Incandescent Vs Led

Incandescent Vs Led, What's your favorite?


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thinkFlashlights01

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What's your favorite? I like Led because it's bright, efficient, and... Cheap? Is it cheap? The little breadboard led's are, so are flashlight led's cost less? Or are the incans Cheaper? The extremely cheap flashlights seem to be plagued with them. :sick:
 

gsr

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LEDs have evolved to a point where they exceed incandescent lamps in every significant performance category when it comes to handheld lighting devices.
 

chillinn

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LEDs have evolved to a point where they exceed incandescent lamps in every significant performance category when it comes to handheld lighting devices.

Throw? I just discovered the hotspot of the Solitaire incan from 20ft is (not at all that useful, but technically still) brighter than both my Maratac AAA on low (1.8lm) and Fenix E05ss on low/med (8lm/25lm). Still, can't beat power LED flood, endurance and runtimes, or the high brightness (without much larger, power-hungry lights) . But until the worst, dimmest LEDs sold can do what the best incans can, we want to have both choices available.
 
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more_vampires

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I live in a predominantly incan area.

Their reasons? Comfort, familiarity, safety (not many hotwires,) availability, mature technology.

Alkaleaks at least fail safely.

My reasons?
No PWM EVER. :) PWM drives me batty.
Color rendition: a non-flashy friend of mine said it best. "Those lights light up, but don't seem to illuminate." He didn't know the words, but he was talking about cheap, crappy, angry blue led. Bottom of the barrel. Then he got an Inova and relented somewhat.
Known battery expiry: You see the light dimming and are not caught by surprise unless you've a bulb failure.

If battery life and logistics aren't an issue, there's a lot to be said for incan.

I know someone who swears by original Mag Solitaire incan with dark-adapted vision. He's crawling under stuff in partially complete houses, sometimes with no power.
 
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MidnightDistortions

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I prefer LEDs because they are far brighter and you got clean light. However in some situations incan lights are better such as fog or to avoid light glare from reading a map or bouncing from other object.
 

chillinn

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I know someone who swears by original Mag Solitaire incan with dark-adapted vision. He's crawling under stuff in partially complete houses, sometimes with no power.

You reminded me of this excellent essay, The Red Myth.

The red filtered light at the intensity most people use is likely decreasing night vision much more than a properly dimmed white or blue-green light would!

Not always, but when I just wake up in the pitch and too early for my clock, I've known for a while even a bright red (30-80lm) led light doesn't sting my waking eyes like my Maratac's Cree 1.8lm will. No issue after adjusting, but ouch and tears for 15 or 20 mins. Well, the incan Solitaire doesn't sting my eyes in this scenario, either. And if the author of the compelling essay linked above is correct, and contrary to what most who spend time in the dark and know and treasure their night adjusted vision, 2lm of warm incan is superior to that of the same output level of red for not only keeping your night adjusted vision intact, but SEEING.

That said, unless I was already night adjusted, I'd rather have a super bright LED under a house... only because I assume I wouldn't be night adjusted. You crawl under houses in the day. So you just walked out of the sunlight into pitch, and that is really disorienting, and the vision adjustment is really slow coming, thus I'd want something really bright, and I'm not waiting for the night adjusted vision to arrive while sitting under some house, or even walking into a house under construction without lighting. After 30 mins, sure... but what your own mind can do to you in a few minutes of thinking you felt something, or stepping off something into nothing... you know what I mean. So your friend must have some amazing eyes, or he starts early and doesn't come out of there for lunch. I've worked in houses (when I was paint crew), and lunch time noon Sun always killed my vision. Wish I had something bright back then other than the work lights we dragged around.
 
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more_vampires

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That said, unless I was already night adjusted, I'd rather have a super bright LED under a house... only because I assume I wouldn't be night adjusted. You crawl under houses in the day. So you just walked out of the sunlight into pitch, and that is really disorienting, and the vision adjustment is really slow coming

So your friend must have some amazing eyes, or he starts early and doesn't come out of there for lunch. I've worked in houses (when I was paint crew), and lunch time noon Sun always killed my vision. Wish I had something bright back then other than the work lights we dragged around.

Well, there's always the Pirate method of the eye patch. One eye dark, one eye bright. :) I guess the modern method would be sunglasses, but it's hard not to accidentally catch a ray. :devil: Almost makes you feel like a vampire, doesn't it? :crackup:It burns!!

...and you're right about day vision. He starts usually at 2-3am due heat and other people getting in his way. Another consideration is his particular use, which is very up-close. Were I to be checking lines for drips or some such, brighter is better as you need more range and punch.

Something else to consider is that he inspects wood and wood finish and needs bang-on colors. A bluey white cheap led is absolute no-go.
 

leon2245

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What's your favorite?

My my favorite is Incan, can be bright, white, great intensity per lumen, high cri obviously, & achieves it without a color swirl, orange/pink hues in any surrounding rings.

I find Led more practical.
 

StorminMatt

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Throw? I just discovered the hotspot of the Solitaire incan from 20ft is (not at all that useful, but technically still) brighter than both my Maratac AAA on low (1.8lm) and Fenix E05ss on low/med (8lm/25lm). Still, can't beat power LED flood, endurance and runtimes, or the high brightness (without much larger, power-hungry lights) . But until the worst, dimmest LEDs sold can do what the best incans can, we want to have both choices available.

If anything, the throw of incandescents is a factor that works in favor of LEDs. To be sure, throw has its uses in some situations. But few people who use flashlights are law enforcement officers or engage in search and rescue missions. The primary use of flashlights for most is outdoor recreation (camping, hiking, etc), task lighting, and emergency illumination (like during power outages). For these sorts of uses, lights which produce a pencil beam are at a disadvantage. Floody lights capable of illuminating a wide area are MUCH more useful for most folks. Do you think Zebralight would be as popular as it is if most people wanted throwers?
 

NotSoBrightBob

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I had an old Surefire M6 back in the day and although paying way too much money for it I loved the glow of that bright incan. What started as a shelf queen ended up being my go to light. That ramp up to full brightness was so cool to me. Unfortunately it ate batteries like a 100 pound German Shepherd eats kibbles and bits.
 

alpg88

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if you asked me that 10 years or more ago, i would not think, my answer would be inc. now as it was mentioned above, leds developed so that they outperform bulbs handsdown, even throw, (deep large reflectors, dedomed leds, aspherics lenses with colars reflecting some light back on the cristal), of course there are badly designed and build inc, just as there are crappy led lights, but led technology, imo, is far superior today than inc.
 

chillinn

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If anything, the throw of incandescents is a factor that works in favor of LEDs. To be sure, throw has its uses in some situations.

Let me know if I'm reading this right, and excuse the exaggeration to boil it down:
Throw is unimportant and useless except in the rare occasion of... xyz. For all intensive purposes, flood and/or spill is all that matters in a flashlight.

If inclined, please elaborate.

In most qualities that matter in a flashlight, LED is superior. But IMO, LED is not superior, always, all the time. I myself see this, and if I had to have one or the other, I'd have to go with LED. But we cannot allow ourselves to completely dismiss a long standing quality of flashlights before practical LED arrived, pretty recently.

Besides throw, another quality that matters in the comparison between LED and incan is the literal quality (the kind) of the light, the photons themselves, their wavelength and temperature, in relation to what sunlight is. One or two LED manufacturers, at the bleeding edge, are closing in on this or have already. Every other LED manufacturer has NOT. Until ALL LED is of the quality of a CRI in the 90's ranges, this cannot be ignored, because a single great LED (say the Nichia 219 series, or the decent offerings from Cree) does not in any way improve the performance of all the other inferior LEDs, which is most of the current market, nor what you'd beforehand expect from a random LED before you saw it/tested it. You can't say rationally that, excuse the metaphor, a combustion engine vehical is inferior in all ways that matter to an electric vehical because the quickest electric vehical will always beat the quickest gas vehical, because the 0-60mph times are not the only consideration that matters.

For an LED flashlight to be great, it actually redefines what a flashlight is... no longer a simple circuit, not your fathers' flashlights. Technically, a great LED flashlight is really a computer. Well, my ancient grizzled 32-year-old Apple //e blows any LED flashlight out of the water... the comparison is ridiculous, of course. But the point is, to be any good, LED has introduced complexities into the manufacture and use of flashlights that was never there before. More complexity usually means more fragility, and more expense (but not always). But I realize... wow, look at what we have gained. Still, it is important to note this fact in the History and Philosophy of Science and Technology (see what I did there? there is science and it is distinct from technology, there is history of science that is distinct from history of technology, and philosophy of each is altogether a different thing, these are not the same disciplines, but I'll lump them all in together for brevity, the way the vast disciplines in a wide field are reduced down to one all encompassing idea or term, such as "medicine" is whether talking about a doctor, or technician, simple instrument or complex machine used in that field).



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Why the images? The point is that LED and incan are different. We're comparing motorcycles to cars. The last image is a subtle point. I hope you get it, but this will break your LED flashlight, forever, maybe all LED flashlights at once, and there's little you can do to protect it from ever present cosmic rays, but this will have little or no effect on an incan flashlight. edit: Because our atmosphere absorbs most x-rays and gamma rays from coronal mass ejections, sunspots, solar flares, and supernova, terrestrial electronics are fairly safe from these extraterrestrial and cosmic rays. The electronics in satellites are not protected if they orbit higher than Earth's magnetosphere.

source of one of the images, PM has great stuff, just put here for enjoyment of all, but no point being made by me posting the link:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/tec...scent-vs-led-ultimate-light-bulb-test#slide-1

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I just thought of another decent metaphor. An incan flashlight is like a typical human (all too human), while an LED flashlight is like an android from sci fi, idealized and "perfect." But Star Trek's Data strongly disagrees.
 
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more_vampires

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Why the images? The point is that LED and incan are different. ... The last image is a subtle point. I hope you get it, but this will break your LED flashlight, forever, maybe all LED flashlights at once, and there's little you can do to protect it from ever present cosmic rays, but this will have little or no effect on an incan flashlight.
I just thought of another decent metaphor. An incan flashlight is like a typical human (all too human), while an LED flashlight is like an android from sci fi, idealized and "perfect." But Star Trek's Data strongly disagrees.
But PWM is like the Microsoft way. It's not a RTOS. True LED control is current control. The current control must be assimilated.Resistance is futile. (By futile, I mean static resistance plus reactance and whatever your power supply is doing right now.)Is it integrate or derivative? (oops! :) )PWM really drives some of us up the wall (me included.) Waving it in front of a wall is pretty much a deal maker/breaker when it comes to "visisble spectrum" EM.

But Star Trek's Data strongly disagrees.
Brent eventually rebelled at being typecast as a weirdo scientist. :)
 
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Bullzeyebill

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Chillin, would you please stick to the facts and not make nonsense comments in your posts. Your ramblings in this thread and other threads are looking like trolling.

Bill
 

Bullzeyebill

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Chillinn, please make your rebuttal to my action in a PM. :)

Bill
 
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jimbo@stn23

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Still mostly about incandescent over this way. Have enough LEDs but my favorites are incan, old Surefires. The only exception is 2 warm tint Malkoff's from Oveready. The light just appears more natural to me. I will admit that the spare lamp idea can get old, but it just seems to be worth it most days.
 

Bullzeyebill

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Chillinn, take a week off for "whining and complaining about the rules" CPF Rule 8, and "posting private communications, CPF Rule 12. Chillinn's public rebuttal to a moderators actions post was removed as well as a quote of it.

Bill
 
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