Why the dislike for LED LENSER?

[nbp]

I can't see anything biased about the very reasoned reply that Fireclaw gave in post #7

Indeed. This has been one of the most objective, civilized discussions on the Lensers I have seen in a long time. I have found it an excellent read, and when the question pops up about Lensers in the future (and it WILL), I will likely link this thread. The points stated, particularly in that post by Fireclaw, were spot on and well explained.

 

[greenlight]

I have the BMW lenser single AAA clickie light which I bought here from a group buy:

It doesn't have a lanyard attachment, but other than that it is a great little light with a very useful and tight spot beam and a sensitive forward clickie that is comfortable to use.

What's not to love about this flashlight?

 

[greenlight]

.....

 

[my#1hobby]

I have an LED Lenser P7 that I got on Amazon for $35 and I think it's a great little light, It packs a lot of power for a 4x AAA light. I use eneloops in it and it seems to hold its brightness for a long time, but on alkalines it does drop in brightness pretty quick. It's just as bright as my Stinger 180 lumen C4 LED too.

 

[easilyled]

I have the BMW lenser single AAA clickie light which I bought here from a group buy:
It doesn't have a lanyard attachment, but other than that it is a great little light with a very useful and tight spot beam and a sensitive forward clickie that is comfortable to use.

What's not to love about this flashlight?

Just about everything that Fireclaw18 pointed out in post #7.

From your picture it doesn't appear to be able to be attached to a keychain and its not tailstanding.
Its probably not waterproof, not regulated, not HAIII and probably only has a plastic optic or lens.

However apart from that, I'm sure its absolutely outstanding.

 

[utlgoa]

Led Lenser will always be " The eight hundred pound gorilla in the room"

 

[Kilted]

Check out;
http://www.zweibrueder.com/ENG/technologie/technologie_index.php?id=tec_design

Testing:
http://www.zweibrueder.com/ENG/technologie/pruefverfahren.php?id=quali_pruef

Candela, lumen, lux;
http://www.zweibrueder.com/ENG/technologie/candela.php?id=led_candela

They are regulated just not the way you expect
http://www.zweibrueder.com/ENG/technologie/smart.php?id=smart

Regulation Demo1
http://www.zweibrueder.com/ENG/technologie/slt_demo.php

Regulation Demo2
http://www.zweibrueder.com/ENG/technologie/m7_demo.php

As for those who complain about the lack of regulation, seems you got a short memory, many quality lights of the past were direct drive, I have a Barbolight dive light that is direct drive.

 

[Fireclaw18]

...


As for those who complain about the lack of regulation, seems you got a short memory, many quality lights of the past were direct drive, I have a Barbolight dive light that is direct drive.

Key words: "of the past".

Nowadays, if I'm going to spend $50 or more on a light I expect it to have regulation and a variety of modes. After having experienced lights with good regulation and awesome UIs such as Zebralight and Jetbeam or even Spark and Thrunite, going back to a light with one mode and no regulation is unacceptable. Furthermore, when I buy a quality light I expect it to have a great UI that allows me to easily access the modes I want. "High --> med --> blinky" might be expected for a $10 budget light, but is simply unacceptable on a light costing $50 or $100.

The only kind of light I'd consider running unregulated would be something going all out for max power like an Elektrolumens Big Bruiser. LED Lensers with their old emitters, plastic pills, and low amp draws definitely don't fall into that category.

 

[enomosiki]

As for those who complain about the lack of regulation, seems you got a short memory, many quality lights of the past were direct drive, I have a Barbolight dive light that is direct drive.

"Many quality lights of the past were direct drive" because sufficient technology did not exist back then.

Twenty to thirty years ago, when direct-drive incandescent flashlights were dominant, necessary electronics that could fit inside a flashlight did not exist. Nowadays, we have such things that are smaller than a coin and dirt cheap.

The point here is that, for what LED Lenser prices its products, they do not deliver comparable features or performance when pitted against other flashlights that can be found for cheaper.

Every time I come upon the flashlight section in any hardware stores and spot LED Lenser products, I can't help but to shake my head at the price tag.

 

[rambo180]

Indeed. This has been one of the most objective, civilized discussions on the Lensers I have seen in a long time. I have found it an excellent read

+1 Interesting, informative and enjoyable.

 

[jupello]

Actually the discussion IS pretty biased.
-When they say that most Led Lensers have have no regulation, they are talking about the OLD models.
-When they say that all the regulated Led Lensers have just high-med-blinky modes similar to the DX cheapies, they are lieing.
-Then they compare the optic material to reflector and lens materials.. like comparing apples to oranges.
-No support for Lithium-ion batteries? That's a lie too. Just choose a Led Lenser model that do support them, if that's what you want.
..and so on and so on.. I don't know why I even bother replying to these anymore..

 

[Fireclaw18]

Actually the discussion IS pretty biased.
-When they say that most Led Lensers have have no regulation, they are talking about the OLD models.
-When they say that all the regulated Led Lensers have just high-med-blinky modes similar to the DX cheapies, they are lieing.
-Then they compare the optic material to reflector and lens materials.. like comparing apples to oranges.
-No support for Lithium-ion batteries? That's a lie too. Just choose a Led Lenser model that do support them, if that's what you want.
..and so on and so on.. I don't know why I even bother replying to these anymore..

Re: lack of regulation:
I just checked on the LED Lenser website for their list of current models. I assumed that all lights with single modes had no regulation and all lights with multiple brightness have regulation. I counted 9 regulated models and 8 unregulated models. They also have 6 current keychain lights (none of which are regulated) and 6 current large heavy duty lights (all of which appear to be regulated). Result is about an even split, with just very slightly more regulated lights.

My own experience is with the LED Lenser P5, which is listed on their website as one of their current models. Despite costing over $50, it has just one mode and no regulation. The P5's lack of key features make it look very overpriced when I compare it to other high-end lights.

I know that some of the earlier (from a year or two ago) LED Lensers with regulation just had high-med-blinky. I don't have an up-to-date regulated model so can't confirm whether they have improved on that. However, I can confirm that their lights are distinctly lacking in some modes desired on EDC lights. They don't have a low mode or moonlight mode. On some models the lowest they go is 30 lumens. This seems far inferior to something like a Jetbeam RRT-01 that can go from nothing to 550+ lumens and anything in between.

Re: Plastic reflector material:
Plastic is inferior for some uses because it's softer than glass and more likely to scratch. It also can be less efficient than high quality coated glass in transmitting light. On the other hand, LED Lenser optics are generally of excellent quality due to their unique zooming mechanism and carefully engineered optics. Frankly, if I could get an LED Lenser's zooming optics as part of a Jetbeam or Zebralight I'd jump on it and would be perfectly happy with the plastic optics.

Re: Support for lithium-ion batteries: For my EDC light, I want a pocket rocket that runs on 16340 or 14500 and gets substantially brighter performance on them than on alkaline cells. LED Lenser makes ZERO models that do this. When I put a 14500 in my Sunwayman I get 3x the light output as on regular AA. Try the same in an LED Lenser and the light won't run at all.

The only LED Lenser models that support li-ion batteries are their line of rechargeable lights that have an "r" at the end of their model numbers. These lights give the same light output as their non-rechargeable versions running on alkalines. They run longer... not brighter. This is unacceptable to me. Why should I settle for 100 lumens or 150 lumens with an LED Lenser when I can get 550 lumens from a smaller and more compact Jetbeam that has better controls?

 

[LEDninja]

The LED Lenser is a German company. CPF is an American website.

LED Lenser have terrible distribution in North America. Used to be sold through Coast Cutlery. "Would you like a flashlight with your knife and fork set sir/madam? Just in case there is a power failure while you dine." They are doing their own distribution now but they are not readily available - at least not all models.

Their early models use weird batteries. Meaning very expensive disposable flashlights when people can not find replacement batteries.

Their early models are not waterproof.

Their specs are bad especially for runtime. Worse than DX or fleabay on that front.

They do not have regulation circuits. They get dimmer and dimmer and dimmer. Their newer models that have regulation circuits are not sold in North America.

Once a company got a bad reputation it takes a long time to convince people they have changed their ways.

 

[Mar]

I dislike them so much that I had two which I give as a gift. Now I need to order another for myself and you can get them for a decent price.

 

[M@elstrom]

double post

 

[M@elstrom]

No support for li-ion batteries. A AA-sized LED Lenser only runs on AA.... it won't take 14500, etc. Not much of an issue for a typical user, but it is a big issue for flashlight enthusiasts found on these forums.

What about the P5R? it uses a 14500 Li-Ion cell :thumbsup:

I'd own an LED Lenser if the opportunity arose but I'm not fond of many of their battery configurations and would definitely have to modify at least some small aspect of the light to remedy this...

Key words: "of the past".

Nowadays, if I'm going to spend $50 or more on a light I expect it to have regulation and a variety of modes. After having experienced lights with good regulation and awesome UIs such as Zebralight and Jetbeam or even Spark and Thrunite, going back to a light with one mode and no regulation is unacceptable.

Some people still approve of such a simplistic design, I believe it's called the "KISS principle" the more technology (and features) packed into a device the more opportunity for something to go drastically wrong causing a malfunction

 

[Fireclaw18]

What about the P5R? it uses a 14500 Li-Ion cell :thumbsup:

Output is still far too low: 200 lumens on a 14500? Yuck! That's what I expect to see on a regular AA. I'm spoiled by XP-G and XM-L lights and expect to see 450+ lumens when I put in a 14500.

Some people still approve of such a simplistic design, I believe it's called the "KISS principle" the more technology (and features) packed into a device the more opportunity for something to go drastically wrong causing a malfunction

And yet despite having extremely simple construction, often with just one mode and no regulation, LED Lensers are not known for their durability. I've had a switch break in a lenser. Other people in this thread have had Lenser's break: either their switches or the light ceasing to function when dropped a short distance. And of course, anyone who has tried EDCing an LED Lenser for even a short time knows how awful the Type II anodize looks after a couple months in the pocket. EDC a Fenix for 6 months and it looks brand new. EDC a Lenser for the same period of time and it looks like its been through a war. For the price they charge LED Lenser should upgrade to Type III hard anodize.

 

[TwitchALot]

Don't forget that lack of regulation is a much bigger issue here. Running on direct drive means that on NiMH, Lensers will run dim because the voltage isn't there. On Lithium (AA), they're overdriving the LED and reducing its lifespan by putting too much voltage. Li-Ion will blow it. Essentially, their non-regulated models are BEST suited for Alkalines, which are BEST suited for low current applications - which their lights are not.

But even so, with a beam profile like the Coast lights I've seen, I've be more tempted to throw them at the wall until they break. But then, I'm a certified flashaholic.

 

[Blitzwing]

They are the "great" light that folks who don't know about flashlights buy.... Often well overpriced in stores here in Australia, too.

 

[bkumanski]

Don't forget that lack of regulation is a much bigger issue here. Running on direct drive means that on NiMH, Lensers will run dim because the voltage isn't there. On Lithium (AA), they're overdriving the LED and reducing its lifespan by putting too much voltage. Li-Ion will blow it. Essentially, their non-regulated models are BEST suited for Alkalines, which are BEST suited for low current applications - which their lights are not.

But even so, with a beam profile like the Coast lights I've seen, I've be more tempted to throw them at the wall until they break. But then, I'm a certified flashaholic.

Correct me if I am mistaken, but don't NiMh batteries run higher voltage under load than alkalines? My experience with these DD 3 and 4 cell lights has been much brighter performance with NiMh than alkalines because of the voltage sag of alkalines. In addition, regulation isn't really needed with this battery type as the battery itself is quasi regulated. I like DD lights for their simplicity, but I understand the cost issue. In theory, DD lights should be less expensive, not more.