TSHTF light kit

[fizzwinkus]

Somehow, I don't think there are many solar powered lights being sold without batteries. In any case, without a grid to come back to I'd rather have a couple orange joos and a whole setup that chances are will never be used. I think at the end of the day I think most of us are expecting the grid to return.

 

[red02]

Kinda - but when there is enough light to power solar cells then you don't need the flash light, when it is dark there is no solar power available. The only way solar powered lights are useful is if they have some sort of rechargeable batteries. But over the years the batteries decay and become useless. Depending on how many you have and how sparingly you use them it might work out better to have Lithium AA cells. But eventually you will have nothing that will work.

This all depends of whether you are talking weeks, months, years, decades or never ever.

Say you have 10x Eneloops good for 1000 recharges. Thats the equivalent of 10,000 batteries. And for the sake of argument you're running a Quark AA on 4lm rated at 2 days. That works out to 54 years of light... but your not using the light for 12hrs when the sun's out, right? so thats 108 yrs.

very rough numbers I know, but it serves to make the point.

 

[Monocrom]

If you're not expecting the grid to come back up, all that's left are solar powered lights and backup solar powered lights.

There's also the option of a solar powered charger for your AA rechargeable cells.

 

[KiwiMark]

so thats 108 yrs.

I'm not too sure that a 108 year old Eneloop would be any good, even if never used. From what I have read NiMH cells have a shelf life somewhere around 3 to 5 years. The AA Lithium cells have a shelf life of around 15 years. I suspect a 15 year old NiMH cell will be barely usable for anything and will not hold a reasonable charge.

 

[etc]

I have to wonder why have the 12 Alkalines? I would rather go with 12 more Lithium AA cells for their superior capacity & shelf life or 8 more Lithiums & 4 more Eneloops. Maybe it's just my anti-alkaline prejudice showing.
.

I have so many Alkalines laying around for years which are not getting used that I figured I am more likely to use them if I put them in there. But I see your point. I am aware that Lithiums are better in every way, especially in cold weather and have better runtime and more dependable. Good choice for sure.

The single best cell out there has to be Lithium AA, supposedly it can store longer than 123 judging by the expiration date. If 20 years is not enough, what is. NiMH and Li-Ion cells should fail by that time even if you have the ability to recharge them. Alkalines will be the first to go, I will leave them for home use.

I have a few hundred Lithium cells, with careful usage in low-powered lites they should last for years or even up to their expiration date. Forget guilt-free lumens.

Surefire came up with that cool 2xAA lite which looks really good on paper but I wonder how cost-efficient it is. Seems like a good addition at the right price. But I am going to check out the new Malkoff M31 module on 2xAA cells, if I like it enough, I will get M31L and M31LL for great runtime.
Maybe then I could obsolete all the 123-based lites I have along with 18650 cells and really simplify things. 18650-based lites are nice but maybe not practical in TSHTF when recharging becomes difficult or impossible, if the grid is down. Solar chargers... Well, just easier to stick a cell in it sometimes. 123 lites are better than 18650 in an emergency but still introduce logistical complications.
I am painfully aware that for a real and long-lasting emergency, having just one type of cell does have distinct advantages. I have a lot of other devices that are powered by the AA cell. This way, if you need the radio but not the lite, you can borrow cells from the lite, and vice-versa. Impossible with 123 and AA.

I must admit I haven't used D or C-based lites in years. Still have them, along with a boatload of cells but they seem like stuff to be traded.

 

[Kestrel]

Surefire came up with that cool 2xAA lite which looks really good on paper but I wonder how cost-efficient it is. Seems like a good addition at the right price. But I am going to check out the new Malkoff M31 module on 2xAA cells, if I like it enough, I will get M31L and M31LL for great runtime.

I'm very much of the opinion that the new SF E2L-AA is a rather poor match for your particular kit: Both the head & tailcap aren't interchangeable with your current 6P-based configurations, providing essentially no ability to swap out inoperative/malfunctioning parts in the field.

Much better to have a SF 9P with the M31 / M31L, with 2xAA. Also, you could carry two dummy CR123's. Now you have a light that has complete parts interchangeability with your current lights - the dropin plus the Z41 tailcap. Change out modules, cells, tailcaps, heads, everything in your kit can be interchanged, depending on the need. The two dummy CR123's along with CR123's, 18650's, and AA's can now be run in virtually any configuration you might find necessary.

I am setting up one of my car lights (a SureFire D3) in this manner:

• Malkoff M31W
• Malkoff M61WLL (hopefuly, as a backup perhaps)
• 2xAA (Eneloops as well as AA Lithiums for backup)
• CR123's for more backup
• Z41 tailcap (w/ McC2s switch)
• Z41 tailcap (stock) in reserve
• two dummy CR123's (for the 3xCR123 SF body)

With the huge number of possible combinations with these parts, this configuration should be ready for just about any possible situation or parts failure. It would be even stronger paired with your kit, much more so than the nearly 100% incompatible SF E2L-AA.

 

[red02]

I'm not too sure that a 108 year old Eneloop would be any good, even if never used. From what I have read NiMH cells have a shelf life somewhere around 3 to 5 years. The AA Lithium cells have a shelf life of around 15 years. I suspect a 15 year old NiMH cell will be barely usable for anything and will not hold a reasonable charge.

The solar charged will probably quit, the LED has about a 5yr life span as it is. Things tend to break down if constantly abused and slammed. Out in the wild a flashlight is not the holy grail. It helps, but if you need a flashlight for 15yrs there is something wrong that a light will not fix.

My point was that mathematically and practically it makes sense to use a solar charger.

 

[tolkaze]

As for batteries and availability in emergencies, I have a hard box with my batteries in it, and another one as an emergency kit. In the emergency kit I have 2 boxes of fresh CR123's and several lights (they change, as I haven't found one I want to keep in there full time yet) but as for the batteries, every time I buy a new box of CR123's, I put the new box in the emergency box, and take the oldest box out. That way I use up cells before their expiry date, and always have the freshest box in the emergency kit. So far, the expiry dates have only changed buy about 2 years, but I figure in 10 years time, no partially depleted cells in my emergency kit!

 

[KiwiMark]

My point was that mathematically and practically it makes sense to use a solar charger.

I have nothing against a solar charger - if you can keep a bunch of Eneloops fully charged then you can use a light as you feel like for a few years. But longer term you may find that it makes more sense to have some AA Lithiums and ration out their use as they will be good for 15 years, which will be several years after the NiMH batteries are no good.

If we are talking about no power ever again then at some point you would have to switch to some more primitive form of illumination like pine sap/pitch/wax torches or whatever. And as you say the lack of a working flashlight will not be your biggest concern.

 

[red02]

I have nothing against a solar charger - if you can keep a bunch of Eneloops fully charged then you can use a light as you feel like for a few years. But longer term you may find that it makes more sense to have some AA Lithiums and ration out their use as they will be good for 15 years, which will be several years after the NiMH batteries are no good.
...

Thats a good point. L91s are very comforting to see in your pack when your digging for a good cell.

Just googling the solar panel life span yields about 40 so years. Maybe a super capacitor based light powered by one could be an even more sustainable. The real question is if current solar cell technology can provide enough current to charge one for any reasonable amount of time.

 

[etc]

I'm very much of the opinion that the new SF E2L-AA is a rather poor match for your particular kit: Both the head & tailcap aren't interchangeable with your current 6P-based configurations, providing essentially no ability to swap out inoperative/malfunctioning parts in the field.

No, my point was throwing out everything else and keeping just the new SF 2xAA. And maybe a backup 1xAA lite like Infinity, poor thing that it is.

My concern is that:
(1) the new SF is untested at this point, and I am little afraid of digital lites, I like one-mode twisty.
(2) I rather like SF 6P format. It's bulletproof and idiot proof. Arguably easier to EDC than 2xAA. It has never fallen out of my pocket while 2xAA has. It really has all the features I want, I cannot think of anything to delete or add.
(3) While L91 is roughly equal to 123 in performance, with the rechargeable solution, I like 18650 more than NiMH that you get with AA.
(4) All in all, it would solve a problem that I don't really have in the first place.
(5) I have more hope in the 2xAA configuration with the new Malkoff M31xx module. If it really meets my expectations, I can get several. Looks like it's tuned for 2xAA or 1x123 format.

 

[etc]

An interesting candidate for TSHTF lite is a SF 9P clone with Malkoff M6XLL module. It can take several 18mm Li-Ion cells, or 3x123 cells, or 2xAA, in fact AA in any chemistry even NiZN. The lumens and runtime are determined by the cells put in it.

What I actually EDC as a designated TSHTF lite is a 6P clone with M60L. I like the ability to run either Li-Ion or primary CR123A. You get 120-140 lumens in a lite shorter than Mini-Mag. The 2900 mAh Panasonic cells generate an impressive runtime, at least 4 hours with a long tail and don't suddenly cut off which might be a problem in some situations. CR123A are brighter but shorter runtime with an even longer tail.

And more details on the above 3xAA Lite. What I like about this FiveMega with M6*LL is that you can use any AA chemistry. I like it more than M30 due to extremely long runtime on AAs. Another TSHTF lite. It will digest and spit out anything you put in it. Believe it or not, even junky non-alkaline "heavy duty" cells perform pretty good in it. Eneloops are better, Alkalines are better still and the best is of course Lithium cells. When everything stops, you should be able to get AA cells are the most common cell, plus I like having compatibility with my other devices that run on AA. You get Surefire quality but can run AA cells. A winning combination in my opinion.
I am deeply aware of the fact that 3xAA is is not even remotely practical for EDC. It doesn't fit anywhere and you need a special holster for it and even in a holster it would get in the way if you sat down. I haven't really figured out a way to EDC it. I kept it in the drawer for a long time, occasionally taking it out and looking at it, thinking how nice it is and putting it back. Until I decided to use it in the TSHTF kit. The knurling is better than on SF and the form factor is not bad for actual use.

The pouches can get detached and carried on the belt. If you don't run the lite non-stop for 48 hours, they should last a long time. I have a few more compact pouches that take 6x123 or so. I have a dedicated pouch for the extra Li-Ion cell phone batteries. My smart phone is pretty stupid and discharges so fast that you can go through a cell in no time at all.

 

[kosPap]

well time for my contribution

My version is a double version of this

! surefire 6P and a Soalrforce L2M with 2 extenders
Single stage and multimode modules in 2AA & 2-3xCR123 versions
3 Xenon bulbs
Extra switches
6 Cr123s - 8AA lithium - several low cost rechargable Li-Ions (treated as single use)

With limited funds this is all I could do, else I would go to soemthing like the ETC's route....maybe with Malkoff bodies.
The low-mode ring head is very attractive idea....its is the best balance of practicality while still maintaning a tactical function...

 

[etc]

Xenon bulbs?
Don't you think some kind of solid state technology is more reliable than Xenon? Or do you do it because of the superior tint?

 

[broadgage]

If planning for the long term, say 10 or 15 years then I would agree that lithium cells are the way to go.
I would not trust any consumer grade rechargeable cell for longer than 5 years.
IME the longest lasting rechargeable cells are old style 4 A/H D size NiCds, I have some over 20 years old and they work fine.
Recent advances in battery technology have been mainly to pack more A/H into a given space, shelf life and cycle life being secondary.

A 4 A/H d cell compares well with zinc carbon, and will work a lower power LED lamp for a long while.

These cells are very robust and will stand more abuse than modern sorts, they may be charged directly from a 10/20 watt PV module, though a proper charger would be preferable.
My long term disaster kit includes some of these cells, and a couple of PV modules.

 

[kosPap]

Xenon bulbs?
Don't you think some kind of solid state technology is more reliable than Xenon? Or do you do it because of the superior tint?

I will not claim EMP resistance, as soemone might expect...I just want to have my options open...

I will have to tahnk ETc for sprakling some more thought on the matter...
I have firmly set my belief at 1.2-3.6 modules wiht the addition of a 3.6-9V one..

BTW missing from mentioning & the pic is 2 flashlights. one that takes 1CR123 and another 2CR123s, that you can thread P60 pill into...Add a Derrelight DBS and you have maximum compatibility for the whole family!

 

[WESBC]

Not trying to hijack, but this thread has got me thinking into putting together a similar light kit for the same circumstances.

I've been thinking hard about what lights to include and the different options I can go with. I was thinking similarly by using a 6P+A19 body for use of CR123's and AA's and having a low and high voltage LED drop in to match. Also I would've gotten spacers to allow me to use 1 cell formats of each battery, not needing to match voltages or worrying about having just 1 cell left.

I started thinking about this and I came to the conclusion that it would be a little too much to carry. Albeit only being a few pieces in total, why not minimize it some more? I already EDC a E2DL/E1DL not to mention all the other lights in my truck (BOV) All standardizing on CR123's or D cell for a couple mags. And like a few pointed out something that has a long lasting low mode that would make sure no unwanted attention is drawn to you.

This leads me to my direction for my kit, why not have a separate 1AA and 1CR123 multi-mode light dedicated for SHTF scenarios. No worrying about: switching drop ins, odd # of cells, cell voltage (if you come across some batteries), no spacers, extenders. I will include a decent amount of batteries in the kit. I've still got the fun lights that can light up the night the stay in my car, but nothing dedicated for when the SHTF. I was thinking like Quark mini 123 &AA (they gotta match lol), this will allow high/low low output, SOS, and strobe. It's small enough (hopefully not too small) that I can still carry my other lights if needed.

Opinions welcomed

 

[kosPap]

well there are some considerations to deal with

the plus side of your reasoning is taht there are EDC lights taht can take body extensions and run AAs...Raptor -o and Dereelight C2H....

The downside is that it robs you of the total reliabiliti of the Malkoff/Surefire

if we are talking about SHTF we must consider long term suppert/spare parts/ maintenance & repair.

Imagine running out of AA batts and the otehr light does not wrok....
In this reassoning I would really opt for a Mcclickie is a SF lockout tailcap..if it fails i can at least bridge contacts and use it as a twist tailcap.

We are overlooking the headlamp, so another system is tempting
Zebralight H-xx and one Sc-xx. one coudl standarize in AA especially if he has some cheap unprotected 14500

ETC, sorry we are talking this so far, but I think we are still in the spirit of your OP....

 

[batmanacw]

well there are some considerations to deal with

the plus side of your reasoning is taht there are EDC lights taht can take body extensions and run AAs...Raptor -o and Dereelight C2H....

The downside is that it robs you of the total reliabiliti of the Malkoff/Surefire

if we are talking about SHTF we must consider long term suppert/spare parts/ maintenance & repair.

Imagine running out of AA batts and the otehr light does not wrok....
In this reassoning I would really opt for a Mcclickie is a SF lockout tailcap..if it fails i can at least bridge contacts and use it as a twist tailcap.

We are overlooking the headlamp, so another system is tempting
Zebralight H-xx and one Sc-xx. one coudl standarize in AA especially if he has some cheap unprotected 14500

ETC, sorry we are talking this so far, but I think we are still in the spirit of your OP....

I have several variations of "kits", but all my lights are for SHTF. About 50 of them.

My bug out gear has a Fenix P3D (old version) and a Fenix P2D. I carry enough batteries to run for months of regular usage on low. 8 batteries is plenty. This is what will go if I have to walk out the door and hit the woods running. It also has a cheap headlamp that takes two AAA batteries. The fenix lights will be eventually replaced with Quarks because of the more efficient low that attracts less attention.

My get home gear, because I travel for a living, has a Quark 2AA regular and a Quark 2AA tactical warm, a zebra light headlamp, and a Fenix LD10. There might be a couple other little lights I forgot, but this is my travel arrangement.

For around home, my lighting consists of several efficient AA lanterns running off eneloops. Many of my lights run off eneloops like my TK40, LD20, D10, NDI and others. I have solar panels set up to charge my deep cycle battery so I can run my fast chargers to get them charged up at least once a week.

Lots of folks plan on running to the woods when TSHTF and living like grizzly adams. That is the worst possible idea.

 

[etc]

Lots of folks plan on running to the woods when TSHTF and living like grizzly adams. That is the worst possible idea.

I agree. The whole idea of "bugging out" is faulty, because you should already be there in the first place and if you are not, bugging out will not work. We had a 2-day power outage recently and that was almost TSHTF - stoplights not working, traffic not moving, trivial tasks become complicated, like running to the store for gas. McDonalds were closed due to power outages. I ran the genny all that time but lacked enough outlets to plug in all the devices. So I used the generator + lites + candles throughout the premises. It was a taste of TSHTF, I can only imagine how bad it gets 3 weeks into it, or 3 months.

Even without TSHTF, you can get stranded somewhere without power for days.

I changed my kit a little. Took out alkalines. Now have total 24 x CR123A cells and 25 x Lithium AA cells. Now that should mean a huge runtime. With conservative usage, should last for weeks if not months.