2002 VW Jetta best 9007

[kbuzbee]

Hi, I was reading some very favorable reviews of the Philips Xtreme Power bulbs. I have trouble seeing well at night and appreciate a better headlight when I do venture out. I am currently running Sylvania Silverstar Ultras. They are much better than the OEM bulbs that were in the car. How do the Philips compare? I guess what I'm asking is:

Are they so much better I should change them out now?
Are they are some better and I should change them out when I need to do a bulb replacement?
Are they are about the same and I won't see much if any difference?
Are they not as good as the Silverstar Ultras?

And, I suppose... Is there a better option? I'm just talking direct replacement not an HID kit.

Thanks!!

Ken

 

[tay]

They are definitely better than the Silverstars. You'll find a very high opinion of Philips XP and Osram Nightbreaker here, but a very low opinion of the blue-tinted Silverstars.

As for whether to replace them now, or wait for the Silverstars to burn out, it depends on finances.

The 9007 Silverstar is rated for a 150 hour life on the lowbeam, and a 90 hour life on the highbeam, so you won't have very long to wait.

I always like to keep a spare pair of bulbs in the glovebox, in case I'm on a long trip and one of mine burns out, so I don't have to spend $20 on some ricer crap at the local auto parts store just to get back home, and so I will be able to see at night for a week or so while I order new bulbs.

So, it might be a good idea to replace them now, and keep the Silverstars as spares. Or, if you still have the stock 9007s, just hold onto those as spares, and run the Silverstars until they burn out.

 

[kbuzbee]

They are definitely better than the Silverstars. You'll find a very high opinion of Philips XP and Osram Nightbreaker here, but a very low opinion of the blue-tinted Silverstars.

Cool. Since I actually like the Silverstars I'm guessing I'll be thrilled with the XP.

The 9007 Silverstar is rated for a 150 hour life on the lowbeam, and a 90 hour life on the highbeam, so you won't have very long to wait.

Really?? Jetta runs the headlights 100% of the time (don't know if it's actually at low beam strength or something less but I've always assumed it's just regular low beam:shrug:). I estimate these bulbs have 500+ hours on them, but just 90 hours of low beam and 5 hours of high beam actually night driving. The other 400 hours is daytime where they are supposed to be running lights.

Regardless, it does sound like they are near due.

I always like to keep a spare pair of bulbs in the glovebox, in case I'm on a long trip and one of mine burns out, so I don't have to spend $20 on some ricer crap at the local auto parts store just to get back home, and so I will be able to see at night for a week or so while I order new bulbs. So, it might be a good idea to replace them now, and keep the Silverstars as spares.

Good idea, thanks!

Ken

 

[tay]

Often, they will run the bubs at like 6v or something like that as daytime running lights, and only get full voltage when they're actually on.

Are they more yellow looking during the day than they are at night? As thevoltage decreases, the bulbs generally have a lower color temperature. That's why you see a lot of cars with high beam DRLs and they're dim and yellow/orange looking during the day, but bright and white at night.

A figure you'll see bandied around here is that output is proportional to voltage with a 3.5 exponent, and bulb life is proportional to voltage with a -13 exponent.

So, 150 hours at 12.8v might be a thousand hours at 6v. I don't have my calculator on me right now. It's perfectly reasonable that at a reduced DRL voltage, they could last far longer than their rated full-voltage lifespan.

 

[Mik]

I've been out of Halogen bulbs for quite a while, so I don't know exactly what is good nowadays. One universal suggestion I can make though is to check the voltage that your lowbeams are actually getting while the car is running and lights are on. First, use a multimeter to check the voltage off the battery posts while the car is running, then get the voltage from the headlight socket while the headlight is on. Most cars will lose voltage between the battery and the actual headlight under load. The loss will vary by vehicle, but in some cases it can be substantial. If you see a significant difference you would benefit from installing a more robust relay setup to power the low beams. Any extra voltage you can deliver to your halogen bulbs, regardless of brand or type, will get you more output.

 

[-Virgil-]

Hi, I was reading some very favorable reviews of the Philips Xtreme Power bulbs.

The best 9007 bulbs presently on the market are indeed the Philips Xtreme Power items.

Do not buy blue or "extra white" bulbs (Silver Star, Crystal Vision, TruView, Hoen, PIAA, etc.); despite the heavy advertising push and claims of "brighter and whiter" light, they actually produce less light than a standard bulb, due to the blue glass they use (the tinted glass blocks light that would otherwise reach the road).

I am currently running Sylvania Silverstar Ultras. They are much better than the OEM bulbs

Nope. Worse. The "improvement" you think you're seeing is an illusion.

Are they so much better I should change them out now?

Yes.

 

[kbuzbee]

Interesting. They sure SEEM brighter. Not just a little but quite a bit...

Yes.

Thanks. Philips XP ordered.

Also, I'll check the voltage. I'm not sure what "upgrading the relays" means, exactly.

 

[kbuzbee]

Okay, so some research revealed (if I'm correct... please comment):

The normal configuration for this car uses a single pair of 9007 bulbs for both high and low beam.

The wiring harness probably does drop some (maybe alot) of voltage from the alternator to the cabin switches to the lights. (I'm still not understanding how to correctly measure this) and does not use relays.

Installing relays is complicated for this car. It moves the actual switch closer to the lights, upgrades the wiring but puts the DRLs into a higher voltage/lower life span scenario. The only way to avoid this is to disable the DRLs.

Does this seem like the right basic information to start with? If so, it seems like the only two reasonable options are to:

1. Leave the wiring harness alone and live with whatever voltage I'm currently getting.

2. Install a relay system and disable the DRLs.

Comments??

Thanks all!

Ken

 

[Alaric Darconville]

Okay, so some research revealed (if I'm correct... please comment):
puts the DRLs into a higher voltage/lower life span scenario. The only way to avoid this is to disable the DRLs.

1. Leave the wiring harness alone and live with whatever voltage I'm currently getting.

2. Install a relay system and disable the DRLs.

Headlamp bulbs run as DRLs are going to have a lower lifespan anyway, as the halogen cycle is not as efficient if the cycle is even beginning. Increasing the voltage to a DRL may actually increase the lifespan marginally (but that goes into the theoretical, I suppose).

You could try 3. Install a relay system and relocate the DRLs to the turn signals. See here: http://www.danielsternlighting.com/products/products.html (scroll down to "The Best Daytime Running Light Module)

 

[-Virgil-]

Installing relays is complicated for this car. It moves the actual switch closer to the lights, upgrades the wiring but puts the DRLs into a higher voltage/lower life span scenario.

Sure, but that's not the real problem. The real problem is it makes the DRLs operate in an illegal and unsafe manner. It's legal to have full-intensity low beam DRLs, but only if:

1. The DRL mode also includes all the other lights normally on with headlamps (parking lights, tail lamps, side markers),

or

2. The car has an ambient-light sensor that turns on all the other lights (park, tail, mark, etc.) when it gets dark enough outside that they are needed for safe visibility of the vehicle (the standard threshhold is usually 1000 lux).

If you put in a relay system, the reduced DRL-mode voltage will still operate them, and the low beams will operate as full intensity. The danger is that you'll have basically no real indication that you're invisible from sides and rear after dark.

Disabling the original (headlight) DRLs is easy. The turn signal DRL module works well.

 

[kbuzbee]

Disabling the original (headlight) DRLs is easy. The turn signal DRL module works well.

Well, that does sound easy. So then where's the best place to find a relay setup for this car? I want one that doesn't require pulling the motor or rerouting 40' of wiring. Preferably something that I just pull the plugs off the 9007s. Plug them into the relay setup and that onto the 9007s. I'd guess there's a battery and ground run in there somewhere?

Thanks!

Ken

 

[-Virgil-]

You might check with EuroWires; they appear to offer a plug-and-play harness for your '02, which is considered a "Mk. 4" model.

 

[kbuzbee]

I spoke with Jeff at EuroWires about that. He said he wasn't too familiar with the Jetta Mk IV (my 2002) and I should check with folks on VWVORTEX. I did a few searches there but didn't find anything.

Before I start a thread over there I wanted to see if anyone here has used his PNP relay harness on a Jetta Mk IV?

Thanks!

Ken

 

[-Virgil-]

I spoke with Jeff at EuroWires about that. He said he wasn't too familiar with the Jetta Mk IV

Interesting. I wonder why he is offering custom harnesses for a car he's not too familiar with.

and I should check with folks on VWVORTEX. I did a few searches there but didn't find anything.

It's just as well. The volume of ignorant/bad advice drowns out the relatively few people who know what they're talking about, from what I have seen of previous lighting threads there.

Keep in mind that if you want to do a proper job of this, no matter who makes the harness for you, you're going to have to drill a hole in the bulb access door to bring the heavy-gauge wires all the way to the bulbs. Otherwise the thin wires inside the headlight are a bottleneck. That is assuming the bulb is behind (inside) an access door or cover cap; if it is at the rear of the headlamp accessible without opening or removing a cap or door, then never mind.

 

[kbuzbee]

Interesting. I wonder why he is offering custom harnesses for a car he's not too familiar with.

I wondered the exact same thing. Kinda made me a bit nervous. I'd love to hear from a Mk IV owner here.

It's just as well. The volume of ignorant/bad advice drowns out the relatively few people who know what they're talking about, from what I have seen of previous lighting threads there.

The forum, in general, is pretty good. But I did notice that 90% of the posts in the lighting area seem to go unanswered... I also prefer bobistheoilguy for oil/filter discussions but for engine & transmission vwvortex is good.

Keep in mind that if you want to do a proper job of this, no matter who makes the harness for you, you're going to have to drill a hole in the bulb access door to bring the heavy-gauge wires all the way to the bulbs. Otherwise the thin wires inside the headlight are a bottleneck. That is assuming the bulb is behind (inside) an access door or cover cap; if it is at the rear of the headlamp accessible without opening or removing a cap or door, then never mind.

Drilling holes in plastic is, honestly, one of the least of my concerns. Not frying my electrical system is much higher on that list;). IIRC there is a spring clipped cap behind the bulb. I'd guess drilling the hole at the edge of that cap would work (though I need to go look it over today).

I'm also going to give a go at measuring what the voltage is. Jeff said to just measure the voltage at the fixture. This is what I would have done on my own but the general recommendation seems more complicated. To measure the voltage from the + battery terminal to one bulb lead and from the - battery terminal to the other. I do not understand the logic of what's being measured there. It seems that if you measure the voltage at the bulb you see what the voltage is, period. What am I missing here?

Electrical in and of itself is not all that tough but cars today use so many parts to do so many things, making mods is "uncomfortable" for me. If I can truly have a plu and play solution, that's one thing but I'd really like the guy offering it to have a MUCH better understanding than I do.

Thanks!!

Ken

 

[tay]

A multimeter records potential difference.

Your vehicle's chassis and grounds are kinda arbitrarily designated as 0 volts.
The battery positive terminal is also connected by a thick wire to the alternator. If we put the multimeter across the battery terminals, we might find that the positive terminal is something like 14 volts difference from the ground.

Now, if we measure the positive pin of the headlight socket, and compare it to ground, we might get like 12v.

A popular shortcut to this is to put one multimeter test probe on the battery positive, and the other on the positive headlight socket.
If the battery + is 14v above ground, and the headlight + is 12v above ground, then the difference between the two is 2v, which is the voltage drop of the harness. The multimeter will just read 2v.

However, IMO (and correct me if I'm wrong) an issue arises if they headlights are ground switched. Remember, any stretch of wire has a resistance, and will drop some voltage.

In a positive switched car, the relays and wiring switch the headlight positive, and the headlight grounds are generally going right into the chassis with a short stretch of wire and a screw, pretty low resistance, so it is often ignored. We assume the headlight ground is 0v, same as the car ground.

In a ground switch car, the relays and wiring switch the headlight ground, and the headlight positive is going straight to the battery (probably through a fusebox or something). In this situation, it is no longer applicable to ignore the voltage drop. In this case, the headlight ground might be actually 1-2v, since it has a pretty high resistance between the headlight socket and the vehicle ground, while the headlight positive might be 13.5v since there is less wiring between it and the battery.

Obviously, you seem like a guy who fixes things the right way, other you wouldn't be on CPF, you'd be on ebay waiting for your 8000k HID kit to ship alongside your blue-tinted brake lights. In that case, measure the voltage at the bulb (best idea is to do it when the car is warm and idling, and wait for it to stabilize to within like 0.1v so you don't have a bad reading because of a high idle or something), and measure it at the battery at the same time, then post the readings here.

Now, another important thing that not everyone realizes is that the bulb needs to be in the socket and turned on when you take the readings. If you stick your multimeter test probes into an empty socket, you'll find that there is only like a 0.1v drop over your stock wiring. That's because voltage drop is proportional to current. If there's no bulb, there's no current, and then there's no voltage drop.

 

[kbuzbee]

Ah HA! Thanks Tay! Now I'm beginning to get it. That makes sense. All the write ups I've read skipped the "this is why" part of the procedure.

Appreciate the clarification.

Ken

(by the way, got the Philips and installed them today - they are working but until it's dark I don't know how much difference they may make. Read the voltage at 12.4v at the passenger side socket.)

 

[kbuzbee]

Just a follow up....

So I put the Philips XPs in the Jetta and was out the other evening. Wow, they didn't really seem all that great... No where near as good as the SilverStars I just took out....

Pulling back into the driveway I decided to pull up to the garage door to see what the beam pattern looked like. The passenger side looked fine but the driver side was point up about 20 degrees!

Checking the bulb, it wasn't seated all the way! It was very hard to get this bulb in due to my large hands and the limited space between the battery and the lamp housing. I actually scraped my hands up pretty badly doing it!

So I futzed it some and now everything is good. Beam pattern is spot on. Haven't taken it back out at night yet but I'm sure they'll be fine now...

Anyway, wanted to pass the lesson along.

Ken

 

[shilent]

So are they better than the SS Ultras?

 

[kbuzbee]

They are.

The difference isn't earth shattering but they are better.

Glad I made the switch. Thanks CPF!

Ken