Alternative to sky ray 3800lumen

[scheven_architect]

Hello,

I recently saw this light http://www.manafont.com/product_rev...n-3led-5mode-memory-flashlight-218650-pr-7016 but as to be expected i saw on thai cpf that it only produces 1000 lumen. Now i was wondering if this flashlight would still be worth the bucks or what light would you guys buy for 50$ and why?

greetings!

 

[GeoBruin]

First of all, they say right on the sight that it only draws 1.45 amps on high. That right there should tell you that you're not getting 3000+ lumens.

In any case, your follow up questions was what to spend you $50.00 on. That of course depends on what you want out of your light. Do you want a large bodied multi-cell light like the one you linked or do you want a more handheld EDC type light?

If I were you, I wanted an impressively bright light, and I had $50 burning a hole in my pocket, I would go right back there to Manafont and pick up this drop in: http://www.manafont.com/product_info.php/ultrafire-cree-t6-3mode-memory-led-dropin-module-42v-max-p-5178

Then I would go over to the Solarforce sales site and order one of these: http://www.solarforce-sales.com/product.php?sname=&s=7&t=FB

Then just for kicks (and because you still have money to spare) you could go over to Flashlightlens.com and order a 28.6mm UCL lens.

When the pieces arrive, you just screw them all together, throw in a good battery and you'll be pushing 1000 lumens from a rock solid light that will fit in your pocket.

Cheers!

 

[tre]

Virus/Malware alert.......my anti virus software goes nuts when I try to click any of those links to manafont.com

 

[GeoBruin]

Sorry about that. I can't say I'm surprised but I can assure you that the links are not harmful. If an moderator so requests, I will remove my links.

 

[2100]

They are not harmful. My office's Trendmicro also go nuts. I'm in IT btw.

 

[scheven_architect]

First of all, they say right on the sight that it only draws 1.45 amps on high. That right there should tell you that you're not getting 3000+ lumens.

In any case, your follow up questions was what to spend you $50.00 on. That of course depends on what you want out of your light. Do you want a large bodied multi-cell light like the one you linked or do you want a more handheld EDC type light?

If I were you, I wanted an impressively bright light, and I had $50 burning a hole in my pocket, I would go right back there to Manafont and pick up this drop in: http://www.manafont.com/product_info.php/ultrafire-cree-t6-3mode-memory-led-dropin-module-42v-max-p-5178

Then I would go over to the Solarforce sales site and order one of these: http://www.solarforce-sales.com/product.php?sname=&s=7&t=FB

Then just for kicks (and because you still have money to spare) you could go over to Flashlightlens.com and order a 28.6mm UCL lens.

When the pieces arrive, you just screw them all together, throw in a good battery and you'll be pushing 1000 lumens from a rock solid light that will fit in your pocket.

Cheers!

TY :) What batteries do you think i should use then? I suppose as the led can handle only 4,2 volt i can only use 1 battery?
Someone commented the 18650 battery didn't gave the result he expected.
THis body allows me to use more than 1 battery i suppose? But as i said, i tihknk with 4,2v max, 1 battery is the absolute max? http://www.solarforce-sales.com/product_detail.php?t=FB&s=1&id=157

what's the difference (except for the price :p) with this one http://www.manafont.com/product_info.php/sst50-5modes-memory-led-dropin-module-p-5519
and how much lumen could i expect of the LED you recommended?

I suppose the UCL lens is a must, otherwise the led will be exposed, or does a flashlight body include a lens?

greetings, appreciate your help!

 

[LEDninja]

Here is the original thread on the Sky Ray 3800lumen.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...found-for-52-shipped...&p=3671272#post3671272

-----

I estimate the light to produce 800-1000 REAL OTF lumens at 1.45A battery draw. That is not bad for a $50 light. (Most '900 lumen' flashlights measure 400-500 lumens so this light is double the single P7/MCE variety.)
Many cheap 1*18650 SST50/XML lights are not voltage regulated. This allows the lower Vf LEDs to run above the rated safety level of most 18650 batteries. 2*18650 lights have to be regulated or the LED will turn blue and die within seconds.
So we have a light with the same output as a Fenix TK35 at half the price.

Forget about looking for a 3000+ lumen in the $50 category for now. You need $300+ for a SST90 for that.

-

Someone else is supposed to measure 2.7A which bumps the output to 1200-1500 lumens. Waiting for some more reports to see if Sky Ray has now upgraded the driver as well.

-----

I would go right back there to Manafont and pick up this drop in: ultrafire-cree-t6-3mode-memory-led-dropin-module-42v-max

Then I would go over to the Solarforce sales site and order one of these:

The ultrafire is rated 450 lumens elsewhere, probably 250-300 lumens in real life. The P60 drop in does not conduct heat very well to the body and most high power LEDs are underdriven. The CPF custom makers who provide full power drop ins also provide copper strips and instructions on how the user improve the heatsinking.
Most CPF budget advice is to get the Solarforce XML drop in.

-----

At $50 you are bumping into the low end of the quality manufacturers.

Quark MiNi AA², R5 Edition $43.00 - 2AA no need to buy Lithium ion batteries and charger. Its only 5" long - the length of a penlight.
Reviews:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...th-OTF-Lumens-90-Minute-Runtime-and-Beamshots
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-(XP-G-R5)-Review-RUNTIMES-BEAMSHOTS-and-more!

Xeno E03 XML $30-35 + shipping 200 lumens with 1AA, 300+ with 14500.
Review:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-G-R5-Neutral-White-Review-RUNTIMES-BEAMSHOTS

Zebralight has the SC50 and SC50w (neutral white) on sale for $49.
Review:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...XP-E-Neutral)-1xAA-Reviews-RUNTIMES-BEAMSHOTS

 

[scheven_architect]

I estimate the light to produce 800-1000 REAL OTF lumens at 1.45A battery draw. That is not bad for a $50 light. (Most '900 lumen' flashlights measure 400-500 lumens so this light is double the single P7/MCE variety.)
Many cheap 1*18650 SST50/XML lights are not voltage regulated. This allows the lower Vf LEDs to run above the rated safety level of most 18650 batteries. 2*18650 lights have to be regulated or the LED will turn blue and die within seconds.
So we have a light with the same output as a Fenix TK35 at half the price.

Forget about looking for a 3000+ lumen in the $50 category for now. You need $300+ for a SST90 for that.

-

Someone else is supposed to measure 2.7A which bumps the output to 1200-1500 lumens. Waiting for some more reports to see if Sky Ray has now upgraded the driver as well.

-----


The ultrafire is rated 450 lumens elsewhere, probably 250-300 lumens in real life. The P60 drop in does not conduct heat very well to the body and most high power LEDs are underdriven. The CPF custom makers who provide full power drop ins also provide copper strips and instructions on how the user improve the heatsinking.
Most CPF budget advice is to get the Solarforce XML drop in.

-----

Here is the original thread on the Sky Ray 3800lumen.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...found-for-52-shipped...&p=3671272#post3671272

Someone on the forum tested this ultrafire led and had a maximum of 1000 lumen dropping to a more steady 800.
Do you know if this led would be able to handle 2 18650 batteries? I suppose 2 batteries are 2x3,7v = more then the allowed 4,2.

greetings!

 

[RedForest UK]

Yes the ultrafire is consistently 800 lumen plus, it runs basically direct drive on high mode, with PWM to regulate the lower ones. It has it's drawbacks, as would be expected for a module that price, but punches well above it's weight performance wise.

It is also obviously just as easy to heatsink the ultrafire module as any other custom one, but definately read up on how to do it and make sure it's done well before running it on high for any long period.

 

[LEDninja]

Someone on the forum tested this ultrafire led and had a maximum of 1000 lumen dropping to a more steady 800.
Do you know if this led would be able to handle 2 18650 batteries? I suppose 2 batteries are 2x3,7v = more then the allowed 4,2.

greetings!

The old Luxeons, XREs, SSCP4s, SSCP7s, MCE have a Vf (max voltage) of 3.6V to 4V. A Li-ion battery is 4.2V fully charged dropping to 3.6V. So the 2 are matched and the LED can and is direct driven by the battery in the cheaper lights,
The XML is a lower Vf LED. When direct driven it can pull up to 5A but is rated only 3A. Many Li-ion batteries are only 2200 mAH with a safety limit of 4400 mAH less than what direct driving a low Vf LED can do.
- So when you get that Ultrafire you are risking an explosion. Here is a thread where an Ultrafire exploded at 3000mA. Look at the pictures of the damage. For 1000 OTF lumens the Ultrafire is drawing way more than 3000mA.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?280909-Ultrafire-18650-3000mA-exploded
- The P60 module system cannot get rid of the heat fast enough to avoid burning out the LED unless you go to great lengths to improve heatsinking. Prior to the XML Ultrafire had an XPG module with half the power. A member tried building dive lights with them and experienced multiple failures. I found a thread on the modules and a lot other people have problems.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?277805-Help-with-bad-cree-R5-modules
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?270143-Quick-look-at-a-R5-single-mode-drop-in
If UF had so much trouble with a LED with half the power do you trust them to get it right for the XML at least initially.
Learn how to add extra heatsinking between the module and the body before you use the light.

I have added some suggestions to my previous post. They are only 200 lumens but they are 1AA & 2AA much more pocketable than a P60 style light. The 3XML is not pocketable.

 

[RedForest UK]

The ultrafire 3 mode xm-l is a great, reliable, proven drop-in. I have two, both constently draw 3A at start-up (4.2v) dropping to 2.5/6A through most of the discharge and then dropping to around 1.9/2.0A as the cell drops to 3.6v with load removed. With an IMR it overdrives to around 4.5A but with that safe chemistry it isn't a safety issue, the only thing that will die is the led itself.

Seriously, break your stereotypes and actually read up the empirical facts on this one. Or even better, get one. You will be surprised.

 

[scheven_architect]

The ultrafire 3 mode xm-l is a great, reliable, proven drop-in. I have two, both constently draw 3A at start-up (4.2v) dropping to 2.5/6A through most of the discharge and then dropping to around 1.9/2.0A as the cell drops to 3.6v with load removed. With an IMR it overdrives to around 4.5A but with that safe chemistry it isn't a safety issue, the only thing that will die is the led itself.

Seriously, break your stereotypes and actually read up the empirical facts on this one. Or even better, get one. You will be surprised.

So could I use 2 18650 batteries (2700-3000ma) with this led to have longer light or just 1?
Because i saw this flashlight body:

http://www.solarforce-sales.com/product_detail.php?t=FB&s=1&id=157
WHat do these things mean?

The set includes:

Solarforce L2 Black CR123A/18650 Flashlight Body x 1 pc

Solarforce 18650 conventor for L2 L2M L2P Flashlight x 2 pc

My english/knowledge of flashlights is bit too poor to properly understand :).

greetings!

 

[RedForest UK]

No, sorry. You definately can not use 2 18650 cells, that will blow the led/circuit in seconds. You need to look for a drop-in rated for 8.4v or more max for that. I would recommend going for a single cell host though, 18650's are powerful enough and buck drivers imperfect efficiency. you will generally get longer runtime with a 1x 18650 light and a spare than if you had them both in a buck regulated light from the start. Of course this depends on the exact driver but with the added benefits of smaller size and much safer use 1x 18650 seems the clever way to go.

It means you get extension tubes too, but you really want the L2p, or the L2x for better heatsinking and long runtime on max at high output without heat issues, both of these are single cell hosts.

 

[Glow_Worm]

So could I use 2 18650 batteries (2700-3000ma) with this led to have longer light or just 1?

No, you can only use a single 18650 with this drop-in. You'll get about 45 mins on High with a single 2200 maH 18650.

 

[scheven_architect]

TY for enlightening me! appreciate it!

Is there a difference between these 2 drop ins except for the number of modes? Because the most expensive one says 650 lumen, while forum users tested the cheaper one i think with 800lumen as a result. And I'm just not used to manufacture ratings that are lower then reality :)

http://www.manafont.com/product_inf...3mode-memory-led-dropin-module-42v-max-p-5178
http://www.manafont.com/product_inf...opin-module-extra-op-reflector-42v-max-p-6260

Do flashlight bodies come with a lens or do i have to purchase them separate?
How do i know if my LED will fit in because the LED has a diameter but http://www.solarforce-sales.com/product.php?sname=&s=1&t=FB doesn't show measurements except external ones.

greetings!

 

[recDNA]

I have the Manafont Ultrafire T6 and the Solarforce T6. The Manafont is a little brighter. It draws almost 4 amps on IMR18650 and a little over 3 amps on protected AW18650. The Solarforce just under 3 amps. I see no difference in quality between them. I like them both. No evidence of either type burning out the LED nor exploding in my hand. Isn't that what the PCB is for even if I use a protected cell rather than an IMR?

If the Sky Ray actually pulls 2.7 amps with 2 X 18650 I want one so I hope someone will verify one way or the other.

 

[GeoBruin]

TY for enlightening me! appreciate it!

Is there a difference between these 2 drop ins except for the number of modes? Because the most expensive one says 650 lumen, while forum users tested the cheaper one i think with 800lumen as a result. And I'm just not used to manufacture ratings that are lower then reality :)

http://www.manafont.com/product_inf...3mode-memory-led-dropin-module-42v-max-p-5178
http://www.manafont.com/product_inf...opin-module-extra-op-reflector-42v-max-p-6260

Do flashlight bodies come with a lens or do i have to purchase them separate?
How do i know if my LED will fit in because the LED has a diameter but http://www.solarforce-sales.com/product.php?sname=&s=1&t=FB doesn't show measurements except external ones.

greetings!

There is definitely a difference between the two modules you linked. I have both, and let me tell you, the 5 mode is a piece of crap. It is not nearly as well made. The reflector is cheap, the emitter is off center, there are beam artifacts because of flaws in the LED dome etc. Trust me, the 3 mode is a great emitter for the price, the 5 mode is terrible.

The Solarforce hosts do come with a lens. The UCL lens that I linked previously is just a higher quality lens that will allow more light transmission. I have heard as much as 10% percent improvement in light transmission vs "conventional" lens. Don't get me wrong, there is no problem with the Solarforce Lens. I have several stock L2s running stock lenses, I was just trying to help you spend your $50.00 :)

All of the drop-in modules we have discussed here are referred to as P60 modules. They are a standard size and will fit any of a number of hosts designed to take P60 drop-ins. I Recommend the Solarforce (L2p particularly) because they are very good quality for the price and they offer a variety of upgrades to switches, bezels, lenses etc. The L2P is Type III Hard Anodized vs Type II for the L2, L2M, L2i etc. To me, the difference in the ano is significant. It makes the light look and feel like a much more expensive light and the price difference is minimal.

Regarding batteries, 18650 Li Ion cells are among the most popular batteries used by flashaholics here on the site. They have very high capacity and provide enough current to run very demanding LEDs.

 

[2100]

Geobruin, the 5-mode is not crap. But you are correct, i got it and the LED is off-center. That is why Manafont packages it with a OP. With OP its great. Some people actually may want strobe for signalling (cycling, vehicle breakdown? Or as checkpoint usage) and SOS for really dire circumstances use....but usually not flashaholics. If I really need another XM-L P60 I will get the 3-mode.

 

[Kindle]

- So when you get that Ultrafire you are risking an explosion. Here is a thread where an Ultrafire exploded at 3000mA.....

.o0 Follows the link to a story about a guy who was using multiple (3x) Li-Ion cells in a high drain application with no sign that he voltage matched...or even checked (despite evidence that at least one cell was possibly damaged)...the cells prior to operation 0o.

I don't think that thread shows what you think it shows.

 

[scheven_architect]

Someone told me manafont itself sells the drop in with body
http://www.manafont.com/product_info.php/ultrafire-c8-xml-t6-3mode-led-flashlight-118650-p-5271

It seems to have a bigger head so i guess it will have more spill than a solarforce?

http://www.solarforce-sales.com/product_detail.php?t=FB&s=1&id=19

greetings!