Interesting Observation In The Woods Last Night (Ican vs LED)

[RobertM]

My fiancée and I were Geocaching last night with a friend of ours and I got to use both my ican and LED lights. We were actually on the hunt for a cache that is a flashaholics dream-come-true...one that requires flashlights! :) You can read the cache description here.

Here is what we had with us on our hunt for the cache:
Me: SureFire M6 (MN20), SureFire A2-RD, Fenix L0D Q4
My fiancée: SureFire 6P, NiteCore EX10
Our friend: Cyclops 6V Xenon, Fenix E01

The cache that we were after required that we spot reflectors on trees in the woods. Once we get to a reflector, we had to search for the next reflector with our lights. I had my A2 twisted on red for navigating around and would then push for the incan when I needed it for searching for the reflectors. I've got to admit, my A2 is quickly becoming my absolute favorite flashlight! My M6 didn't get too much use, I must admit. I did use it on occasion and it lit up the woods like it was day...it was awesome! :D

The three of us pretty much only used the SF A2, the SF 6P, and the Cyclops (all incans). On occasion, I did turn on my L0D and Steph used her EX10. So what did we think of the LED lights after using incan most of the night...:sick2:

LEDs are great for around the house and for general use, but after last night, I'm a firm believer that incan is the best for the outdoors. Looking at a tree about 50-75 ft. away, we could easily see the reflector with my A2 and the 6P, but it was difficult with the L0D Q4 on high or the EX10. We found that it was much more difficult navigating the woods and searching for things with the monochromatic output of the LEDs over the nice full spectrum of the light the icans produced.

We had a great time Geocaching and we did find the cache. As a flashaholic, I just wanted to share this story with everyone and my experience with using both my ican and LED lights in the woods.

 

[KeyGrip]

It's great that you were able to integrate two of your hobbies so sucessfully! CPF member Carrot has "Flashlight Stories" thread, I think this one should be added. Thanks for telling.

 

[cl0123]

Robert,

Mahalo for sharing your story. First of all, does your fiancée offer a CPF 101 course for ladies as well? It would certainly make my hobby-life easier if my dearest wife would appreciate a good flashlight instead of just looking at the price tag. :whistle:

...Looking at a tree about 50-75 ft. away, we could easily see the reflector with my A2 and the 6P, but it was difficult with the L0D Q4 on high or the EX10. We found that it was much more difficult navigating the woods and searching for things with the monochromatic output of the LEDs over the nice full spectrum of the light the icans produced.

You may take some flames by comparing two 2x123 incan lights to two 1-cell LEDs. I am wondering would you also have something 2x123 like a Fenix TK1, TK10, TK11, or the TK20, for instance, to make it a more equivalent comparison? Earlier this morning, I took an A2 and a C2+M60 to test them out. With a target distance of roughly 20 yards, while my eyes do prefer the color rendition of the A2, I think the Malkoff M60 actually has more "oomph" or intensity. More of the tree-top appeared to be evenly lit by the M60, than just a tiny center spot light produced by the A2.

Wish I know better vocabularies to describe the following. For distances beyond 30 yards, the illumination produced by the M60 made the target looked flat and pale. The center-spot and the incan beam color of the A2 lit up the target with crisper outlines and contrasts, albeit much lesser useable spills.

With Aloha,

Clarence

 

[Coaster]

I actually found that using a red LED headlamp was great when we were doing a fairly long night cache. It lit up the ground just far enough in front of me to see where I was going but the light fell off quickly into the distance. The reflectors would jump out since they were the only thing past about 10' that would light up.

 

[jirik_cz]

Try Fenix TK20 and then report again :naughty:

 

[clickit]

robert.thanks for shareing your funtastic nite adventure.

 

[RobertM]

Robert,

Mahalo for sharing your story. First of all, does your fiancée offer a CPF 101 course for ladies as well? It would certainly make my hobby-life easier if my dearest wife would appreciate a good flashlight instead of just looking at the price tag. :whistle:

Haha, I know I definitely lucked out in finding her. Aside from being interested in flashlights, she likes learning and participating in most of my other hobbies including shooting.

You may take some flames by comparing two 2x123 incan lights to two 1-cell LEDs. I am wondering would you also have something 2x123 like a Fenix TK1, TK10, TK11, or the TK20, for instance, to make it a more equivalent comparison?

I understand your concern. Even though they are 2 cell versus 1 cell lights, the output of all the lights are in the same ballpark IMO.

SF A2: 50 SF lumens (~75-100 bulb lumens)
SF 6P: 65 SF lumens (~100-130 bulb lumens)
EX10: 130 lumens
L0D Q4: 75 lumens

In addition, it seemed that the color rendering of each light made a much bigger difference than any differences in output they may have had. The difference in visibility in the woods was substantial IMO--not just minute differences.

Robert

 

[Toohotruk]

I think it has more to do with reflector size...both the A2 and 6P have much larger reflectors than the EX10 and especially the L0D Q4. Neither the L0D, nor the EX10 are real "throwers."

 

[Gary123]

I wonder if the comparisons may have mismatched lights. Would be curious to see how incans compared to an led's where outputs and beam shapes were similar. The differences Robert noted may be accurate generalizations, but in the absence of greater control over output and beam shape I'm not quite sure how to take his comments. I too would have liked to see an led torch with more throw in the mix here.

 

[yellow]

comparing lights of comparable runtime (thats almost ok),
but of 3 times the size?
Thats like saying: "that Volkswagen Golf is worse than a full size truck because one can load more into the truck"

How about comparing same sized lights?
not only the led ones are brighter, they also run double the time.

The L0D is a joke in Your "lights to be comapred".
Why not compare it with a Solitaire? That would be a comparison.
Hence, even E01s should be brighter (and offering 5-10 times the runtime and no blowing bulbs)



PS: I would really like to know it the data is correct.
The A6 is not as bright as a 6P (standard LA)? :thinking:
How is that when comparing them side by side?
(because I compare my CR123/18650 Led lights to a Stramlight Scorpion 18650 (Stinger bulb) which seems way brighter than my 6Ps and have thought the A2 is the top of the breed)

PPS: I have no A2, SF is brutally expensive here and it gets more and more difficult to order them online

 

[cl0123]

In addition, it seemed that the color rendering of each light made a much bigger difference than any differences in output they may have had. The difference in visibility in the woods was substantial IMO--not just minute differences.

Robert

Agree. There is some physics behind it concerning the range of wavelengths reflected off of foliages and the way the sensors in our eyes perceive them. Anyway, more importantly, it is a tool that you have field-tested and enjoyed. Now, in "my" opinion, that's what REALLY counts! :twothumbs

Coaster mentioned using red lamps outdoors in the dark. Do you find them useful and provide enough illumination? I am still reading up and trying to understand why the A2 and Kroma are offered in all those colored-LED versions. Not that I am looking for a reason to get an A2 with a color LED ring. :grin2: I think my wife likes red, yeah, that's it! :crackup:

With Aloha,

Clarence

 

[KeyGrip]

Look around, there are a few good threads on the uses of different colored light.

 

[riceboy72]

Thanks for the awesome story. This sounds like a flashaholic's dream come true, especially one who has an appreciation for the outdoors!

The A2 really does live up to it's reputation and truly does have it's place in the ever evolving world of lights, and your experience reaffirms it. When used side by side next to some of my high output LED's, it does seem a bit anemic, but truth be told it does have a niche in everyone's collection. I think I'm going to start carrying mine again as an EDC once it gets back from Surefire repair.

Thanks for the thread, and for reinvigorating my love for the A2! Now if it would just hurry up and get back here!

 

[Bullzeyebill]

comparing lights of comparable runtime (thats almost ok),
but of 3 times the size?
Thats like saying: "that Volkswagen Golf is worse than a full size truck because one can load more into the truck"

How about comparing same sized lights?
not only the led ones are brighter, they also run double the time.

The L0D is a joke in Your "lights to be comapred".
Why not compare it with a Solitaire? That would be a comparison.
Hence, even E01s should be brighter (and offering 5-10 times the runtime and no blowing bulbs)



PS: I would really like to know it the data is correct.
The A6 is not as bright as a 6P (standard LA)? :thinking:
How is that when comparing them side by side?
(because I compare my CR123/18650 Led lights to a Stramlight Scorpion 18650 (Stinger bulb) which seems way brighter than my 6Ps and have thought the A2 is the top of the breed)

PPS: I have no A2, SF is brutally expensive here and it gets more and more difficult to order them online

My observation comparing LED to Incan outside is that it takes more lumens for an LED, even with similar beam intensity, to make out detail that an incan light, and many incan lights approach 100 on the CRI scale

An, A2 was tested by LSI Labs, during the Light Meter Benchmark Testing - CPF style, done a few years ago. The A2, which had been supplied by McGizmo without the LED ring, tested at 68 lumens, and is very comparable to an P60 LA that has been running for a few minutes. Lux is also similiar, the A2 reading 2508 lux as tested by LSI.

 

[RobertM]

comparing lights of comparable runtime (thats almost ok),
but of 3 times the size?
Thats like saying: "that Volkswagen Golf is worse than a full size truck because one can load more into the truck"

How about comparing same sized lights?
not only the led ones are brighter, they also run double the time.

First, you need to keep in mind that I went to the "test" location to Geocache, not test my flashlights. This "test" was impromptu at best. The M6 and A2 were the only lights I intended to use in the first place. We had simply decided to compare to the LED lights that we had in our pockets about half way though. In all honesty, we weren't comparing throw in any way, shape, or form; it was all about rendition and general usable light to navigate the woods and brush.

In regard to your bigger is better with flashlights analogy, I guess I should just throw all my SureFires in the garbage because surely my 3D Mag laying at home is superior because it is bigger. If we were talking incan only I could almost understand. But you are talking about LED vs. incan. Isn't one of the biggest reasons people go to LED is for it's bright output in a small package?

The L0D is a joke in Your "lights to be comapred".
Why not compare it with a Solitaire? That would be a comparison.
Hence, even E01s should be brighter (and offering 5-10 times the runtime and no blowing bulbs)

Yeah, the L0D's 75 lumens compared to a Solitaire's 2.5 lumens would be pretty close. I better run outside right now and compare the two. :rolleyes:

PS: I would really like to know it the data is correct.
The A6 is not as bright as a 6P (standard LA)? :thinking:
How is that when comparing them side by side?
(because I compare my CR123/18650 Led lights to a Stramlight Scorpion 18650 (Stinger bulb) which seems way brighter than my 6Ps and have thought the A2 is the top of the breed)

PPS: I have no A2, SF is brutally expensive here and it gets more and more difficult to order them online

What's an A6? I'm assuming that you are referring to the A2, and yes, a SF P60 does seem brighter than the A2. Now once the P60 has been running for a while and its batteries aren't fresh, it might be a different story since the A2 is regulated.

Thanks for the awesome story. This sounds like a flashaholic's dream come true, especially one who has an appreciation for the outdoors!

The A2 really does live up to it's reputation and truly does have it's place in the ever evolving world of lights, and your experience reaffirms it. When used side by side next to some of my high output LED's, it does seem a bit anemic, but truth be told it does have a niche in everyone's collection. I think I'm going to start carrying mine again as an EDC once it gets back from Surefire repair.

Thanks for the thread, and for reinvigorating my love for the A2! Now if it would just hurry up and get back here!

I'm glad that you like the story. The A2 really is a great light, even if it's not a bright as comparable LEDs and some icans. I hope your A2 comes back from SureFire soon so you can enjoy yours more. I've found myself lately to EDC my E1B on weekdays and EDC my A2 on the weekends. The A2 would probably be my EDC all together but the E1B works better with dress clothes for work with its smaller size and bezel-down clip option.

Robert

 

[thermal guy]

Try Fenix TK20 and then report again :naughty:

+100! It's the best light i have ever used in the woods.Tint is like an incandescent, throws like crazy and not bad runtime.Oh it's 2XAA by the way.

 

[Burgess]

:popcorn:
_

 

[yellow]

the common pointless reply :rolleyes:
as usual with such threads started by dedicated incan ppl

why dont u all compare similar sized lights offering about the same runtime?
That would mean they are running on the same power consumption, the main important measurable data in a light

thats why comparing
solitaire <-> E01
2 Cr123 <-> 2 CR123 / 18650 lights
would make sense.
(even when the led makes tend to offer double the runtime ...)

PS: I did not enter a L1D, because I do not believe You have ever seen a single AA incan in Your life. If so, dont use it for such a comparison.
Also no single CR123 because that battery greatly works for the led as a light source

 

[DM51]

the common pointless reply
as usual with such threads started by dedicated incan ppl

Someone else could just as easily turn that around and say that yours is the common pointless reply as usual by dedictated LED people - but they have not. The point best illustrated by your post is your churlish incivility.

Your increasingly sour and negative contributions are unhelpful, and border on trolling. If you have nothing useful to say in a thread, stay out of it. Further sneering interventions of this kind by you will lead to your suspension.

 

[EngrPaul]

Try Fenix TK20 and then report again :naughty:

+1

P.S. White LED's aren't monochromatic.