Quark X AA2 with 123 body

Elemeno · Oct 28, 2011

Hi all, I am looking at getting a Quark X AA2 and using a 123 body for EDC. I have a few questions about this light.

1.) The specs say the head of Quark X AA2 operates at 0.9V ~ 4.2V. Are there actually any AA batteries that can achieve 4.2V in series?
2.) Since the light operates as low as 0.9V, I wouldn't be able to run this with RCR123 in the 123 body, will I? It will over-discharge the RCR cell, right? If I have to run it on primaries only, that will be a deal breaker. I almost just bought this light, and think it would have been a mistake based on that.

I have a few more questions, but if I can't run it on a single RCR123, then there is no point!

GrimCreaper · Oct 28, 2011

I use that same setup pretty much as my 3rd edc when walking home at night. To my knowledge there are no AA's that will hit 4.2 in sequence. I think the closest you can get would be 2 energizer ultimate lithium primaries, i think they have a starting voltage of 1.6 versus 1.5 of standard alkaline. On the other hand, you could use a dummy cell and a single 14500 li-ion rechargeable.

The voltage range just shows what the lowest voltage required is to power up. The lower voltage allows standard alkaline batteries to be thrown in, even with fairly low power, to light up the led.
It can safely use an rcr123, the only thing i would suggest is having a protected one to make sure it doesnt discharge to much. If you think you see a discernable decrease in light output with the battery, yank it out and check it with a multimeter and see where its sitting. Once you hit a certain voltage, the light gos into direct drive on turbo.

Tommygun45 · Oct 28, 2011

Why dont you just get the AA body and run a 14500?

TMCGLASSON36 · Oct 28, 2011

I have the Quark X AA2 and I have tried it with a single 123 body using 123 primaries and it works fine. The output is less on the single 123 but the hot spot is huge. It would be great for EDC.

Elemeno · Oct 28, 2011

Tommygun45 said:
Why dont you just get the AA body and run a 14500?

The output would be full max on the 14500, right? Any guess at what runtime might be? If it works at max with a decent runtime, I will go for this!

TMCGLASSON36 said:
I have the Quark X AA2 and I have tried it with a single 123 body using 123 primaries and it works fine. The output is less on the single 123 but the hot spot is huge. It would be great for EDC.

I was going to get a Thrunite Neutron 1C, but thought the Quark would be equal to it. If the output is noticeably less, I might just go with the 1C for my new EDC.

GrimCreaper said:
I use that same setup pretty much as my 3rd edc when walking home at night. To my knowledge there are no AA's that will hit 4.2 in sequence. I think the closest you can get would be 2 energizer ultimate lithium primaries, i think they have a starting voltage of 1.6 versus 1.5 of standard alkaline. On the other hand, you could use a dummy cell and a single 14500 li-ion rechargeable.

The voltage range just shows what the lowest voltage required is to power up. The lower voltage allows standard alkaline batteries to be thrown in, even with fairly low power, to light up the led.
It can safely use an rcr123, the only thing i would suggest is having a protected one to make sure it doesnt discharge to much. If you think you see a discernable decrease in light output with the battery, yank it out and check it with a multimeter and see where its sitting. Once you hit a certain voltage, the light gos into direct drive on turbo.

I was shooting for a single cell, because I carry in front or back pant pockets. Anything bigger than one cell is just going to be too big. I might be able to get by with a AA body like Tommygun45 suggested, but that depends on the output I will get. I'd like 45 minutes on a single cell at max output, without sacrificing noticeable brightness from what I would get with the Neutron 1C. Using RCR123s in an EDC light and having to worry about how low it gets all the time doesn't sound practical for the way I use my lights. I want to be able to leave it on for awhile if I have a roadside emergency or something, and I want to be able to run it till it dies without worrying about it blowing up!

I really thought it would be great to have a AA compatible head, so I can use that in a pinch or for emergency backup. But, if I am not going to get acceptable results running the head on a single cell for EDC, I am thinking I will just go with something else like the 1C for my new EDC. However, I have come to really like the Quark lights, and the legobility of all the different parts. I am thinking I will end up with a couple Quarks for my BOB and emergency supplies anyway. I've never laid my hands on one, but I really want one (or 3) now! I'm thinking about just getting the Quark X AA2 with the turbo flat tailcap, it looks great!

pjandyho · Oct 29, 2011

The output on 14500 will be the same as RCR123 but you get slightly longer runtime. I personally prefer the AA tube because I could attach an optional deep carry pocket clip and clip it on my rear pocket. Because of the deep pocket clip, it sits much lower in the pocket and it is less obtrusive.

Elemeno · Oct 29, 2011

pjandyho said:
The output on 14500 will be the same as RCR123 but you get slightly longer runtime. I personally prefer the AA tube because I could attach an optional deep carry pocket clip and clip it on my rear pocket. Because of the deep pocket clip, it sits much lower in the pocket and it is less obtrusive.

The Quark X AA2 specs list it as running at max brightness of 280 lumens for 0.8 hours.

AA batteries are 1.5v-1.6v. In series, that would be 3v, right? If the RCR123 is 3.7v and 14500 is 3.6v, how are the RCR123 and 14500 running the light at less output that the 2xAA? Seems like both the rechargeable batteries would run the light at higher voltage, and therefore be brighter, not less bright. Why does this not really make sense to me?

I do like the idea of running a single 14500, but still have the option to switch bodies to run on 2xAA also. But I am sacrificing brightness to do this?

PerttiK · Oct 29, 2011

I'd say you you'd have the same brightness with any battery combination when the voltage is between 3-4.2V.
Under 3V you get less.
AA2 and 123 and even AA heads should have the same circuit, actually they're the same head.
123^2 heads are the only different ones from the rest of them.

GrimCreaper · Oct 29, 2011

Running it with 2xAA will actually increase the time you can use it, but the turbo will be less bright due to decreased voltage. i would not suggest leaving it on turbo anyway as this can potentially hurt the LED over time (based on head damage) Its a very small head with decent, but inadequate heatsinking for constant turbo i believe. IIRC i think the instructions say to only use turbo for about 5 minutes. Ive used it for about 10 minutes constant and the head got pretty hot. High should be more than enough for any roadsides stuff going on.

On 4sevens site im seeing high at 85 lumens for roughly 5 hours. im a bit dubious on the length of that considering 1 AA cell high at 85 lumens will only last 1.5 hours, but i know that with 2xAA high gets me home safe from work when walking. plenty bright with a decent enough hotspot + the ability to more than double your lumens temporarily to 205 if you need to see something farther out.

Derp now i want a second 4 sevens

looking at their newer stuff, they have some decent upgrades since i got mine over a year ago.

Ok, for the single 14500, it will be brighter but 14500's run time wont be amazing on high or turbo. 2xAA with a pair of eneloops or primary lithium is the way to go i think. I know you want a shorter light, but it might be worth considering a belt holster if you dont want to use a side pocket.

Personally, i dont trust li-ions enough to keep em in my flashlight in my pocket. I like eneloops better due to safety reasons.

Edit: I was totally wrong about the turbo. If you want to run turbo constantly you should be fine. You will only get a little over an hour at turbo though and the head WILL get hot. not too hot to handle, but kinda uncomfortable.

pjandyho · Oct 29, 2011

hcm said:
The Quark X AA2 specs list it as running at max brightness of 280 lumens for 0.8 hours.

AA batteries are 1.5v-1.6v. In series, that would be 3v, right? If the RCR123 is 3.7v and 14500 is 3.6v, how are the RCR123 and 14500 running the light at less output that the 2xAA? Seems like both the rechargeable batteries would run the light at higher voltage, and therefore be brighter, not less bright. Why does this not really make sense to me?

I do like the idea of running a single 14500, but still have the option to switch bodies to run on 2xAA also. But I am sacrificing brightness to do this?

I don't think I mentioned anything about it being less bright compared to running on two AA batteries? Did I?

I merely gave you a comparison running it either with RCR123 or 14500. Where did I mention running 2 x AA? The brightness would be the same whether you are running 2 AA, RCR123 or 14500 because the circuit regulate it to be so. Only difference would be runtime.

PerttiK · Oct 29, 2011

And back to the original question #2.
With RCR the runtime will be about half of that of primary 123, compare to runtimes in Quark 123.
But that shouldn't be that big of a problem as you can top up the cell after use.
Good quality cell's won't mind the occasional discharge all the way down till protection kicks in, that's why it's there, as long as you don't leave it empty for long periods.
With proper protection circuit the cell doesn't get too discharged, and especially with high amp drain the voltage bounces back up after the protection has kicked in.
I chose to use my 123 head with AA body and eneloop, same runtime and brightness on high, max runs twice longer with half the brightness compared to RCR.
And with eneloop there's less to worry as they handle better the abuse that a carry light might encounter.

pjandyho · Oct 29, 2011

Talk about good quality batteries, I find the protection circuit of AW batteries to be conservative. The protection usually cuts in at 3.5 volts. Some might want to drain it a little bit more but personally I think it is good. Most of my AW Li-Ion are already 3 to 4 years old and still work perfectly.

Elemeno · Oct 29, 2011

pjandyho said:
The output on 14500 will be the same as RCR123 but you get slightly longer runtime. I personally prefer the AA tube because I could attach an optional deep carry pocket clip and clip it on my rear pocket. Because of the deep pocket clip, it sits much lower in the pocket and it is less obtrusive.

I was thinking the same exact thing last night, I really would like to be able to use the deep carry clip.

GrimCreaper said:
Running it with 2xAA will actually increase the time you can use it, but the turbo will be less bright due to decreased voltage.

But we're talking about the AA2 head. It should run at full potential on 2xAA.

GrimCreaper said:
On 4sevens site im seeing high at 85 lumens for roughly 5 hours.

Ah, I see now, you are looking at the AA R5, we are talking about the AA2 XML head.

pjandyho said:
I don't think I mentioned anything about it being less bright compared to running on two AA batteries? Did I?

No, you didn't. TMCGLASSON36 said his X AA2 was a little below normal output using a single 123 primary. Since he is the only one here to actually have one and have tried it, I was going off what he said.

PerttiK said:
And back to the original question #2.
With RCR the runtime will be about half of that of primary 123, compare to runtimes in Quark 123.
But that shouldn't be that big of a problem as you can top up the cell after use.
Good quality cell's won't mind the occasional discharge all the way down till protection kicks in, that's why it's there, as long as you don't leave it empty for long periods.
With proper protection circuit the cell doesn't get too discharged, and especially with high amp drain the voltage bounces back up after the protection has kicked in.
I chose to use my 123 head with AA body and eneloop, same runtime and brightness on high, max runs twice longer with half the brightness compared to RCR.
And with eneloop there's less to worry as they handle better the abuse that a carry light might encounter.

So you are using a 123 head. But it sounds like you are using the Quark 123 R5, not the Quark 123 XML, which is actually the MiniX. Because the MiniX says not to run on RCR123, so it must not be able to run up to 4.2v, thus it can't be the same head as the AA2.

pjandyho said:
Talk about good quality batteries, I find the protection circuit of AW batteries to be conservative. The protection usually cuts in at 3.5 volts. Some might want to drain it a little bit more but personally I think it is good. Most of my AW Li-Ion are already 3 to 4 years old and still work perfectly.

I totally spaced on the fact that the protected cells would shut off before any damage was done. I never run my cells that low anyway, but I do like the ability to be able to. So, protected AW's, which I have, will be fine. But, TMCGLASSON36 says I will get less output, so we're back to that question again. If the head really does run at full output as low as 0.9v, I don't see why the head would have lower output on the single RCR123, but like I said, I want to trust the only person here who actually has this setup in hand.

PerttiK · Oct 29, 2011

From 4sevens site:
Quark "X" AA² [FS.QXAA-2]
LED Emitter: Premium Cree XM-L
Voltage range: 0.9V ~ 4.2V

So I would very much think it has the same circuit as the rest of the 1 cell heads (AA2 two cells but same voltage range).
While minix specs look the same as other mini's, 3 levels, no RCR etc...

Elemeno · Oct 29, 2011

PerttiK said:
From 4sevens site:
Quark "X" AA² [FS.QXAA-2]
LED Emitter: Premium Cree XM-L
Voltage range: 0.9V ~ 4.2V

So I would very much think it has the same circuit as the rest of the 1 cell heads (AA2 two cells but same voltage range).
While minix specs look the same as other mini's, 3 levels, no RCR etc...

But the question left is, will it actually be as bright at 0.9v-3v as it would be with 3.7v-4.2v?

pjandyho · Oct 29, 2011

I think it has more to do with the capacity of the batteries than the voltage itself. Voltage is one thing but if there is no juice left, there really is no juice left whatever the voltage. So a Li-Ion that has let's say 3.5 volts may not even have the capacity to power the light under full regulation even though there's still 3.5 volts on it.

Also, even though the head is capable of taking a voltage range from 0.9 to 4.2 volts, it doesn't mean that you will get full brightness at 0.9 volt. If you run a single 1.5 volt AA in there, you are still going to get a reduced brightness. You will need at least about 3 volts to achieve the max brightness possible, and for how long will really depend on the capacity of the batteries.

You can relate voltage to horsepower and mAh (capacity) to the amount of fuel in a car.

tre · Oct 29, 2011

I have a Quark X AA2 and I also have a Quark 123.

I measured the beam intensity of the Quark X AA2 head and here are my results:

Quark X AA2 head on AA2 body (eneloop cells) = 3,125cd
Quark X AA2 head on 123 body (cr123 cell) = 2,950cd

I let the light cool down between tests and tested each setup two times. The cr123 primary cell (I tried Titanium innovation and battery station brands) can't quite match the output of two eneloop cells. It is very very close though.

I measured at 5 meters and converted back to 1 meter to measure beam intensity. I measured 30 seconds after turn on. At no time could the cr123 cells match the beam intensity of the eneloops. Again, it is very close though.

Edit: The two Eneloop cells in series were measured at 2.63V and the single cr123 cell was 3.26V. Clearly the Eneloops can put out more current than the cr123 primary since the Quark X is brighter using two Eneloops at 2.63V than a single cr123 at 3.26V.

Elemeno · Oct 29, 2011

tre said:
I have a Quark X AA2 and I also have a Quark 123.

I measured the beam intensity of the Quark X AA2 head and here are my results:

Quark X AA2 head on AA2 body (eneloop cells) = 3,125cd
Quark X AA2 head on 123 body (cr123 cell) = 2,950cd

I let the light cool down between tests and tested each setup two times. The cr123 primary cell (I tried Titanium innovation and battery station brands) can't quite match the output of two eneloop cells. It is very very close though.

I measured at 5 meters and converted back to 1 meter to measure beam intensity. I measured 30 seconds after turn on. At no time could the cr123 cells match the beam intensity of the eneloops. Again, it is very close though.

Edit: The two Eneloop cells in series were measured at 2.63V and the single cr123 cell was 3.26V. Clearly the Eneloops can put out more current than the cr123 primary since the Quark X is brighter using two Eneloops at 2.63V than a single cr123 at 3.26V.

tre,

Wow, thanks for providing the hard data. I don't really know what the conversion is from the unit measure of cd to lumens, but it looks like the difference isn't very much between the two power sources. You say the two eneloops are brighter, but is it really that noticeable to your eyes? It seems like it is really just a small amount of output loss between the two. I think I am gonna jump on it and order the AA2 XML with a 123 body. Maybe I'll add a AA body too, but since the 123 will drive it brighter than a 14500, I think I'll prefer the 123.

tre · Oct 29, 2011

The difference is very little to my eyes. I don't have a 14500 cell but I suspect it will drive the light harder than Eneloops or cr123 primary cells.

Elemeno · Oct 29, 2011

Ok, based on this discussion, I am going to order the AA2 XML for sure. Now, the question is.......... Shall I go with the AA body and start running it on a 14500, or a 123 body to run a single AW RCR123? I already have a half dozen AW RCR123s, but I don't mind getting a charger spacer and few 14500 cells if that seems to be the better option. You think the 14500 will drive the head harder, right? And the 14500 has a higher capacity, so I will get a longer runtime too. So, 14500 seems to be the optimal option....right? Plus, since I am an emergency prepper, I like the idea that I can use my single AA body to run the head with a single AA in an emergency situation. If I am happy with the light, I might just switch everything over to AA/14500 lights so my EDC can also be my emergency backup. Oh, and on top of that, I will also have the 2xAA body that came with the light to run on 2xAA, which will run it at full output. So, did I just convince myself to get the single AA body? Is that the best option for my requirements?

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