18650B Battery with unusual? add on

JohnQ

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Hello all. I'm trying to replace the battery in a power pack for a set of dental loupes. The battery is an 18650B. After ordering a receiving a new pair of 18650B I notice the stock battery has some sort of cap or cover over both ends that connects along the side of the battery. Unfortunately I'm on duty tonight so I can't put a picture up until tomorrow evening.
Anyone have any idea what this modification might be and where I might be a able to source a replacement? The manufacturer of the loupes wants the battery pack sent in and they "might" be able to "rebuild" the pack to the tune of $100-$150 otherwise they'll kindly sell me a replacement power pack for $400.
 

idleprocess

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Welcome to CPF.

Unfortunately the designation 18650B is somewhat ambiguous. 18650B is often shorthand for the Panasonic NCR18650B, which is a bare high-capacity/low-current li-ion cell. These are primarily sold to OEMs for incorporation into consumer products. A secondary usage is for hobbyists - often with a protection circuit (typically prevents over/under-voltage as well as over-current) affixed, ala...
4XSKU101462e.jpg


Insofar as dental loupe that also match 18650B this is the closest I could find in short order. Almost certainly not what you're looking for, but another match suggests it's a low-capacity li-ion cell within. And I thought the markup on power tool batteries was atrocious...

A photograph and particular model number might help find an alternative. However everything I hear about medical equipment leads me to believe that it's terribly expensive, proprietary, and the entire establishment takes a dim view on unauthorized replacement parts.
 

JohnQ

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Welcome to CPF.

Unfortunately the designation 18650B is somewhat ambiguous. 18650B is often shorthand for the Panasonic NCR18650B, which is a bare high-capacity/low-current li-ion cell. These are primarily sold to OEMs for incorporation into consumer products. A secondary usage is for hobbyists - often with a protection circuit (typically prevents over/under-voltage as well as over-current) affixed, ala...
View attachment 37227

Insofar as dental loupe that also match 18650B this is the closest I could find in short order. Almost certainly not what you're looking for, but another match suggests it's a low-capacity li-ion cell within. And I thought the markup on power tool batteries was atrocious...

A photograph and particular model number might help find an alternative. However everything I hear about medical equipment leads me to believe that it's terribly expensive, proprietary, and the entire establishment takes a dim view on unauthorized replacement parts.
Thanks for the insight. I'll be sure to post a picture tomorrow of what is in the power pack. The battery had a non descript label applied with the loupe maker's company information but no battery information. Fortunately the battery label was still underneath. And you're absolutely correct, once the "medical" equipment label gets thrown on it the price skyrockets. Even for what amounts to a pair of fancy glasses with a nice LED headlamp.
 

turbodog

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If you do measure the cell/compare to old cells and find them too long you can remove the protection device.

The 'protected' cells are usually double shrink wrapped.
1. remove the outer layer (if you are used to working with teeth, I assume you are good with your hands and have close attention to detail). it's usually a clear shrink wrap
2. pry the 'disc' from the end of the cell using a NON metallic device and be quick about it so as to avoid short circuits
3. the disc will detach from the end with a good tug/twist.
4. the disc is attached to the lead down the side which will come off freely now that it's not under shrink wrap
5. the lead down the side will detach from the other end of the battery with a little tug
6. carefully clean up the ends of the cell using a dremel/file/etc being careful not to cause a short or damage the underlying shrink wrap
7. done

Alternative #1
Or, just buy some UNprotected 18650 cells, being careful to specify button tops or flat tops.

Alternative #2
Get the pack rebuilt at interstate battery or a similar local battery shop.

And OMG... that's highway robbery for what is certainly a 1 or 2 cell 18650 pack.

I've got some dental clients for my IT business, but this is egregious to another level.
 

knucklegary

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And OMG... that's highway robbery for what is certainly a 1 or 2 cell 18650 pack.
Dental insurance pays what these DDS offices charges. This sets egregious fees to non insured patients.

That said, I paid $400 for 30 mins hygienist cleaning and in office digital xrays that appear to me degraded and incomplete (did not show root apex) absolutely useless

I've since moved on from general DDS offices, getting my teeth cleaned at periodontist office.. and xrays taken from professional labs.

$400 is chump change to these guys. Most play golf and bet that much at each hole on the course
 

scalpel_ninja

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Sounds like a protection circuit; possibly even both poles are exposed at one end like an Olight battery?

I work in a medical office and one of our sinks started to leak and drip. Office manager called in the corporate contracted plumber and they sent in a young technician who called his boss and then proceeded to say the entire fixture needed replacement and since it was “sealed” to the sink, that also needed replacing and quoted $4000. Yes, with three zeros. The office manager asked me to look at it and it obviously just needed a new seal kit or cartridge as the fixture was standard Delta. I proceeded to say VERY LOUDLY near the tech that the parts costed less than $50, and even if the entire fixture needed to be replaced, the mounting holes were standard spacing and just caulked in. A new fixture would be about $200. I also said if they quoted any more than that, the contractor should be reported to corporate and the BBB for poor business practices.

Miraculously, the faucet was fixed and the final bill was $150.
 

turbodog

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Dental insurance pays what these DDS offices charges. This sets egregious fees to non insured patients.

...

$400 is chump change to these guys. Most play golf and bet that much at each hole on the course

Sounds like a conspiracy against you.

I have many DDS/DMD/Perios/Endos/Orthos/etc as clients. Don't know a single one that plays golf.
 

JohnQ

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Dental insurance pays what these DDS offices charges. This sets egregious fees to non insured patients.

That said, I paid $400 for 30 mins hygienist cleaning and in office digital xrays that appear to me degraded and incomplete (did not show root apex) absolutely useless

I've since moved on from general DDS offices, getting my teeth cleaned at periodontist office.. and xrays taken from professional labs.

$400 is chump change to these guys. Most play golf and bet that much at each hole on the course
Just to clear a few things up here, I'm not a dentist. I'm a fireman. My wife is a dental hygienist. I can't/won't speak to your personal experience with a dentist as I didn't come here to debate healthcare. Perhaps the reason for your $400 cleaning/x ray was due to the presence of severe gum disease which may be why you see a periodontist now.

I came here hoping for information on batteries. And thankfully some have given insight.
I can also assure you that $400 isn't chump change to either my wife or me.
 

knucklegary

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Hello firefighter,

No gun disease here. I had an accident and lost one anterior tooth. Periodontist perform implants.

Also this periodontist office employs hygienists that are mature and professional. Not working to make their employer money.
I've learned over the years to avoid general DDS as the majority are hacks and scammers

The implant crown was installed by a prosthodontist

You received some pretty good info so far, hope it helps.

Btw, Welcome to CPF!
 
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JohnQ

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Thanks for the insight folks. After reading through most of your posts again and looking over the old battery I’ve got it sorted out.
The batteries I ordered initially did not have a protection circuit and the dimensions were obviously different lengthwise. They looked exactly the same just without the couple added mm for the protection.
 

knucklegary

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Thanks for the insight folks. After reading through most of your posts again and looking over the old battery I’ve got it sorted out.
The batteries I ordered initially did not have a protection circuit and the dimensions were obviously different lengthwise. They looked exactly the same just without the couple added mm for the protection.
Photos?
 

scalpel_ninja

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Thanks for the insight folks. After reading through most of your posts again and looking over the old battery I’ve got it sorted out.
The batteries I ordered initially did not have a protection circuit and the dimensions were obviously different lengthwise. They looked exactly the same just without the couple added mm for the protection.
In that case, would any protected 18650 work for the application? If so, then the problem could be solved for about 1/100th of the manufacturer’s price of a new cell.
 

turbodog

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Thanks for the insight folks. After reading through most of your posts again and looking over the old battery I’ve got it sorted out.
The batteries I ordered initially did not have a protection circuit and the dimensions were obviously different lengthwise. They looked exactly the same just without the couple added mm for the protection.

Oh, so you _need_ the protection circuit. No way around that... time to buy the appropriate cells.

 

JohnQ

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In that case, would any protected 18650 work for the application? If so, then the problem could be solved for about 1/100th of the manufacturer’s price of a new cell.
Oh, so you _need_ the protection circuit. No way around that... time to buy the appropriate cells.

Looking at the one of the old batteries a little closer I believe I can use a protected 18650 with a button top. The dimensions are correct and the power ratings match. I removed part of the old battery to see how the button/circuit is mated to the cell-
1C2A61BC-D6EB-485D-9561-C68AFFF6EECB.jpeg
 

turbodog

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Looking at the one of the old batteries a little closer I believe I can use a protected 18650 with a button top. The dimensions are correct and the power ratings match. I removed part of the old battery to see how the button/circuit is mated to the cell-

Yes, that's a protected button top. I've had really good luck w/ the 18650 store I linked above. You can view protected/unprotected flat top/button top and so on. Also you can view brands, capacities, and chemistries. Basically, you shouldn't have too much trouble getting an exact replacement. The higher drain rates are useful for vaping... and are not needed for a dental light.
 
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