Olight 3600 mAH the new flagship in 18650's?

[peterharvey73]

I've been out of this forum for a while.
I was interested in the new Nitecore TM06s flood light with 4x18650's powering 4x XM-L2 emitters for a 4000 lumen output & 359 m range.

I was wondering if the new Olight 18650 3600 mAH battery is the best of its type today?
This particular battery can discharge at a maximum rate of 6 Amps like the AW RCR 18650 3100 mAH etc?

Also, is the Obtronic RCR 18650 3600 mAH battery any good compared to the Olight?
http://www.orbtronic.com/3600mah-18650-li-ion-orbtronic-panasonic-rechargeable-battery#.dpuf
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...est-Review-of-Orbtronic-18650-3600mAh-(Black)
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?391677-Orbtronic-3600mah-18650

They're saying that the Obtronic 3600 mAH is really only 100 mAH more capacity than a 3400 mAH, so if this is true, then the 3600 mAH's are rather poor value for money?
May as well buy a 3400 mAH for a lot less money?

 

[mattheww50]

The very latest and greatest almost always carries a substantial price premium, i.e. you are likely pay more than twice as much for a 3600mAh cell as you are for say a NCR18650B which is nominally 3400mAh, and those (NCR18650B's) are now available for about $5 each from several sources. They are no longer the latest and greatest, so the 'shine' has come off as well as the price premium. The secondary issue is that you probably are going to see significant voltage sag once you past about 3.5 amps or so. That's marginal for many of todays high powered lights. My own preference runs to the 18650GA's which are about 3500mAh, and good for about 10 amps, so can easily output the 5-6 amps that big lights demand.

In any event, I think there is only one 3600mAh cell available today, so the Olight and Orbitronic likely have the same cell under the wrapping.

 

[peterharvey73]

Are the Panasonic 18650 3400 mAH below what you are referring to?
Are these Panasonics up there in quality with AW, Redilast, and Eagletac etc?
Moreover, is the Panasonic 18650 3400 mAH an actual "button top" battery that will work with the Nitecore TM06s?
Apparently the TM06's won't work with "flat top" batteries, and the NCR looks like a flat top in photos?

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...h.TRS0&_nkw=Panasonic+18650+3400+mah&_sacat=0

 

[mattheww50]

None of the brands you listed (AW, Redilast or Eagletac) actually manufacture batteries. They in fact purchase cells and brand them. The quality cells are pretty much all made by Samsung, LG, Sony and Panasonic (now Sanyo, who bought Panasonic Li-Ion battery manufacturing operations). Most 3400 mAh cells on the market are in fact Panasonic NCR18650B cells. As far as I know, none of the Li-Ion cell manufacturers produce a cell with a button top. All Li-Ion Cells start life as flat top cells. The Button tops are welded on, generally by whoever is actually selling the cell. By the same token, the protection on protected cells is added by the re-seller, none of the manufacturers of Li-Ion cells actually produce protected cells.

 

[akhyar]

^ rightly said.
The 18650 cells are not a mystery as who made them, and who re-wrapped them, but once we go to 16340, 14500, etc, the mystery deepen

 

[gopajti]

Olight 3600mAh battery use 3500mah Panasonic/Sanyo NCR18650GA cell, not the "real" 3600mAh Panasonic NCR18650G (as Orbtronic).

 

[bella-headlight]

I would have thought that the gain in real world use between a 3400mah & 3500/3600mah cell would be negligible ?
We recently had a group buy on BLF of 4 x 18650 NCR B Panasonic protected button top cells for under $13 a pack of 4 delivered from Everbuying, they checked out as genuine cells :twothumbs
Only thing to note is that in protected button top form they are long at 70.3mm.
GearBest has them for under $18 a pack of 4 delivered http://www.gearbest.com/batteries/pp_189833.html?wid=1
EDIT:
Oops, just noticed that they are out of stock.

 

[CelticCross74]

managed to get a dozen of the 3600mah Orbtronic cells when they had them. Fat cells. Had to almost stuff one into my UC35. Cannot remember what amps they are rated at but they do just fine in whatever I have them in the difference in run time vs a 3400mah Orbtronic is noticeable. Are we sure the new Olight 3600mah is a GA? They are not 10amp rated like the GA. Ive tried looking for what the core cell for the 3600mah Olight is and came up with nothing. Have over a doxen GA cells they totally have better capacity and drive anything I put them in to the max without breaking a sweat. They take awhile to charge though. Remember folks the 4000mah 18650 IS coming(according to Sal at Orbtronic)it was supposed to drop last year but who knows what the hold up is its still coming. Hopefully Sanyo will make enough of them to sell to light retailers etc. as the 4000mah cell is being made mainly for Tesla Motors.

 

[Milw light]

I like Orbtronic 3500 mah 10 amp protected high drains. I do not get voltage sag after they are used a bit as I do with B's, turbo on a B sure didn't last long. With the Olights I would think you would be in the same boat as the Panasonic B's at 6.7 amps for them. My PD35TAc needs more battery than the 18650b's(thats assuming I got real Panasonics?)

 

[KeepingItLight]

... Panasonic B's at 6.7 amps.

Orbtronic posted its own "derivation" of the maximum continuous discharge current for the Panasonic NCR18650B battery. Evidently, Orbtronic did not have access to the manufacturer's specification for this battery. That is why it made its own "calculation." Based on an assumption that the maximum continuous discharge current is 2C, Orbtronic incorrectly obtained a 6.7-amp maximum. The datasheet cited by Orbtronic, however, never explicitly states that the maximum continuous discharge is 2C.

Below is an excerpt from the manufacturer's specification showing the actual maximum to be only 4.875 amps. Note that the datasheet cited by Orbtronic is a different one that does not explicitly provide the maximum continuous discharge current.

 

[Milw light]

Its no wonder my PD35Tac works better with the 10 amp high drains...they have double the heat.

 

[discopanda]

I like Orbtronic 3500 mah 10 amp protected high drains. I do not get voltage sag after they are used a bit as I do with B's, turbo on a B sure didn't last long. With the Olights I would think you would be in the same boat as the Panasonic B's at 6.7 amps for them. My PD35TAc needs more battery than the 18650b's(thats assuming I got real Panasonics?)

Who makes the 3500mah cells? Sal recommended them when I enquired about out of stock 3600s but I never made an order as still undecided on my first torch purchase.

 

[peterharvey73]

Apparently Sanyo/Panasonic NCR18650B's at both 3400 & 3600 mAH capacities have been dethroned by the new Sanyo/Panasonic NCR18650GA's at 3500 mAH capacity which use IMR chemistry for a maximum discharge rate of 10 amps, especially good in the new hi amperage flashlights.

Just search for "Sanyo/Panasonic NCR19650GA 3500 mAH with Protection".
Make sure you get one with a Protection Circuit for safety.
If it doesn't say anything about protected, then it is probably unprotected.

 

[Devon]

I'm using the Sanyo NCR18650GA's in just about everything but cordless power tools, which typically need about double the discharge rate of the GA's.

If you are looking for a high capacity 18650, the GA's are currently the best available for discharge capacity that only require less than 10A, that I can find of course.

 

[Chicken Drumstick]

I've been out of this forum for a while.
I was interested in the new Nitecore TM06s flood light with 4x18650's powering 4x XM-L2 emitters for a 4000 lumen output & 359 m range.

I was wondering if the new Olight 18650 3600 mAH battery is the best of its type today?
This particular battery can discharge at a maximum rate of 6 Amps like the AW RCR 18650 3100 mAH etc?

Also, is the Obtronic RCR 18650 3600 mAH battery any good compared to the Olight?
http://www.orbtronic.com/3600mah-18650-li-ion-orbtronic-panasonic-rechargeable-battery#.dpuf
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...est-Review-of-Orbtronic-18650-3600mAh-(Black)
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?391677-Orbtronic-3600mah-18650

They're saying that the Obtronic 3600 mAH is really only 100 mAH more capacity than a 3400 mAH, so if this is true, then the 3600 mAH's are rather poor value for money?
May as well buy a 3400 mAH for a lot less money?

Or just buy better performing batteries.

I truly fail to see the obsession with Capacity (mAh). Do you judge a car by how big it's petrol tank is?

 

[Chicken Drumstick]

Apparently Sanyo/Panasonic NCR18650B's at both 3400 & 3600 mAH capacities have been dethroned by the new Sanyo/Panasonic NCR18650GA's at 3500 mAH capacity which use IMR chemistry for a maximum discharge rate of 10 amps, especially good in the new hi amperage flashlights.

Just search for "Sanyo/Panasonic NCR19650GA 3500 mAH with Protection".
Make sure you get one with a Protection Circuit for safety.
If it doesn't say anything about protected, then it is probably unprotected.

I think you are making a few assumption about discharge rates. You need to understand there is a difference between a peak and a continuous discharge rate.

But also reflect that for high output flashlight use, you also want something with the most stable voltage you can get. Most torches do not exceed the discharge rates of many batteries, but performance can be hugely different.


For example, take a look at these discharge curves. If you've not used these graphs before, you essentially want the line to stay as high as possible for as long as possible. The higher the line, the less voltage sag and the better and more consistent output you'll get from High and Turbo modes on your flashlight.

The total length of the line only really matters for moonlight and low modes. Not too mention once the voltage drops below a certain point it's all pretty redundant as the LED's require a minimal vf to operate at all.




I take the lower capacity cell every time out of these two.

 

[Lateck]

I truly fail to see the obsession with Capacity (mAh). Do you judge a car by how big it's petrol tank is?

Out here, yes! I buy a car that has a larger fuel tank. I can say the same with batteries. Not always near a charger or my flashlight can not charge with what I my have handy. So, more run time IS important.

My 2 centavos,
Lateck,

 

[recDNA]

Olight 3600mAh battery use 3500mah Panasonic/Sanyo NCR18650GA cell, not the "real" 3600mAh Panasonic NCR18650G (as Orbtronic).

But the GA is good to 10 amps but the Olight only to what 4 amps? Is it a different battery or an overly aggressive protection circuit?

 

[recDNA]

Apparently Sanyo/Panasonic NCR18650B's at both 3400 & 3600 mAH capacities have been dethroned by the new Sanyo/Panasonic NCR18650GA's at 3500 mAH capacity which use IMR chemistry for a maximum discharge rate of 10 amps, especially good in the new hi amperage flashlights.

Just search for "Sanyo/Panasonic NCR19650GA 3500 mAH with Protection".
Make sure you get one with a Protection Circuit for safety.
If it doesn't say anything about protected, then it is probably unprotected.

I am sure a search would produce somebody claiming to make a protected version of GA but does any reliable dealer actually do it? Not many I trust. Anybody know what battery is in the new AW 18650 "IMR"?

I found one called EVVA at mtn electronics. I never heard of them before. Illumn has keepower version. I've heard of them but I'm not sure I trust keepower either. Orbtronic shows a protected version in a google search search but an unprotected one shows up at the link. Not sure what's up with that.

 

[CelticCross74]

the Olight core cell is a mystery. No matter how hard I looked I could not come up with any info on the core cell. Maybe Olight managed to score some NCR18650G's some how? I do indeed like the new gen anode only protection circuit on the Olight cells it makes them closer to 65 mm. LG makes their 3500mah cell but as far as I know its only available unprotected. The GA cell is freaking fantastic with its low to no voltage sag, high amp capability and high capacity. I have a couple dozen GA's in both Orbtronic and Keeppower flavors. The dozen Orbtronic 3600mah NCR18650G cells I have are still holding up perfectly fine they have lost none of their capacity they still charge to 4.20v I think I have had them a year now. Got my first unprotected cell for my ZL MkIII HI the Sanyo 3500mah 10 amp GA for only 8 bucks off the ZL site. Noticed it charges quicker without the protection circuits. So far it cranks my very high output MkIII HI to the max without breaking a sweat still working off the first charge will likely charge it tomorrow. I use the light every night. Outstanding capacity and performance!