So now my batterys could explode?

[griffo]

I am a complete newbie to all of this.

I asked in the LED flashlight forum for advice regarding a new torch and found everyone extremely helpful.

I ordered a SolarForce L2 R2 torch.

It runs on 2 x CR123A batteries or 2 x 16340 batteries

I stumbled across a thread on here about battery venting/explosion and the more research I have done the more I am starting to regret ordering the above torch.

I planned to initially buy a box of 12 cheapo CR123a's from ebay until I could source a cheap charger and 2 sets of 16340's so that I could always have a charged backup.


Everything I have read suggests that when charging 16340's I need something that closely resembles a bomb proof room lol. with fire resistant mat, smoke alarm, auto timer fire extinguisher and ventilation etc.

Are 16430's really that dangerous? If so I sure as hell dont want to be taking them camping with me and storing them in the sleeping compartment as I usually would with AA's


It also seems to be suggested that I shouldn't use the torch until the batteries die if using 16430's, which seems a bit silly really. Not silly that I shouldn't do it, but silly that torches are designed to use these batteries when the blow up and can only be used for a fraction of their maximum operating time.

are CR123A's and 16430's really THAT dangerous?

Is there a rechargeable alternative that I can use with my new torch that isnt going to try and kill me???

As far as I am aware, my mobile phone battery is LI-ion and that is yet to try and kill me.


Whats the deal with these homicidal batteries then?

GRIFFO

 

[Chrontius]

Lithium anything can deflagrate or maybe even detonate. Primary, secondary, whatever. Lithium ion batteries are most likely to fail when being charged, which is why I charge mine in the fireplace. They're generally safe during storage (unless physically damaged or mutilated), and mostly safe during discharge (unless there's an underlying flaw, or you're abusing them with such high discharge rates that you approximate a short circuit).

Your phone battery could go boom, your laptop could go boom (go Dell!) but generally don't because of the charger's logic control circuit. Same with li-ion and li-poly batteries used in flashlights. They're just big enough to cause some real damage if they let go during charging. Hence the fireplace thing :)

 

[Black Rose]

Your L2 can also run on 17670 or 18650 cells, depending on which body your L2 comes with.

When you get into more powerful lights, the power options also get a lot more interesting and complicated.

I debated about going with Li-Ion rechargeables for close to a year before deciding it was worth it and I am glad I did - I was missing out on some really cool lights that I otherwise would not have been able to run.

When you start rapidly going through pairs of expensive primary CR123A cells, you soon realize that rechargeables are the only way to go.

As for buying CR123A primaries, get Made In USA cells from any of the major battery companies.
Order them online from any of the reputable dealers mentioned on this forum.

The dangers with primaries come into play if you use mismatched cells and one cell starts reverse charging the other :poof:

With Li-Ion rechargeables, the risk is in the charging stage.
I don't know about a bomb proof room. I either charge my cells on top of the stove or on a silicone baking sheet.

As for your phone, it's carefully plotting it's attack :)

 

[griffo]

As for your phone, it's carefully plotting it's attack :)

Its just lost its place on my bed side table then. lol

I'm assuming anything that isnt a dodgy looking make from hong kong will surfice in terms of CR123A's




from what I have gathered, 17670 or 18650 are larger than the CR123A's with the 18650 being around twice as long? does that mean one 18650 replaces two CR123A's? and if so, is it the replacing 2 LI-Ion cells with a single cell that makes it safer? if the 18650 is also a 3v (ish) cell am i not then going to lose 3v? will this not have a negative impact on the brightness of my torch?

are 18650's any safer than the 16340 or is it just because the one is used.?

I think that for this camping trip coming up I will stick to CR123A's and ensure I replace both batteries at the same time with brand new ones.

I have my eye on a 12 pack or duracell CR123A's on ebay.co.uk if it goes for a reasonable price then that should see me through a camping trip or two.
I'm assuming i'll get around 3 hours from a pair??



To answer the above question. I have the longer bodied L2 on order, not the mini one.

 

[Black Rose]

The 17670 and 18650 cells are 3.7 - 4.2 volt cells and replace 2 CR123A/16340 cells.

The advantage of 17670 and 18650 cells is their capacity...they will last 3 to 5 times longer than a pair of 16340 cells.

Depending on the drop-in that comes with the light, you may not see any difference in output at all.

I have used 17670, 18650, and a pair of 16340 cells in my Solarforce L2....they all produced the same amount of output since the drop-in is designed for 3.7 to 8.4 volts.

You can only use 18650 cells in lights that have a body tube that is wide enough for them.
Most Solarforce L2 lights are the standard size, which would take a 17670.
You have to buy a specific model to get the 18650 body, or you can buy the 18650 body separately.

 

[griffo]

ok so if i go recharagble, with the standard L2 body and the R2 multi mode.

the 17670 is the way to go. I am assuming the same is true of these as the other batts, decent make and fully protected?

 

[Chrontius]

AW makes some of the best batteries, protected cells and inherently safe ones. FYI: 17670 means "17mm x 67mm, cylindrical" and 18650 means "18mm x 65mm, cylindrical" The L2 body with an R2 LED is a pretty solid combination.

 

[Illum]

Rechargeable cells are normally more dangerous during recharging than anything else...it also depends on how your charger works. I have yet to see an explosion due to improper charging my self, though I really don't hope that to happen. With an incompatible charger I've detonated lemon and potatoes before i figured out they were single use batteries :ohgeez:

 

[LuxLuthor]

Lithium anything can deflagrate or maybe even detonate. Primary, secondary, whatever. Lithium ion batteries are most likely to fail when being charged, which is why I charge mine in the fireplace. They're generally safe during storage (unless physically damaged or mutilated), and mostly safe during discharge (unless there's an underlying flaw, or you're abusing them with such high discharge rates that you approximate a short circuit).

Your phone battery could go boom, your laptop could go boom (go Dell!) but generally don't because of the charger's logic control circuit. Same with li-ion and li-poly batteries used in flashlights. They're just big enough to cause some real damage if they let go during charging. Hence the fireplace thing :)

First thing to point out is the various categories of Lithium batteries....notably the "Safe" chemistry types which conflict with this quoted post. There's a lot of misinformation floating around which adds to the confusion. If you take the time to learn about proper use and care of various types of batteries, you can have a sensible relationship with them.

 

[Black Rose]

Thanks for the reminder on that thread Lux, forgot about that.

 

[seaside]

griffo, solarforce L2 would be too bright for reading books though, it really is lovely flashlight, one of the best bang for the buck you can ever find. It will serve you well at in-house and outdoor works.

First I think you need to understand what some terms mean. 18650, 16340, protected, unprotected etc. There're more than plenty of information available, so taking your time and reading them would help you understand things better.

Your L2 seems to be standard body, so 17670 is the best bet. It is 1mm thinner and 2mm longer than 18650, and has almost the same amount of charge. With it, you may expect about bit more than two hours of bright light. If the battery is protected, it will significantly reduce chance of dangerous situation by cutting itself off when over charged, over discharged or from reverse polarity.

All batteries are dangerous in certain siuations. That's why the label said "do not put in the fire, do not something somthing..." It can go boom! when, 1. you misuse the battery (ie, short two contatcs, put it in the fire. hit it to the ground hard, using fully charged battery and almost drained battery in the same unit. etc). 2. Your battery is defective. 3. your charger is wrong one or crappy one that does overcharge. etc. Kinda scary, huh? Don't be. Your cell phone battery basically is the same Li-ion battery like 17670. Dit it ever explode on you?
So, do not worry too much about it. Just do not cheap out, get good battery and good charger, and enjoy your flashlight.

 

[Chrontius]

First thing to point out is the various categories of Lithium batteries....notably the "Safe" chemistry types which conflict with this quoted post. There's a lot of misinformation floating around which adds to the confusion. If you take the time to learn about proper use and care of various types of batteries, you can have a sensible relationship with them.

And I just recommended inherently-safe batteries in the same hour. :shakehead

Well, I guess they could still :poof: if you shorted them, if only from boiling the electrolyte.

 

[mdocod]

Important to note here:

A cheap box of ebay CR123s is the most likely thing to explode that you can buy as it relates to lithium power for a flashlight.

Decent quality Lithium Cobalt with protection circuits and a decent charger used in a proper configuration is actually very reasonably safe. Laptops contain many 18650s, just for example.

The trick to harnessing lithium or li-ion cells for powering flashlights is to know what configurations are safe, what cells are of decent quality, and what chargers are actually safe. Many li-ion chargers out there are pretty lousy.

 

[griffo]

ok so I have a dozen CR123A Kodak batteries on the way as we speak. they were £1.33 each which isn't too unreasonable.

So I've been trying to find info on where to buy High quality safe or protected 17670's and I'm finding it hard to get much info from anything in the UK.

I here AW is one of the better battery retailers, are they availaible in the UK.

Also.
As my torch takes 2 x CR123a's and a 17670 isnt as long as the 2 smaller batteries, do I need some form of spacer? and if so does it need to be insulated?

 

[Black Rose]

AW is a seller over on CPFMP.

His cells are excellent quality and very safe.

They are more expensive than the cheaper cells available from overseas, but ultimately you get what you pay for.

The 17670 cell is a direct replacement for 2 CR123A cells - No spacer is required.

 

[griffo]

good stuff, thanks. I shall go on the hunt for some quality 17670's then

 

[seaside]

I think kodak CR123A is primary cell, not rechargable. Never put primary cell in charger, that will be dangerous. 17670 is rechargable cell, so you need a charger. Buying from AW always is a good choice. What charger are you going to get?

 

[griffo]

Im not sure yet, i know the Kodak CR123A's are primarys, I figured they would be safer to keep and use in a tent which is a pretty flammable place to be. Maybe I'm getting a little too paranoid.

The only AW i seam to be able to find from uk retailers are 16340 and 18650 at a cost of £11.95 for one big or a pair of the smaller.

Im still hunting for the 17670 type here.

I was considering maybe an ultrafire charger £20

 

[mdocod]

You can order the AW cells direct from AW in his sales thread using paypal. He ships direct from Hong Kong IIRC and the shipping rates world-wide are very reasonable.

Here's the link:
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=193269

read the payment instructions carefully and you'll be all set :)

Eric

 

[Benson]

Im not sure yet, i know the Kodak CR123A's are primarys, I figured they would be safer to keep and use in a tent which is a pretty flammable place to be. Maybe I'm getting a little too paranoid.

Unless you have power in the tent, you're not going to be charging Li-ions, which is when almost all Li-ion accidents happen. (Obviously, since Lithium primaries aren't rechargeable, they don't have many recharging accidents...) So I wouldn't worry about it from a safety perspective.

But the primaries do have better performance in extreme cold, and as mentioned, you won't be recharging the Li-ions, so if you need more runtime than the number of Li-ions you can afford...