123) makes ME feel this was a good purchase for ME. I still plan on getting a 1x123 body for it some day.

I certainly hope I don't have to utilize 4seven's warranty and they are still around (and a major player) in 5, 10 or even 20 years.

The only light that I have had ANY problems with was my Jetbeam RRT-0 which happened to have 2 separate issues... after being dropped, one of the switch contacts came un-soldered. I fixed this myself. Later, I noticed the bezel portion (not the bezel itself) always seemed to becoming loose. Turns out the threads became stripped. Shipped it back to the dealer who sent it back to Jetbeam who fixed it under warranty.


In today's information age, I think its possible to do too much research (reading reviews, looking at pictures, etc) so that once you order a light, the anticipation of receiving it can almost build it up beyond initial expectations. Then you're left wondering if you expected to much. Just my $.02

 

[RedLED]

People buy Surefires because you can run them over with a Humvee and they still work, not because Surefire will replace it in exchange for a cool story.

The best warranty is one you never need to use. I mean no disrespect, but I've noticed that the attitude "durability is less important than periodic expert maintenance" is a much more prevalent attitude in Europe, where help is never far away. You need to understand, approximately half of the USA's landmass is so sparsely-populated that the nearest car shop is more than an hour's drive away, mail to the next town takes multiple days to arrive, and if you get trapped in an emergency you may well die before anyone notices you're missing. That is why Americans tend to have a much stronger preference for equipment that is extremely difficult to break, even if it's heavier, less efficient, burns more gasoline, etc.

If a tool breaks while you're in the middle of nowhere, you may not get the chance to mail it back to the factory for service -- and even if you do, you could end up waiting weeks for it to return. It is arguable that a flashlight is not such a critical item in all but the most severe circumstances, but once you get used to having tools that last for a decade before they need more than an oil change, it's very hard to tolerate anything that requires more attention -- even if the repairs are free.

Since the quoted post was mine, I'll offer the explanation that upon examining the light I decided it wasn't worth repairing. There is absolutely no way a press-fit switch can possibly be reliable over the long term. The light was defective by design.

I have a small multi-tool in my pocket -- a SeberTool M4 made by SeberTech USA. This is my second one. The first one I got 11 years ago. It served me extremely well the entire time, until one day the pliers broke from metal fatigue. After a decade of trouble-free use, I was thrilled it had lasted that long. I went online to buy a new one...and the company was gone. They sold the design to another company, and their version of the same product was a piece of crap. I searched eBay for a couple months before someone posted the original version of the tool, and I paid whatever price I needed to win the auction. (less than $100, but only slightly.)

It's a good thing I didn't need warranty service on my SeberTool M4, because the company was gone by the time the tool broke. 4Sevens may be gone in ten years, too, it's impossible to say for sure. Heck, they could be gone next year. So I say again, the best warranty is the one you never need to use. There is no substitute for durability.

Ya, but there is an AMPM Mini Mart every half mile, and everyone has a Cell. phone...

 

[duro]

From my favorite movie, Tommyboy...

Haha, good one...Exactly.

 

[roadkill1109]

It really boils down to the love 'em or hate 'em relationship. As they say, you can't really please everyone. Sure there are 4Sevens haters and there are those who love 'em. Sometimes its only the few "noisy" ones that give negative feedback that get heard but that's not the vast majority of 4Sevens customers.

Sure there may be bad eggs from time to time, but you'll never see a more responsive customer service network that even their president / owner David Chow checks out the forums and helps out those who are experiencing issues with their 4Seven's products. No other manufacturer offers a ten-year warranty, no other manufacturer will just send you a replacement light right away. But it is correct, the best ever warranty is the one you never have to use, but its still a comforting thought to know that its there should you need it, and not just a week or a month warranty or a year's warranty like most of the lights coming from major manufacturers.

For 4Sevens, i guess its a wake up call to try to get it working good (perfect) 100%, all the time, the first time rather than 99.9% which is not enough for the discerning flashaholic.

To those who will never "waste" money on another 4Sevens, fine, its your decision. There are lots of other brands out there to choose from.

I'm not single-brand conscious, I own several lights from several companies because its the light i want and decided to get. If ever I get another 4Sevens light, its because the light has the features I WANT in the light.

'Nuff Said. Road out!

 

[Tommygun45]

It really boils down to the love 'em or hate 'em relationship. As they say, you can't really please everyone. Sure there are 4Sevens haters and there are those who love 'em. Sometimes its only the few "noisy" ones that give negative feedback that get heard but that's not the vast majority of 4Sevens customers.

Sure there may be bad eggs from time to time, but you'll never see a more responsive customer service network that even their president / owner David Chow checks out the forums and helps out those who are experiencing issues with their 4Seven's products. No other manufacturer offers a ten-year warranty, no other manufacturer will just send you a replacement light right away. But it is correct, the best ever warranty is the one you never have to use, but its still a comforting thought to know that its there should you need it, and not just a week or a month warranty or a year's warranty like most of the lights coming from major manufacturers.

For 4Sevens, i guess its a wake up call to try to get it working good (perfect) 100%, all the time, the first time rather than 99.9% which is not enough for the discerning flashaholic.

To those who will never "waste" money on another 4Sevens, fine, its your decision. There are lots of other brands out there to choose from.

I'm not single-brand conscious, I own several lights from several companies because its the light i want and decided to get. If ever I get another 4Sevens light, its because the light has the features I WANT in the light.

'Nuff Said. Road out!

This isn't exactly true. Surefire, HDS, and Malkoff offer warranty service far in excess of what 4Sevens offers. They all have lifetime owner transferable warranties. I messed up a Malkoff light, on my own. Put a battery in backwards by accident in the dark and fried it. When I called the company I talked to Gene Malkoff, the owner. We actually talked for about 45 minutes and threw ideas on new light designs back and forth. Before I had even got the M61 in the mail I had received its replacement, no questions asked, with a hand written note from his wife. And people of course rave about Henry at HDS. The two times I've had to deal with Surefire, they have overnighted me parts that I had broken by my own stupidity. For free. When you call 4Sevens you don't talk to David Chow. 4Sevens CS isn't bad by any means but there are companies out there which are exceptionally adept at CS. Like those I mentioned.

In the end we have to realize that this is how capitalism works. Especially in this day and age. Chow is running a company. Companies use economics to try to maximize their profits. It seems as though 4Sevens is going for the larger market. Tapping us for our knowledge and preferences and trying to apply them to a mass produced series of lights. Now he needs to make them as cheaply as possible while selling them for a price point the average consumer might be willing to pay. We can't blame that.

The companies with the truly high end stuff, we'll leave Surefire out, are smaller more attentive operations that seem to be more concerned with putting out the finest lighting tools possible. To each their own. If 4sevens is selling a subpar product it is our job to report on it. We've certainly hammered companies like Nitecore and some of the newer Jetbeam stuff due to their fall off in quality. If we're lucky the company realizes that saving a few pennies on the thickness of the walls or using cheap anodizing is going to get them hammered on forums and might result in a decent enough decline in sales to make it not worth their while. We get to vote with our dollars.

 

[reppans]

I have couple of 4Seven's lights (Quark AA/AA^2, and Revo SS), and purchased a couple more as gifts. Also have a Zebralight H51w. I use them a lot and have had no issues with any of them, and they've taken their share of tumbles. I love them all. I realize these brands are not in the top echelon of quality, and also know that as mechanical and electrical devices, they are subject to failure. So I just carry one as a back-up light - the AAA Revo. The chances that two lights will fail on me at the same time get pretty slim. Does buying a really high quality light eliminate the possibility of failure? Of course not, but in theory, it should reduce the percentage chance. Just doing a quick search on "surefire+warranty" or "hds+warranty" on this site brings up enough failure hits to make one wonder, though.

Regardless, I sometimes enjoy paying for really high quality stuff with things I care about, and as budding flashaholic, I think I just crossed that line recently and was ready to step-up to a nicer light with THIS THREAD. Unfortunately for me, it seems no high(est) quality manufacturer produces what I need - a single AA with low low lumens and long runtimes (ultra-light camper w/night-adjusted eyes here). I got recommendations for several manufacturers, but all of them seem to compete in the same price (quality?) range as 4/7s and ZL, none can match the moonlight (my favorite mode), hundreds of hours runtime, and they only offer 1 yr warranties. Looks like I'm stuck carrying a back-up (but probably would no matter what l light had anyway).

I can certainly understand those that have multiple issue, however... I'd still be a happy customer if customer service quickly dealt with one... maybe two issues, but a third issue would turn me away for good. I'm just a noob though, time will tell. (In the meantime, if anyone can recommend a uber-quality single-AA for me....)

 

[roadkill1109]

You got a point there Tommygun45!

But there should be a balance between quality and mass market appeal. For sure, people in the know will dish out the extra cash for quality-made products, that's why high-end lights exist because they cater to those who are willing to put out the money for their products.

It's good that forums like these exist to inform consumers especially potential customers about the different flashlights out there and the manufacturers. If you google almost any light by brand and model, almost always, topics from our forum come up in the top ten results.

Bottomline, we as consumers want the best "bang for buck" of our choosing. And being vigilant makes us consumers win in the end.

 

[roadkill1109]

if anyone can recommend a uber-quality single-AA for me....)

Did you try the Sunwayman V10A? Though i've never run mine with an AA battery, the lowest low setting is lower than the lowest the Quark will go. You can stare at the XML directly and not impair your night-adjusted eyes. It's THAT low. Now the Quark in moonlight seems too bright to use at night!

Hahah, but dont get me wrong, i love my two EDC's (Quark and SWM)

 

[duro]

s could ever stand to watch them bounce down the driveway. I'm totally fine with watching a $50 or $60 light bounce on the ground but I couldn't bear the thought of dropping some $500 custom light or even using it to do tasks like working on the truck or crawling through the attic.

Use your lights. They're tools. I wouldn't worry too much about the aesthetics. Enjoy them...After all, life isn't permanent.

 

[roadkill1109]

Use your lights. They're tools. I wouldn't worry too much about the aesthetics. Enjoy them...After all, life isn't permanent.

Its nice to take them out and use them in situations that wouldnt cause bodily harm to the light, but for those rare special limited edition lights, sometimes you'd be just so happy to own one and probably have them in a display case somewhere.

 

[reppans]

Did you try the Sunwayman V10A? Though i've never run mine with an AA battery, the lowest low setting is lower than the lowest the Quark will go. You can stare at the XML directly and not impair your night-adjusted eyes. It's THAT low. Now the Quark in moonlight seems too bright to use at night!

Hahah, but dont get me wrong, i love my two EDC's (Quark and SWM)

Yes it was recommended on the other thread and I've look at it and really like the idea of the variable ring. However, the ring seems to kill the light's efficiency - the V10A is rated at 1 lumen for only 40 hrs.... while the M10A is rated for 4 lumens at 100 hours! (too bright though). My S2 Quark is rated at 0.4 lumens for 422 hours.

Same with Jetbeam's magnetic ring system vs their own non-ring lights.

 

[egrep]

Duro,

How many $500 lights do you own? How many do you carry and 'use'? How many times have you dropped one of these? I'm seriously curious. Your attitude is admirable, I just want to be able to believe you.

Use your lights. They're tools. I wouldn't worry too much about the aesthetics. Enjoy them...After all, life isn't permanent.

 

[Racer]

I originally gave my dad a $15 Ultrafire single mode R5 and he EDC'd it for a year. When I finally upgraded him to a BA10 he didn't want the Jetbeam at first. He had worn the anodizing off the cheap one almost completely and there were a couple nice chunks taken out of the bezel, and the thing still worked fine. He wasn't asking for a new light. I've given at least a dozen of these cheap lights away - it's what I start my non flashlight friends on for an AA light - and to my knowledge not one has failed on its owner yet.

So then what I expect out of a $60 light is to be superior to that $15 light in every way possible. I'd also like it to be superior to the $40 light as well. Not just better or more efficient circuitry or better in a certain way, but fundamentally better. That seems like a reasonable expectation to me. That if I pay more, I get more. That if I pay for quality then I get quality. It would seem that this is not always the case (at least for the "mid-range" lights), and that's where it pays to do the research.

I ended up buying all DeWalt power tools because every single other brand I bought failed me miserably. So I'll do the same with flashlights if I have to. Whatever it takes to get dependable tools. But so far my favorite, most-carried and all around favorite light to abuse is a $20 Microstream. And if I kill it there's absolutely no guilt or remorse. I still drool over all those pimped out custom titanium lights, and some day my addiction will hit that level, but I'm not sure I'm ever going to convince myself it's something I actually *need*. Nor will I have to.

 

[roadkill1109]

Yes it was recommended on the other thread and I've look at it and really like the idea of the variable ring. However, the ring seems to kill the light's efficiency - the V10A is rated at 1 lumen for only 40 hrs.... while the M10A is rated for 4 lumens at 100 hours! (too bright though). My S2 Quark is rated at 0.4 lumens for 422 hours. Same with Jetbeam's magnetic ring system vs their own non-ring lights.

I see, so you'd really be running the light that long in moonlight? hmm...

 

[leon2245]

^(racer) I somehow often get a higher level of satisfaction from value priced gear, when it performs & lasts. Sometimes budget stuff will surprise you, so I try not to be too biased based on price alone.

& true every manufacturer can make a bad egg, though it's different when there's (something you consider to be) a flaw that even the maker acknowledges will be the norm. I remember one exchange between a member here & the manufacturer, where the poster was complaining about a twisty head that became wobbly within a month. Four sevens generously offered his money back on it, & actually recommended he take them up on that offer instead of exchanging it, because they advised him that its replacement might very well exhibit the same behavior. You might roll the dice with every purchase to some extent, but once I heard that from a company rep, I didn't like the sound of those odds since I hate wobbly heads, & there are $20 lights that are somehow rock solid in that regard. But I appreciate his honesty & having made it right with the customer so much that if they ever happen to make an AA per my meager criteria, I would definitely take a chance... just not on a twisty. In sticking with the manufacturer's own advice.