ZebraLight SC600 MkII

[kwak]

aha now i understand what you're saying. what 18650 are you using btw? perhaps it sags too much. try a sanyo 2600, flatter discharge curve. a cell that sags too much will prematurely stepdown on zebralights



that's selfbuilt's graph for the sc52 using 14500. it only steps down to MED when the cell is down to less 10%

I have around 20 18650 cells, from rubbish surefire through to non protected 3400mAh Panasonics.

This is not a battery problem it's a function of the torch.

To copy the description from the ZL site

Automatically stepping down from High to Medium, and from Medium to Low when battery capacity is low

So depending on the battery voltage the torch automatically steps down to 90Lm then 3Lm

I understood your point.

Are these real time measurements or it's just an example?

No sorry Nicola they were just figures i used as an example.
From the ZL site the torch will step down from high to medium (500Lm to 90Lm) then medium to low (90Lm to 3Lm).

If that was the case, I would see your point, but that's not the case. Not for me. I use Xtar 3100mah 18650 - basically, Panasonic 3100 18650 cells. I have never sat there and let my light stay at 500 lumen until it drains, I just wouldn't do that with this light, I would use a light with more metal in there for that, like a 2x 18650 light- but that's besides the point. I get just about the same amount on 500 lumens as I would if it didn't step down because I never run the batts that low. I would probably get closer to 1.7 hours or more.. either way. It wouldn't be 20 minutes that's for damn sure.

here's what they say on ZL-

.
So maybe you should get better batteries? That's if you are using crummy ones I guess.

If that works for you then good on ya.

For me personally i do NOT want a auto step down.


Those figures were just picked at random to better show what i mean.
I will time the step down when i get some free time and see what the actual time is.

The actual figure is irrelevant for me and my uses though as the cut-off voltages are 2.7v on both my non step down MKI and my step down MKII.

As i said above i have AW, Redilast, Panasonic non protected in capacities from 2200mAh through to 3400mAh the problem is NOT my batteries.
I just prefer a torch without a auto step down, simple.

 

[fnj]

Those figures were just picked at random to better show what i mean.

Let me get this straight. So you just completely made up your stepdown numbers, passed them off as real, and complain about the design based on those bogus numbers?

 

[PocketBeam]

Lets table the step down discussion until actual measurements are done, ok? Table.. measurements, pun intended.

 

[Byggeren]

Remember that running the light on high is putting a load on the battery, it will at some point reach the set low voltage limit. At this point you can have the flash light turn completely off, which is the easy thing to do, or you can let the electronics step down to a lower level and still get some more usable light out of the battery without destroying it. If nothing else, it's enough to find the back up battery. This does not necessary mean you get less runtime on high. I know I prefer the step down rather than complete darkness, it's a great feature!

 

[Nicola]

No sorry Nicola they were just figures i used as an example.

So what I mean is:

Now I'm very interested to see a full runtime review because a judgment of this feature can vary depending on WHEN the step down occurs.

Maybe you could still accept a step down feature if it allows you to still run 90% of the comparable no-step-down max-output runtime,
while most people could agree that a step down after only 40% of the no-step-down max-output runtime is quite limiting your usage freedom...

Imho.

 

[kwak]

Let me get this straight. So you just completely made up your stepdown numbers, passed them off as real, and complain about the design based on those bogus numbers?

You indeed do NOT have it straight, in any way what-so-ever.

The 90 mins was used by Byggeren as an example, i then expanded on his example to better put across the point i was trying to make.

No one has tried to deceive anyone in any way what-so-ever.
To the point where when questioned i was clear as daylight about my response.


If you did reread the thread then you will see that my complaint was not registered as a complaint.
I put in my list of negatives "Auto step down" that's NOT a "complaint about the design" it's a negative regarding a feature.


If you do not like my review fair enough, compared to many others reviews on here it's pretty poor.
Pics are fuzzy, beam shots are terrible, review is quick, i know that.
Still it's all i have so either take something from it, or ignore it, your choice.


I wrote my quick review because that's all i've had time to do.
I wrote MY thoughts and MY opinions, obviously other peoples opinions will differ.
Again fair enough, i can't very well write other peoples opinions though can i




Currently running the step down test, i'll see how quickly the new light steps down and cuts-off.
I'm running my MKIa SC600 next to it so it'll be a interesting test i think.

 

[kwak]

So what I mean is:

Now I'm very interested to see a full runtime review because a judgment of this feature can vary depending on WHEN the step down occurs.

Maybe you could still accept a step down feature if it allows you to still run 90% of the comparable no-step-down max-output runtime,
while most people could agree that a step down after only 40% of the no-step-down max-output runtime is quite limiting your usage freedom...

Imho.

The kids are in bed, i've got the MKIa and the MKII lined up next to each other with my phone videoing both beam shots.
I'll run both till the cut-off kicks in.

I haven't used my 3400mAh as i have a early start tomorrow and it's already 01:45 here.
But i have 2 x Redilast 2200mAh cells, both at 4.09v, both are good cells in good condition so any drop won't be as a result of a poor quality battery.

 

[PocketBeam]

I liked the review. After you do rundown/stepdown test, could you do some throw beamshots comparing mk I to mk II? It would be nice to see what you mean by the mk II throws farther.

 

[WmArnold1]

Currently running the step down test, i'll see how quickly the new light steps down and cuts-off.
I'm running my MKIa SC600 next to it so it'll be a interesting test i think.

YES, this will be a very interesting test Kwak - thanks in advance!!! For comparison; my Mk-1b steps-down from H1 to M1 after about 2 hours and spends more than an hour in M1 before stepping-down again, into L1. (fwiw, I'm using 3100 mAh NCR 18650A's) As I said above, I've never been patient enough to endure the time required to reach the shut-down point, but I guesstimate that it's about 2 hours after stepping-down from M1 into L1. Until you weigh-in with your Mk-II results; I think that's a fair predictor of what to expect.

So; I hope you're prepared to babysit your test for a total of five hours (give-or-take) before reaching total darkness. And, that's if your light wasn't left on H2, M2, or L2, because; if you accidently do that, the time to darkness will be a *lot* longer. Btw, you should probably use a fan for the first 2 hours; my Mk-Ib gets pretty hot just sitting without a breeze.. ;-)

 

[TEEJ]

Its ~ 900 L to start (not 500 L unless you are going for a softer starting drive amperage to begin with, etc...)....and drops from there one level out of ~ 11 IIRC.

Its not just on at 900 L, and then going dark....which was the concern.

ALL lights with a turbo mode and/or heat management have the ability to be extra bright for a while if needed, like a car with nitrous injection, etc.

For example: You can have a regulated light with no heat management system, as its driven softly enough that its high is like another light's medium...and then not have to drop to medium, as you already started there.

Some prefer a dimmer light that can't get brighter than say 500 L, and some prefer a brighter light that dims down to say 500 L if needed to manage the extra heat from the added brightness.


We each choose the UI/heat management scenario we prefer.

 

[BWX]

Yeah I am really interested to see those results of the step down test. Use a fan though!

 

[michael3]

if someone doesn't like or prefer the step down what is the problem. let them live in peace. I personally like the step down feature and depend on it. but if someone else doesn't then there is nothing wrong with that.

 

[BWX]

if someone doesn't like or prefer the step down what is the problem. let them live in peace. I personally like the step down feature and depend on it. but if someone else doesn't then there is nothing wrong with that.

LOL- No one is saying there is anything wrong with that..

They, (we, I) are arguing, (discussing, talking) about if it really makes any difference at all given the fact the best batteries are used.

 

[sdr]

Why on earth they put that ugly lump on it i don't know, if i could get it coated again i'd grind it straight off.
I don't know of 1 single person that has attached a lanyard to their SC600, rubbish idea.

Actually, I personally love that "lump." If you would care to see what I had to say about it back in December of 2011 you can click here: http://tinyurl.com/Lanyard-Bump and scroll down to my pictorial post -- It's the 3rd one down.

Cheers!

 

[michael3]

it just sounded like from some of the "argument" that some people are making a simple point that they would prefer no step no matter what. that is all I am refering to. that is fine for them. as far as the rest of the debate that is great. good info, good things to know for everybody.

LOL- No one is saying there is anything wrong with that..

They, (we, I) are arguing, (discussing, talking) about if it really makes any difference at all given the fact the best batteries are used.

 

[kwak]

YES, this will be a very interesting test Kwak - thanks in advance!!! For comparison; my Mk-1b steps-down from H1 to M1 after about 2 hours and spends more than an hour in M1 before stepping-down again, into L1. (fwiw, I'm using 3100 mAh NCR 18650A's) As I said above, I've never been patient enough to endure the time required to reach the shut-down point, but I guesstimate that it's about 2 hours after stepping-down from M1 into L1. Until you weigh-in with your Mk-II results; I think that's a fair predictor of what to expect.

So; I hope you're prepared to babysit your test for a total of five hours (give-or-take) before reaching total darkness. And, that's if your light wasn't left on H2, M2, or L2, because; if you accidently do that, the time to darkness will be a *lot* longer. Btw, you should probably use a fan for the first 2 hours; my Mk-Ib gets pretty hot just sitting without a breeze.. ;-)

I wish i'd read your post before starting

So i lined up the torches so the beams were next to each, set both to 500Lm, set the phone to video mode and kept an eye on the torches.

100 mins the MKI hit it's low voltage cut-out, the head was at 48c
175 mins the MKII stepped down with the head at 32c

Removed the MKI battery after it cut-off and it read 3v
Removed the MKII battery after it stepped down and it read 2.9v

Batteries used were AW 2200mAh both were at 4.09v before starting and both batteries are the same age with the same charge cycles.


So i'll be the first to put my hand up and admit that i jumped the gun with regards to the step down and that in actual use it's not really much of a problem.

I am absolutely stunned at how efficient the MKII is compared to the MKI.
If both head temps were close i would say that maybe there was a problem with the MKI's battery.
But the fact that the MKII's head never went above 32c backs up the results, as it shows me that the torch is running more efficiently and not converting anywhere near as much battery energy into heat.

It also fits with my experience of real world use of the MKI as i get around 100mins when out in the mountains.

In all honesty i'm absolutely stunned, that's close to twice as efficient


I won't edit the "negative points" list as it would stop a lot of the following posts making sense.

But i will say that in real world use the auto step down is NOT that much of a problem.
I would still prefer it stay on 500Lm until it hit the LVC, but with only 0.2v before the LVC kicks in it's still very usable.

Also noticed last night that the MKII has a spring + connection rather than the dot the MKIa has.
MKIa left MKII right

So i won't need to use my little magnets on my flat top batteries any more :thumbsup:


I did try more beam shots, but i just can't seem to get the ISO and exposure to a level where it's close to what i'm seeing with my eyes.
I'll have another go tomorrow night though :thumbsup:

Again, i apologise for jumping the gun on the auto step down, sorry.

 

[kwak]

Its ~ 900 L to start (not 500 L unless you are going for a softer starting drive amperage to begin with, etc...)....and drops from there one level out of ~ 11 IIRC.

Its not just on at 900 L, and then going dark....which was the concern.

ALL lights with a turbo mode and/or heat management have the ability to be extra bright for a while if needed, like a car with nitrous injection, etc.

For example: You can have a regulated light with no heat management system, as its driven softly enough that its high is like another light's medium...and then not have to drop to medium, as you already started there.

Some prefer a dimmer light that can't get brighter than say 500 L, and some prefer a brighter light that dims down to say 500 L if needed to manage the extra heat from the added brightness.


We each choose the UI/heat management scenario we prefer.

I do use the turbo mode and have found it extremely useful on many many occasions, i personally judge a lights output on it's constant output though, as this is what i'll be using the vast vast majority of the time.

It's like buying a car 100% based upon how it feels at 150mph
Sure i will hit 150mph a few times throughout it's life BUT to me it's more important how it feels on B-roads at 50mph or the motorway at 80mph.

 

[BWX]

Wow that is really interesting info!

I wonder how my MKI(b) with the U2 would do in comparison.. I guess there is one way to find out, but I do not have a way to measure the temp accurately. The time alone would be interesting, but couldn't compare directly with your results for obvious reasons. Still would be interesting.

 

[WmArnold1]

Wow that is really interesting info!

I wonder how my MKI(b) with the U2 would do in comparison.. I guess there is one way to find out, but I do not have a way to measure the temp accurately. The time alone would be interesting, but couldn't compare directly with your results for obvious reasons. Still would be interesting.

Note that I posted the results for my Mk-I(b) above, specifically; here and here

What seems most interesting to me up-front, is that Kwak's Mk-II is getting 175 minutes before the first step-down using 2200 mah cells whereas my Mk-I(b) is only getting 130 minutes or so using 3100 mah cells - WOW - I'm sure the Mk-II is brighter too.

 

[WmArnold1]

So i'll be the first to put my hand up and admit that i jumped the gun with regards to the step down and that in actual use it's not really much of a problem.

... I won't edit the "negative points" list as it would stop a lot of the following posts making sense.

But i will say that in real world use the auto step down is NOT that much of a problem.
I would still prefer it stay on 500Lm until it hit the LVC, but with only 0.2v before the LVC kicks in it's still very usable.

I sincerely admire the way you did your own real-world test and published your findings honestly. Kudos Kwak!

But, I still respectfully suggest that you edit your earlier posts, appending a line in RED saying that you reversed your opinion within a later post; #716. (including a link) Editing your earlier posts won't stop the following posts from making sense because they each quoted your original (un-edited) post.

I am absolutely stunned at how efficient the MKII is compared to the MKI.

Me too! Your Mk-II got 175 minutes using 2200 mah cells and my Mk-I(b) only gets 130 minutes with 3100 mah cells - I'm truly envious! Great Job ZL!!!

Someday; please clock the M1 "reserve" run-time following the first step-down. This test doesn't have to start from a full charge; E.g. I'm doing my tests just before I recharge to get an idea how closely my sporadic EDC use gets to said reserve, and, how much run-time there is in M1 before stepping-down into L1. Thanks in advance.