Well...I got my SF D3......Now What?

I got my D3 in the mail today.

Just a warning, this will be a looong post.

Thanks to me accidentally stumbling on to this forum, here's what YOU people (especially Sean & his great website, Darrell & his kind attitude, and Brightnorm & his $0.02--great help all!) have cost me in the last week :
<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI> Surefire 6P (black) & P61 LA
<LI> Surefire D3
<LI> Inova X5 (has not arrived yet)
<LI> 2 ARC AAA, 1 white 1 red (has not arrived yet)
[/list]

Disclaimer: I have none of the test equipment, test targets, or terminology down yet...these are merely my VERY subjective opinions!

6P: I love it. The ergonomics are second-to-none, the size is fabulous, and the beam with the P60 LA has a perfectly round hotspot & predictable flood characteristics IMHO. The P61, I think, was an unneccessary purchase. I think the beam is not too noticeably brighter, the hotspot is slightly elliptical (which bugs me a bit) and the only benefit seems to be reduced battery life. However, this is a superb tactical light and will make a great addition to my nightstand....and car...and backpack.

D3: I think I made a tactical error by purchasing this light. IMHO, it's too much like the 6P and not enough of a step up to justify the cost. The hot spot from the P90 LA is quite noticeably elliptical, which bugs me a bit. I also think a light of this power & size should have a pyrex/shockproof bezel instead of lexan. All in all, I'm not impressed....not because it isn't a superb piece of equipment, but because with a 6P in my collection, the D3 is redundant.

What I'm looking for are suggestions; I think maybe an E1E or E2E might be the best light for EDC & as a compliment to the 6P, with the pyrex lenses and more "utility-usable" shape to the beam. I'd perhaps trade my D3 straight up for an E2E if there are any takers!

What would be a good step up as a replacement for the D3? Should I move to the M-series lights? Is an M3 markedly better than an M2?

Plus 3 more stoopid questions:

1. 
   <LI>Can I still get ARC LS seconds? Where do I go to get one? (I know, that's 2 questions)
   <LI>What does HID stand for?
   <LI>Should I wait for Surefire to release their LED lights before I purchase another incandescent?

Grand thanks to all, as usual,

/TCP

Ok, I'll try and help. (Where do I begin?)

Put your D3 up for trade or for sale in the buy,sell,trade part of this forum.

I have an E2 & just got an E1e & think they are unbelieveable. I would recommend an E1e over the E2e right now because it's similar to your 6P in brightness & size. The E2e has a bigger & less intense but perfectly round hotspot & is 60 lumens (not a big difference). If you really like the 6P (and most people do) then I would just get an E1e. Why? Easy, it is very small, only 15 lumens but don't be fooled by numbers, it only looks half as bright as the E2, not 1/4 as bright. It is noticeably brighter than the ARC LS! Also the E1e only needs 1 123 battery & will last 90 minutes on 1 battery & don't forget to get a Beamshaper for the E1e! Use the beamshaper when you want wider, more diffused light & simply remove it when you don't want it. Also, the E series beamshaper lens pops out of the holder and will fit inside you 6P, if you should want to put it in there.

So to sum up, get the E1e, or if you don't think it will be bright enough get the E2e then, but even it is noticeably smaller than your 6P. If you get the E1e or E2e get it from LPS Tactical their prices are good and include shipping.

If you want a surefire LED, then get an E1e or E2e now, then when the upgrade bezels come out (KL-1 Bezel) just replace your current bezel with this and then you don't really need an arc ls. There is also an upgrade bezel coming out for the 6P (KL-3).
They use the same Luxeon LED as what is in the ARC LS. And it is digitally regulated.

ARC LS seconds are sold out.

M3 better than D2, yes but that's a tough one to describe. M3 has slightly brighter lamp assemblies, slighly larger reflector, produce oval beams like your D3.
I would say only get the M3 if you want to run the 225 lumen bulb in it (20 min run time) The 125 lumen bulb is like your P61 just more oval shaped. So you may not even want one. I have the M3 and love it but it depends on if you want one or "need" one.

I would say sell or trade the D3 (for E2e, etc), & if you want brighter light then get the A19 adapter for your 6P, and if you want bright light (like M3T light) get the turbohead for the 6P with A19 you will have basically an M3T! You can use the N2 lamp assembly, very round beam, very tighly focused and you can use the MN15 (125 lu) & MN16 (225 lu) lamps in it just like the M3T does. More info in the Turbohead lookhere

HID=High Intensity Discharge = very bright!

The M2 is a better built 6P, uses the same lamps so it is no brighter than the 6P.

The difference between the P60/P61 and P90/P91 shows up better at longer ranges or when a beamshaper is put on. But I recomend a turbo head for your D3. A KT2-BK or SRTH or if you can find one, a T2.

If you sell the D3 the E2e would be a great purchase. There's a low output lamp assembly due out. It's dimmer than the MN03 but longer runtime. Or the HOLA, about 90 lumens, should be out this year too. Either would differentiate the E2e from the 6P.

Tc Pilot before you consider an arc ls please consider looking at the lambda illuminator mod posted on the led side of the forums. I think that LED museum started the thread... easily twice as bright as a arc ls with picts to prove the output. I don't have an arc ls but i do have an illuminator here in my hand and it is easily the brightest led light i have ever held hands down! I would contact lambda quick if i were you!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sean:
I have an E2 & just got an E1e & think they are unbelieveable. I would recommend an E1e over the E2e right now because it's similar to your 6P in brightness & size... If you want a surefire LED, then get an E1e or E2e now, then when the upgrade bezels come out (KL-1 Bezel) just replace your current bezel with this and then you don't really need an arc ls...

M3 better than D2, yes but that's a tough one to describe. M3 has slightly brighter lamp assemblies, slighly larger reflector, produce oval beams like your D3.

I would say only get the M3 if you want to run the 225 lumen bulb in it (20 min run time)...

The M2 is a better built 6P, uses the same lamps so it is no brighter than the 6P.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sean, you were reading my mind.

I have both an E2 and E1e. The E2 does indeed make a great EDC, as while it's close to the same length as a 6P, it's also more slender, and carries a bit better in the pocket. If you need an EDC in the 60 lumen range, I'd recommend the E2e, as it gives up 5 lumens to the 6P, but you gain 25% more run time.

That being said, I've found myself carrying my E1e more and more, simply because it carries so easily in the pocket. I'm usually wearing jeans, and the E1e tucks pretty nicely into that small watch/lighter pocket.

I owned a 6P for many years, and it's a great light. The only reason I recently got rid of it was to trade it for my E2.

As Sean mentioned, the M2 and M3 are essentially the 6P and D3 on steroids. I own both of those Ms, and they're very nice lights, though a bit more bulky than their non-M counterparts. They're tough lights, and take more abuse then the 6P and D3, which was my only criticism of the 6P. I (or others) kept dropping the darn thing while on the job. The M2 switches back and forth between the two light assemblies, depending on what I need. I usually run the M3 with the HOLA, thinking if I need more light than 60-65 lumens, I'm going to need alot more light.

The only other light I would recommend would be one of the rechargables, such as one of the 8XXs or their SL equivalent. This way, you get alot of good quality bright light, without feeding it 123s on a regular basis.

TCPilot,

Congrats on your recent purchases! I would also put the D3 up for sale in the buy/sell/trade forum. If you are looking for a 3 cell light and want the ultimate, I would purchase the M3. The only drawback to the M3 is that it has a very elliptical beam, and might annoy you of you dont like the P61 LA. If you want a strictly tactical light with a round beam, mabye you should stick with a P60-P61 style light like an M2 which is an excellent choice.

As far as purchasing another light...I think that since you are a pilot, and have to do preflights, you will want a more utility style light such as a E2e. The reason that I suggest an E2e instead of the E1e, is that its higher light output might let you see something "fishy" on the plane that you might not see with the 15 lumens that the E1e would reveal. The E2e has a nice round and rather large hotspot compared to the P60 lamps. Plus you have an ARC in red and white available for in the cockpit nightime use.

BTW everyone, I e-mailed Peter G. this week and he said that there would mabye be a couple of ARC Ls seconds available at the end of this week.

Eric

BTW, you were asking about HID lights. Here is a pic of my UK Light Cannon (left) VS. my Surefire M3 with the 225 lumen HOLA. This as at my minimum exposure setting on my camera. This pic was actually taken in a well-lit room .



Eric

Guys, thanks a TON for the help! I think I'll take Sean's & DonL's advice and put my D3 up for sale, or trade for an E1E.

In addition, I'll await the release of the KL-x LED lamps from SF.

Lightspeed, I'm accustomed to pre-flighting with a stock 2-AA maglite, so I think an E1E would let me see anything that's fishy with the airplane. I've had this airplane for so long that I could find problems in the dark by feel, I think (not that I'll ever try that!).

Thanks again to all for the great advice. Sure glad I found you all!

/TCP

Quickie question....

...How does the E1e compare to the Invoa X5? Subjective opinions are appropriate!

Thanks,

/TCP

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TCPilot:
Quickie question....

...How does the E1e compare to the Invoa X5? Subjective opinions are appropriate!

Thanks,

/TCP<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

E1e will throw light much further, but still great for close up work with a beamshaper. X5 is better suited for close up on close quarter lighting (20' or less). I guess what I am saying is the E1e throws light further and is a little yellowish, The Inova X5 doesn't throw quite as far and has a bluish color, easier on eyes close up.

Also, M2, M3, M4 & M6 all have shock isolated bezels, so if you drop them, the lamp assembly is protected from shock. You can get a black one for your 6P if you should ever feel the need for about $19.00 and other than finish and styling & an extra o-ring under the tailcap you would have an M2. For more on this see this topic:
web page

Sean,

Thanks for the info...I noticed that I could get a shock-isolated bezel for my 6P and I think I will probably do that.

Now, I wonder where I can find the best price on an E1e.....

/TCP

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TCPilot:

Now, I wonder where I can find the best price on an E1e.....

/TCP<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can get the E1e from LPS Tactical or Texas Tactical, they are both very competitive. Give them both a call & get quotes with shipping. I got mine from LPS for $63 delivered. Tell them both you heard about them from here.


Texas Tactical Supply

LPS Tactical

Thanks Sean,

I'm pretty partial to LPS, since they're less than 1/2 an hour drive from here....and their shipping always gets here in ONE day!

/TCP

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TCPilot:
Thanks Sean,

I'm pretty partial to LPS, since they're less than 1/2 an hour drive from here....and their shipping always gets here in ONE day!

/TCP<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can you just drive over there and buy from them directly?

Sadly, no, as they're registered as a "wholesaler." They have no storefront, and their address is actually a postal service.

I think they are not legally allowed to sell to the general public on a walk-in basis.

Bummer.

/TCP

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TCPilot:


D3:....I think I made a tactical error by purchasing this light..... with a 6P in my collection, the D3 is redundant.....
/TCP<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

TCPilot,

I had the same initial reaction to the D3, compared to my 6v Surefires with HOLAS. Then I tried a P91 200 lumen lamp in the D3 and was almost shocked by the flood of light that seemed like a junior but still very impressive version of my M6. Also, the D3 with N2 lamp (105 lumens)in either the T1/2 Turbo or the SRTH LPS Turbo truly blows away the 6P with either turbo. (see thread: " A Major Step Forward....)

Although the M2 and M3's are more impressive lights than the 6P(D2) and 9P(D3) and are certainly tougher, they are only marginally brighter (I think the M2 uses the P60 &P61), at the cost of being considerably more bulky,
heavier and more unwieldy for EDC. The original versions of the 6P and 9P had perfectly round bodys, no clip, and round bezel; small and sleek and easy belt holster EDC, even for the 9P.

I must be one of the few Flashaholics who was actually disappointed with the E2. I found that it didn't make a good everyday utility light because of its short burntime, and it failed (for me) as a tactical type light because of its widely dispersed and consequently not too bright beam. These impressions are of course personal, but for me the E2 was "neither fish nor fowl".

Brightnorm

Well, Brightnorm,

I may eventually regret selling my D3...which I did yesterday, and it's been mailed off already.

I SHOULD have tried the P91. Perhaps I'll revisit this when the Digital SF lights come out. I still think there's a place in my life for a 9V SF light, I just think I want to touch & try some of them in person before ordering. Maybe I'll find a dealer in my area....

Thanks again for the input, you are really helping me learn about this stuff!

/TCP

a19= extender 6p to 9p $14 at lps withfree shipping

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TCPilot:
Sadly, no, as they're registered as a "wholesaler." They have no storefront, and their address is actually a postal service.

I think they are not legally allowed to sell to the general public on a walk-in basis.

Bummer.

/TCP<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Can't you just phone in your order and have them package it to ship & throw it out the back door in your general direction.

Or dress up like the UPS driver.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I must be one of the few Flashaholics who was actually disappointed with the E2. I found that it didn't make a good everyday utility light because of its short burntime, and it failed (for me) as a tactical type light because of its widely dispersed and consequently not too bright beam.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I like the E2 mainly because it's "bright enough" and it's small size.

I agree on the short battery life but hopefully when the MN02 (25 lumen) LA is available, it will be a much better "utility" light at 150 minute burn time.

Your reasoning is also why I like the E1e so much. It is even smaller, still bright enough for any general use, works great with a beamshaper and only uses 1 battery to achieve 90 minute run time.

TCP, like you just said, your best bet is to find someone close buy (or a gun show) that carries Surefire so you can actually pick them up & handle them. It's hard to judge by pictures alone. Good luck, no one within 100 miles of me carries Surefire, and I live right by St. Louis!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TCPilot:
...... I just think I want to touch & try some of them in person before ordering. Maybe I'll find a dealer in my area....

/TCP<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

TCPilot,

If you could do that it would be the best way to go. Years ago I was lucky to find a local dealer who was almost as obsessed with flashlights as we are, and he had a little store with a mouth-watering inventory of lights. In those days he said his biggest customer base was officers (mainly plain clothes for some reason) and stagehands.
That was where I discovered Surefire and he generously allowed me as much time as I wanted to test his fully loaded display models. If you could find someone like that you would be in lumen heaven.

There's only one problem. If you buy a few lights and build a nice business and partly personal relationship, and then discover how much you can save by shopping online it can get quite awkward.

Good hunting

Brightnorm