Surefire LED weaponlights?...

mega_lumens · Aug 5, 2008

I just realized that Surefire has not introduced any LED models to their weapon lights like the M900 series. Is there a reason why Surefire has not introduced LEDs to weaponlights? Is it because Xenons offer better contrast and stuff than LEDs?

depusm12 · Aug 5, 2008

mega_lumens said:
I just realized that Surefire has not introduced any LED models to their weapon lights like the M900 series. Is there a reason why Surefire has not introduced LEDs to weaponlights? Is it because Xenons offer better contrast and stuff than LEDs?

I'm not sure what the model number is but the Scout Light is a E series weapon light

ElGreco · Aug 5, 2008

Surefire did announce a 350 lumen M3 head (forgot what they were calling it) in their latest catalog. I think we'll see the weaponlights and M series upgraded with LEDs (most likely high bin P7s) next shot show.

mega_lumens · Aug 5, 2008

That would be so cool to see how LEDs will be liked on the front line.

Kato · Aug 5, 2008

Keep in mind that LEDs do not emit very much in the IR portion of the spectrum. Since soldiers rely so much on their NVGs, an incandescent lamp module with an IR filter is more useful.

Size15's · Aug 5, 2008

SureFire have started to introduce LEDs to their WeaponLight ranges.

The ScoutLight M600C and X300 are top of the line at the moment.
SureFire have also recently updated several Classic WeaponLights such as shotgun forend WeaponLights with their P60L LED Lamp Assembly.

As noted SureFire have a new bezel in the works - called the "KL9" at the moment it is designed for the Millennium Series - that's M96, M900, M500 and of course the M3 ComnbatLight.

SureFire take their time with these things - with such a large and diverse product range and a large customer base they can't turn on a dime. Not least because they can't keep up with demand for their existing products so finding production time/resource for new products is very difficult.

You're right about 'white' light not outputting any appreciable IR light and so it not being worth putting an IR BeamFilter on them.
SureFire offers two main solutions for this:
1) The M600C-KIT01 additionally features their LU60A incandescent Lamp Module (P60 Lamp Assembly), and their FM63 IR BeamFilter.
2) In addition to an white light LED WeaponLight the operator can also mount an M1 IR illuminator.

nzgunnie · Aug 5, 2008

ElGreco said:
Surefire did announce a 350 lumen M3 head (forgot what they were calling it) in their latest catalog. I think we'll see the weaponlights and M series upgraded with LEDs (most likely high bin P7s) next shot show.

KL9 I think it was.

They seem to be pushing the P60L in their classic weapon lights now.

They've also stopped production of all the millenium and nitrolon pistol lights in favour of the x300.

mega_lumens · Aug 5, 2008

Size15's said:
SureFire have started to introduce LEDs to their WeaponLight ranges.

The ScoutLight M600C and X300 are top of the line at the moment.
SureFire have also recently updated several Classic WeaponLights such as shotgun forend WeaponLights with their P60L LED Lamp Assembly.

As noted SureFire have a new bezel in the works - called the "KL9" at the moment it is designed for the Millennium Series - that's M96, M900, M500 and of course the M3 ComnbatLight.

SureFire take their time with these things - with such a large and diverse product range and a large customer base they can't turn on a dime. Not least because they can't keep up with demand for their existing products so finding production time/resource for new products is very difficult.

You're right about 'white' light not outputting any appreciable IR light and so it not being worth putting an IR BeamFilter on them.
SureFire offers two main solutions for this:
1) The M600C-KIT01 additionally features their LU60A incandescent Lamp Module (P60 Lamp Assembly), and their FM63 IR BeamFilter.
2) In addition to an white light LED WeaponLight the operator can also mount an M1 IR illuminator.

Thanks for the details. I noticed that the M600C, X300, and some other lights use the TIR optics. Is it safe to say that SF relies more on TIR optics than reflectors when it wants to achieve max throw from LEDs? Does this mean that SF does not think that reflectors can achieve max throw from LEDs?

Lightraven · Aug 5, 2008

I had an original E1L with a TIR and now I have an X-300. They are entirely different. The E1L had a bright square with rings circling it. The TIR lens was noticeable.

When I got my X-300, I thought it had a reflector. The new TIR doesn't look like a lens. The beam is also perfect--very bright circle with smooth fall-off.

Whatever SAIC has been up to, it's working.

LukeA · Aug 5, 2008

mega_lumens said:
Thanks for the details. I noticed that the M600C, X300, and some other lights use the TIR optics. Is it safe to say that SF relies more on TIR optics than reflectors when it wants to achieve max throw from LEDs? Does this mean that SF does not think that reflectors can achieve max throw from LEDs?

You can get better throw from a small package with an optic than with a reflector. There's no question about that.

Size15's · Aug 5, 2008

SureFire use TIR optics for three main reasons.
Firstly, they are more efficient than reflectors at gathering the light produced by an LED and forming it into the beam.
Secondly, they can produce larger, more intense main beams from smaller diameter bezels compared to reflectors.
Thirdly, those who have been charting SureFire's development of TIR optics over the years will recognise that they have made some pretty impressive evolutions - whilst is perhaps a bit unfair to say that everything that can be done has been done when it comes to reflector design, I believe there is far more scope for significant advances and breakthroughs in the TIR sector.

Of course SureFire's flagship products will have reflectors - the M6, 10X, The Beast & HellFighters, the UB2 and KL9. And I am certain that SureFire will continue to use reflectors where appropriate in future products too.

JNewell · Aug 5, 2008

The ScoutLight M600C and X300 are top of the line at the moment.

That is the KX2C head?

Size15's · Aug 5, 2008

JNewell said:
That is the KX2C head?

The M600C features the KX2C bezel

blinder switch · Aug 6, 2008

These SureFire E2DLs have worked great on 2 of my Bushmaster carbines.

RyanA · Aug 6, 2008

Size15's said:
The M600C features the KX2C bezel

Al, is there anyway to buy the KX2C alone? I'm not seeing anything on the SF site. Maybe I'm just dreaming?:sigh:

JNewell · Aug 7, 2008

RyanA said:
Al, is there anyway to buy the KX2C alone? I'm not seeing anything on the SF site. Maybe I'm just dreaming?:sigh:

I'm not Al, but earlier this week I saw it for sale separately on both the OpticsHQ and Brightguy websites; other dealers like BatteryJunction probably have it separately as well.

RyanA · Aug 7, 2008

Oh, very nice, Thanks!:thumbsup:

lronchef · Aug 7, 2008

Streamlight's TLR1 is easily the best bang for the buck for a weapon light..for HD especially. It's a good 80L, won't break, is guaranteed for life, sold for about $80 shipped from opticsplanet. Bam, pow! Don't waste money on SF for a HD weaponlight. Also, anything much brighter will seriously compromise your night adjusted vision when you respond to that bump in the night. That 80L will be perfect to seriously disorient the badguy while not causing you to flinch as you carefully clear rooms or take aim.

Isn't that x300 like $200+? You could get the TLR2 for $200 and have a laser and be a superior mall ninja home defender!

Lightraven · Aug 7, 2008

I haven't seen a tactical or weaponlight yet that would "seriously disorient a bad guy"--and I've tried, from car headlights, alley lights, Costco HID, Boxer HID, Surefire M6, etc. By seriously disorient, I mean someone who didn't know which way he was facing, didn't try to escape in the most logical direction and could not move in a straight line. Anybody wanting to attack would only need to attack straight into the light.

A bright light has a secondary value of blinding the threat in the direction of the light so he doesn't know exactly what he's dealing with--multiple people or just one, police, security or citizen, armed with gun, handheld weapon, Rottweiler or unarmed, etc. That uncertainty might make some bad guys hesitate to attack.

Size15's · Aug 8, 2008

Other threads can discuss the relative merits of other brands and compare them to SureFires etc. This thread does not appear to need to head in that direction so lets try to keep it on topic please.

Surefire LED weaponlights?...

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