2xAA XML or XPG headlamp?

[entoptics]

Seems to me a tremendous amount of money could be made with a floody 2xAA basic twisty or clicky headlamp with an XML or XPG at the $30-$50 price point.



Perhaps 150, 75, and 5 ANSI lumens. By my guestimate efficiency tables, wouldnt that equate to 2-3, 5-8, and 60+ regulated hours of runtime in a normal handheld flashlight and therefore a headlamp?



Obviously, I'm just speculating, but why isn't there a bunch of headlamps taking advantage of the XML and XPG floody and efficient LEDs? And why aren't there more 2xAA headlamp offerings?



Seems like everything at popular retail locations (web and brick) run 3xAAA or 4xAA and use mystery emittters. Heck, even in the flashahaulic market theres not much else.

 

[degarb]

Seems to me a tremendous amount of money could be made with a floody 2xAA basic twisty or clicky headlamp with an XML or XPG at the $30-$50 price point.



Perhaps 150, 75, and 5 ANSI lumens. By my guestimate efficiency tables, wouldnt that equate to 2-3, 5-8, and 60+ regulated hours of runtime in a normal handheld flashlight and therefore a headlamp?



Obviously, I'm just speculating, but why isn't there a bunch of headlamps taking advantage of the XML and XPG floody and efficient LEDs? And why aren't there more 2xAA headlamp offerings?



Seems like everything at popular retail locations (web and brick) run 3xAAA or 4xAA and use mystery emittters. Heck, even in the flashahaulic market theres not much else.

I have modded one of my single AA to run two or three AA, by putting two AA holders at back side of band. I concluded that adding a single AA at rear of band took nothing away from the comfort or lightness of the light, while making the light have double the 2-2.5 hour runtime and double the reliability (Often regulated lights offer 15 minutes of light if you have a lazy cell, while direct drive you would just get a working but slightly dim light. This is very bad if you are relying on light in dark, or have someone around you who is watching you work.)

So, for comfort 2 AA is better than 1 AA, I would even venture to say. The problem is that this is counter intuitive (loss in sales, since psychology=sales). A single AA may fit better in a small pocket, and have no wire that could ever fail. And a single AA is slightly less geeky on head, and looks a tad better dangling from belt loop.

Me, I would take geeky, and make better pocket accommodations, any night, in return for more reliability/runtime/balance of a 2 AA.

Of course there would be other considerations before I would pull the trigger: build quality, emitter type, controller efficiency, lens/beam pattern, availability/wait-time, competition, balanced design (need aa at head and rear, and compact head for a small form factor) and price.

 

[Bolster]

It's a great question. I've wondered the same.

 

[LEDninja]

You won't get much output difference between XP-E, XP-G or XML off 2AA. XP-G needs 1A+ to have a significant advantage over XP-E. XM-L need 2A+ to have a significant advantage over XP-G.

As to floodiness it can be achieved by having a conical instead of parabolic reflector. Or no reflector at all like the early Zebralights.

LEDs have Vfs ranging from 3 to 4V.
3AAA alkaline runs from 4.5 to 3V.
3AAA NiMH runs from 4.05 to 3.6V.
2AA alkaline runs from 3 to 3V.
2AA NiMH runs from 2.7 to 2.4V.
So 2AA can not power up LEDs on their own.
BOOST CIRCUITS COST MONEY. So there are very few 2AA flashlights. Zebralights and a few others use boost circuits but they are $50 to $60 compared to $15 to $30 for a 3AAA model.
Retail owners are not dumb money-wise compared to members of this forum. They know their headlamps have to compete with $1 to $6 2AA, 2D torches and 6V lanterns.

 

[srfreddy]

There was going to be a 2xAA side by side Zebralight, SC5200. But they didn't release it...

 

[Bolster]

How much money do boost circuits cost, Ninja? I'd gotten the idea they were relatively inexpensive.

 

[srfreddy]

How much money do boost circuits cost, Ninja? I'd gotten the idea they were relatively inexpensive.

They cost circuit designers.

 

[cave dave]

Fenix was supposed to release a 2AA in the back headlamp this year, but there have been delays.

Surefire is going to release a 2AA in the front version of the Saint. The current full saint can use 2AA in the back instead of 3 CR123.

 

[LEDninja]

How much money do boost circuits cost, Ninja? I'd gotten the idea they were relatively inexpensive.

When you multiply $1 by 100,000 units, that is a lot of money. 100,000 is the minimum order from a manufacturer like Favourlight.

Manufacturer A offers Walmart a boost circuit based headlamp for $6 each, $600,000 for a production lot.
Manufacturer B offers Walmart a 3AAA headlamp for $5 each, $500,000 for a production lot. And the 3AAA is brighter***.
Which do you think Walmart will carry?

***3AAA can direct drive an LED at 1A. Boost circuits are usually 350 mA. There are boost circuits at 700 mA but they cost more.

Remember there are 6 billion people on this planet and only ? of them register on CPF (look it up at the bottom of the main page). Retailers make more money selling to the masses.

 

[robostudent5000]

Remember there are 6 billion people on this planet and only ? of them register on CPF (look it up at the bottom of the main page). Retailers make more money selling to the masses.

so true. flashaholics make up a small segment of the overall flashlight buying market and maybe an even smaller segment, percentage wise, of the headlamp buying market. i know a lot of guys who are still very happy with their dim old Tikkas and do not care to upgrade. and most headlamp owners probably don't care a whole lot about using 3 AAA v 2 AA because they replace their batteries maybe twice a year, if that.

 

[Bolster]

The reason I was asking about the cost of boost circuits, is I see them showing up in toys.

For example, this $7 Sauce light wand that my daughter owns, uses 1xAA and powers 3 LEDs. It would have to use a boost circuit.

I guess the question is, would your typical customer pay +$1 to use 1AA instead of 3xAAA? If there weren't a brightness difference, maybe.

 

[robostudent5000]

I guess the question is, would your typical customer pay +$1 to use 1AA instead of 3xAAA? If there weren't a brightness difference, maybe.

it may be +$1 for the circuit, but factor in the cost of redesigning the housing and circuits, the retooling, and it adds up. PT has been using the same housing and circuitry for the EOS and Quad and Apex for about 5 years. the specs for those lights haven't changed at all except for the emitter swaps. those things probably cost them next to nothing now. if they redesigned their lights, they would lose that advantage.

i'm sure they'll make the change to 2AA eventually. the new Petzl Pixas uses 2AAs, so i'm sure the big light makers understand the advantage of powering a light with 2AA, but it'll take them time to make the change.

 

[okent]

I have no idea why there aren't more.
Back when luxeon first came out with the high output LED's I used to make my own 2AA headlights with a small micropuck from some company I have since forgotten the name of.
They were clunky and definitely looked like an erector set but worked better than anything out there.
I now use maglight AA led light heads and put them on a pelican versabrite body as I need this angled light for my work.
I wish someone would come out with a more robust version that has multiple light settings as these bodies wear out within about 6 months. I would definitely buy it.

 

[Genes]

I have two. Both are about the same design. They are older, Ray O Vac headlamps, from about 10 years ago. They seem to be well made as I have been using them since that time. They have been modded to run off of two AA NiMh batteriers (can use Alkaline if desired). They have DX boost converters that are 5 modes and go up to 1 amp. I have recently replaced the single XPGs with single T6 XMLs. The Leds are mounted on 1/4 inch thick, circular aluminum heatsinks. The heatsink is minimal, but I only use these when backpacking and the night time temps are usually below freezing. They do get warm if I leave them on high for 10-15 minutes. Most of the time I use them on low of medium settings. I am impressed with the XMLs.