Zebralight SC600Fd III Plus - XHP50

[sam7]

How are these spec possible? I don't see an XHP50 bin that can do the claimed K/lm/CRI simultaneously. http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/C...d-Modules/XLamp/Data-and-Binning/ds-XHP50.pdf

Just got this in my mail.

I thought they were going to come up with some in-depth explanation of the light with the "A cure for tint snobbery" title like when they announced the SC5Fd&c.

 

[AussieRanga]

How are these spec possible? I don't see an XHP50 bin that can do the claimed K/lm/CRI simultaneously. http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/C...d-Modules/XLamp/Data-and-Binning/ds-XHP50.pdf

Do you comprehend the datasheet? You don't expect to find exact numbers that ZL are using, right?

It took me a whole 5 seconds to scroll down to page 3 and see an emitter that is 5000K with MINIMUM CRI of 90 and a MINIMUM output of near 1000L (@85°C) for a H2 grouped emitter. That is from supplying 6V to the emitter with a current of 1400mA which is around 8.5W. Zebralight say their light can draw up to 8A from a cell so I would (obviously) assume it is driven harder than what Cree's datasheet numbers are based on thus leading to higher output than you see.

..so no it is not an impossible combination the folks at ZL have simply plucked out of thin air..

 

[StandardBattery]

It is possible that the best CRI and max lumens don't align though. Still can't wait to see this light because the Mk III HI is already really amazing.

 

[tops2]

I'm going to guess the PLUS' substantially more powerful beam, 1500 compared to 870 lu, will put it in a different class than the H600Fd. This hopefully and especially in terms of potential throw. It would be fantastic if the PLUS turns out to be a floody throwy light.

That's my hope too. But I'm not expecting much more throw though..just hopefully far enough.

Granted its totally different light/optics, but from my (bad) memory, my Armytek Wizard Pro v3 XHP50 at the highest level (the updated spec ~1800 lumens on Armytek's website) doesn't throw that much further than my H600Fd in my opinion. Maybe I need to go out at night again and try again. But I always feel weird going to the park after dark to test out my lights on turbo/high modes.

 

[KeepingItLight]

I always feel weird going to the park after dark to test out my lights on turbo/high modes.

Well, you could always try going to the park during the daytime :ironic:

Realistically, I could see taking a tub full of flashlights (rather than, say, 1 or 2), and opening the CPF web site on your smartphone. That way, you could tell any interested police officers that you're just doing a flashlight comparison for CPF!

Around here, unfortunately, a lot of the parks close at sunset.

 

[TCY]

ZL says they are going to publish the runtimes in 2-3 days.:thumbsup:

 

[snowlover91]

ZL says they are going to publish the runtimes in 2-3 days.:thumbsup:

Thanks for the heads up! You know you have it bad when you preorder a $100 flashlight with no idea what the runtimes are like lol. I can't wait for these to start shipping!

 

[TCY]

Thanks for the heads up! You know you have it bad when you preorder a $100 flashlight with no idea what the runtimes are like lol. I can't wait for these to start shipping!

ZL confirmed that they start shipping on the 24th, and US orders one week after that.

Only 3 weeks left:naughty:

 

[Swede74]

ZL says they are going to publish the runtimes in 2-3 days.:thumbsup:

Time's... no, let me start over: Times're up


Light Output (runtimes)

• High: H1 1500 Lm (PID, approx. 2.3 hr) or H2 666 Lm (PID, approx. 2.7 hrs) / 429 Lm (PID, approx. 2.9 hrs) / 270 Lm (4.1 hrs)
• Medium: M1 100 Lm (12.5 hrs) or M2 34 Lm (36 hrs) / 19 Lm (2.6 days) / 10.4 Lm (4.6 days)
• Low: L1 2.9 Lm (15.5 days) or L2 0.76 Lm (1.9 months) / 0.37 Lm (2.7 months) / 0.18 Lm (4 months)
• Beacon Strobe Mode: 0.2Hz Beacon at Low / 0.2Hz Beacon at H1 / 4Hz Strobe at H1 / 19Hz Strobe at H1
• Light output are ANSI out the front (OTF) values. Runtimes tested (and parasitic drain estimated) using Sanyo NCR18650GA batteries. Runtimes of the three PID controlled levels (1500, 666 and 429 Lumen) vary greatly with ambient temperature and air circulation.

SC600Fd Mk III plus runtimes

 

[TCY]

Time's... no, let me start over: Times're up


Light Output (runtimes)

• High: H1 1500 Lm (PID, approx. 2.3 hr) or H2 666 Lm (PID, approx. 2.7 hrs) / 429 Lm (PID, approx. 2.9 hrs) / 270 Lm (4.1 hrs)
• Medium: M1 100 Lm (12.5 hrs) or M2 34 Lm (36 hrs) / 19 Lm (2.6 days) / 10.4 Lm (4.6 days)
• Low: L1 2.9 Lm (15.5 days) or L2 0.76 Lm (1.9 months) / 0.37 Lm (2.7 months) / 0.18 Lm (4 months)
• Beacon Strobe Mode: 0.2Hz Beacon at Low / 0.2Hz Beacon at H1 / 4Hz Strobe at H1 / 19Hz Strobe at H1
• Light output are ANSI out the front (OTF) values. Runtimes tested (and parasitic drain estimated) using Sanyo NCR18650GA batteries. Runtimes of the three PID controlled levels (1500, 666 and 429 Lumen) vary greatly with ambient temperature and air circulation.

SC600Fd Mk III plus runtimes

Thanks for the update, ZL finally beats their schedule this one time!

Compared to HI, runtimes for H2 levels are almost 50% lower. (34lm for 36 hrs vs. 28lm for 73 hrs on HI, 10.4lm for 4.6 days vs. 10lm for 8 days on HI)

Surprisingly runtime for the lowest low (0.18) is very impressive, 4 months sounds too good to be ture when compared to HI's mere 0.05lm at 5.1 months. L1 looks fine, not a whole lot of efficiency drop.

And I assume that they are using VERY aggressive PID on H1 to get that 2.3 hrs runtime. Or efficiency is simply out of this world? I have to ask them. H2 levels' runtime seem on par with HI's.

Compared to Armytek Wizard Pro v3, Plus's runtime seems A LOT better on H1, but a bit inferior on M2 (34lm for 36 hrs vs. 28lm for 50hrs on Wizard) and lowest low. (0.18 for 4months/122 days vs. 0.14 for 200 days on Wizard)

I was kinda expecting an efficiency drop of ~10-20% across the board because of the high CRI, and was surprised that only medium levels took a major hit. Dunno if I like this, I use H1 on my SC62W a lot. 2.3 hours with PID on H1 is a pleasant surprise though.

Bottom line: not exactly your SHTF zombie apocalypse survival flashlight with ultra long runtimes. For your normal, high CRI appreciated daily usage? Totally fine.

 

[twistedraven]

It wouldn't surprise me if the XHP-50 was the slightly more efficient LED, but having high cri will lose quite a bit of efficiency as well.

If only Zebralight found a lens design that would allow this light to be used without the diffuser.

 

[mico]

Whilst pleased that I can finally switch between ~4hr runtime and ~12hr runtime without having to reprogram (having effectively brought the lowest H2 down to M1), I am hoping that M2 34 Lm (36 hrs) has a typo... somewhere.

I guess programmed with 1500/270/100/19/2.9/0.18 it might do just fine though, and the runtimes are reasonable.

 

[Strintguy]

Only thing I'm questioning is the lack of the very-useful lumen range from 34-100?

 

[lampeDépêche]

I think you learn a lot about the PID effect by figuring out the basic efficiency of the emitter-battery combination, and then looking at the times for the highest outputs.

First, run some very rough numbers for the mid-range outputs x times, to see how many lumen-hours this emitter and battery combo is generally capable of:

100 x 12.5 = 1250 lumen-hours
34 x 36 = 1224 lumen-hours
19 x 2.6 days x 24 hrs = 1185 lumen-hours
10.4 x 4.6 days x 24 hrs = 1148

There will be some drop-off in efficiency on the low-end and the high-end, but the basic picture is pretty clear: this emitter-battery combo puts out around 1200 lumen-hours in its most efficient band.

Use that figure to calculate a maximum output at each of the high outputs:

1200 lumen-hours/ 1500 lumens = 0.8 hrs
1200 lumen-hours/ 666 lumens = 1.8 hrs
1200 lumen-hours/ 429 lumens = 2.8 hrs
1200 lumen-hours/ 270 lumens = 4.4 hrs

What that tells me is that in the 270 and 429 settings, you really will get that output throughout nearly all of the advertised run-time, without the output being reduced by PID.

But for the top two outputs (i.e. 1500 and 666), most of the advertised run-time is going to be a much lower levels. PID will kick in and throttle it down to something in the 400s or so for the vast majority of the run-time.

• High: H1 1500 Lm (PID, approx. 2.3 hr) or H2 666 Lm (PID, approx. 2.7 hrs) / 429 Lm (PID, approx. 2.9 hrs) / 270 Lm (4.1 hrs)

That's why the times for 1500 and 666 don't look that much shorter than the times for 429: they are going to be putting out 429 (more or less) for most of the period, and putting out their top lumens only briefly at the beginning.

 

[snowlover91]

Keep in mind the PID will be highly variable and environment dependent. When used in a cold environment or with strong air circulation (wind for example) it will likely stay at or near the max output and significantly reduce runtime while staying at the max brightness. My SC63w indoors on H1 will throttle in about 30-45 seconds but if I take it outdoors on a cool/cold or windy day it stays at max brightness for several minutes without heating up.

 

[lampeDépêche]

Keep in mind the PID will be highly variable and environment dependent....

Totally agree, snowlover91. It will also change if you turn on the light for brief-ish periods and then turn it off again. If you used it on H1 for one-minute stretches, separated by periods long enough for it to fully cool, then you would get the full 1500 output the whole time you used it (because the PID would never kick in).
So you wouldn't get 2.3 hours worth of one-minute bursts, but you'd probably get 40-45 minutes worth of them. (48 minutes by my back-of-the-envelope calculations above, but the efficiency is probably dropping off a bit towards the upper end of the output).

 

[lampeDépêche]

So what I really want to do?

Get one of these, pop out the frosted lens, and put in a clear lens.

Sure, the beam will have artifacts, and be ugly on white walls.

But in the field? In the forest? In the dark? Will it really be that bad? That noticeable?

No way to know without trying. (Especially because one person's "no way!" is another person's "no big deal.")

What we *do* know is that the throw will go a *lot* higher, and the lumens will hop up a bit too.

People have measured the SC600 Mk III Hi at around 19k lux, at the top lumen of 1100 or so. This would probably get up over 25k with a clear lens.

Any of you that have a lot of money and a spare clear lens--could you get on that for me? Thx!

 

[StandardBattery]

So what I really want to do?

Get one of these, pop out the frosted lens, and put in a clear lens.

Sure, the beam will have artifacts, and be ugly on white walls.

But in the field? In the forest? In the dark? Will it really be that bad? That noticeable?

No way to know without trying. (Especially because one person's "no way!" is another person's "no big deal.")

What we *do* know is that the throw will go a *lot* higher, and the lumens will hop up a bit too.

People have measured the SC600 Mk III Hi at around 19k lux, at the top lumen of 1100 or so. This would probably get up over 25k with a clear lens.

Any of you that have a lot of money and a spare clear lens--could you get on that for me? Thx!

I'm not so sure. It may not be able to even make 25K at all especially with a Zebralight reflector. The XHP50 is not available in HI configuration and is a multi LED on a single die so it's going to be more floody from the beginning no matter what. So I think it would take more than replacing the frosted lens to make it a thrower capable of 25K cd.

 

[roger-roger]

So what I really want to do?

Get one of these, pop out the frosted lens, and put in a clear lens.

Sure, the beam will have artifacts, and be ugly on white walls.

But in the field? In the forest? In the dark? Will it really be that bad? That noticeable?

No way to know without trying. (Especially because one person's "no way!" is another person's "no big deal.")

What we *do* know is that the throw will go a *lot* higher, and the lumens will hop up a bit too.

People have measured the SC600 Mk III Hi at around 19k lux, at the top lumen of 1100 or so. This would probably get up over 25k with a clear lens.

Any of you that have a lot of money and a spare clear lens--could you get on that for me? Thx!

Cool project. Aren't the artifacts of a clear lensed XHP 50 flashlight already a known factor, what with the Olight 50 and Fenix TK35UE etc? The high CRI feature of the Plus attracts an audience with higher standards in mind, so there's that.

 

[TCY]

I'm not so sure. It may not be able to even make 25K at all especially with a Zebralight reflector. The XHP50 is not available in HI configuration and is a multi LED on a single die so it's going to be more floody from the beginning no matter what. So I think it would take more than replacing the frosted lens to make it a thrower capable of 25K cd.

This.