ARC LS - Violet

[One001]

Got my LS yesterday and put 1st my daytime impressions on "Manufacturers Announcments". Now had chance to test all 3 battery formats at night and confirm that my beam does have
a distinct violet tint to it. This is disappointing as I've seen this tint before in cheaper LED flashlights and you certainly can tell the difference between a normal white and a violet white. The normal white is nicer and brighter looking. From seeing posted beam shots and reading comments that the LS white is a warmer white, I was expecting either pure white or closer to an incandescent white. Even in the worst case a white with a little blue tint would be ok. But a violet white is not the clean bright white that you would expect from an expensive flashlight. The beam is quite wide angle and has a flooding effect at longer distances. Although I wasn't expecting the throw of an incandescent, I was a little disappointed that I didn't get that hot spot throw except at very close distances. For the purposes of up-close work the LS is a bright light but don't expect it to "hotly" light up a subject more than a few feet away. My LS came well lubed and was smooth to operate. Very nice solid construction - yes, "like a tool", which was mentioned before in another post. I wonder if I got the only odd violet tinted LS? Peter, please advise if this odd or normal, and whether I can exchange mine for one that is a warmer white?

You've produced a nice unit

, I'm just not that fond of violet tints.

 

[Gransee]

I hear you. Having a weird tint or screwed up beam can certainly be quite distracting. Having a distracting beam in a $100 flashlight is quite disappointing.

I would have to see the beam to comment intelligently on if it normal or not.

Please return the unit.

This reminds me of the problems we had when we first released the Arc-AAA (the younger sibling of the Arc-LS).

The early generation Arc-AAAs had problems with the heads falling off while in the pocket, off-centered beams, seizing threads, leaking o-rings, bunching o-rings, inconsistent color tints, flickering, fouled battery compartments, incorrect o-ring vertical alignment, poor lubrication, poor ground, blemished LEDs, fouled reflectors, misc outside finish blemishes, finish near o-ring blemishes, tooling marks near key loop, lettering errors, loose retainers, rough threads, DOA units, incorrect shipping, incorrect colors, wrong LED rank and a few others I temporally forgotten.

We tested the Arc-LS even more thoroughly in preparation for it's first production run. A few people have received a first run unit and some problems have been detected.

So far with the first LS run we have problems with the retainer causing the 123 cell to work incorrectly, tint variations, beam variations, poor or no lubrication, an odd DOA case (unknown cause), another odd intermittent case (thermal shutdown?), lens interior dust, lens "bubbles" and other manufacturing artifacts, exterior finish blemishing, finish color variations, thread roughness, premature gold contact wear and thread fouling.

I would have to say that most of the first run Arc-AAAs where eventually replaced with newer versions. Also, we eventually refined the design to the point that everyone of the above issues for the Arc-AAA were directly addressed and either solved or minimized. As a result, our rate of product return has been reduced to less than the industry norm of 3%.

We plan on doing the same with the Arc-LS. Unlike the Arc-AAA though, we are going to pause the manufacturing until probably the end of February while we directly address the list of problems above.

Btw, practically every report of a defective unit was posted here in the CPF. So you have the same cross section understanding of the level of defects in this product that I do.

I apologize for the defective units. Furthermore, we would like to make it up to you as best we can. True, you are out your time and we can’t retrieve that. As a trade off, we do offer new technologies and the option to acquire them before they are completely refined and ready for the 'guy next door'.

Maybe I should make a bigger point of telling people that.

The Arc-LS is a new product. We test the stink out of them but even simple problems manage to make it through, especially in a new product manufacturing process.

It may surprise some to know that the most complex design of a new product is not the product itself but the manufacturing process that produces it. I do not talk much about our manufacturing process because that is where the real trade secrets are. I would have to say that designing and refining the manufacturing process requires 5 to 10 times the engineer time as the actual product. Often products are dumbed down just to make the manufacturing process a reality.

I am not using this as an excuse, just to provide some explanation for our bad behavior.

There is little beta testing for a manufacturing process. The best proof of it working is to simply run a couple hundred (or thousand) products through it. Just making a few in the lab doesn't necessarily prove the production line will work. Overtime, experience does help us anticipate problems, and that is probably why the LS had less initial problems than the Arc-AAA.

We appreciate your support as we refine our products and come out with new designs.

Peter Gransee

 

[lambda]

Yes, I've had few different groups of Luxeons, both bare leds and with optics and the color does vary, even within a group received in the same shipment. Lumileds will hopefully get their process down better, or start sorting and marking by colors. Too bad on top of everything else, Peter you too have to deal with this problem from Lumileds.

 

[Joe Talmadge]

Just as a counterpoint, the light on mine was a nice warm white, and nicely centered. The beam itself is nearly perfect for utility use: a bright hot spot, surrounded by a bright enough corona that I can a whole room at once (contrast my SureFire E1, which has a small bright hotspot but nearly-unuseable corona). Beamwise, I couldn't be happier.

Joe

 

[One001]

Thanks for your open and honest response, Peter. Its no wonder you are so praised by CPF members for your excellent customer service. You are correct, to have a chance at new technology before anyone else, for a flashaholic, is worth taking the risk of encountering defects in a unit, especially if you know that the product is going to be backed up 100% by the manufacturer. You have done an admirable job of getting this unit out quickly to CPF members. I am very impressed with the quality and construction of my unit. I don't blame you for an LS LED that is off in tint, in my case, violet, but I am certainly glad that you are prepared to take responsibility for it when it is to the extent that it is distracting to the customer. Thanks, Peter!

 

[One001]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joe Talmadge:
the light on mine was a nice warm white, and nicely centered. The beam itself is nearly perfect for utility use: a bright hot spot,

Joe<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now, that's the kind of color and beam I want!!

 

[Alexis]

Peter,

What do you do with the returned units? I think some of use poorer CPF members might be interest in B-stocks of your stuff.

 

[lambda]

Ya, second that "B" stock interest...a violet tint may not be so bad, I wonder if it will make things glow?

 

[Gransee]

Ruff. We do not sell factory "seconds" or returns.

Sorry, no offense. I get this question a lot...

Peter

 

[Gandalf]

Yeah, my ARC-LS has the same violet color as a low grade Nichia 'white' led light has; the beam isn't much to boast about, either.

 

[lambda]

What if you scratch off the number and any other markings????

Totally understand not wanting any "B" grade stuff out there that could make you look bad; but I would like to experiment with trying to put very high output into a small light (ditch the lens and make a reflector based on the Luxeon emission pattern) and yours looks very interesting..........lots of ways to sink the heat..........

 

[Gransee]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lambda:
What if you scratch off the number and any other markings????

Totally understand not wanting any "B" grade stuff out there that could make you look bad; but I would like to experiment with trying to put very high output into a small light (ditch the lens and make a reflector based on the Luxeon emission pattern) and yours looks very interesting..........lots of ways to sink the heat..........<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It would take a grinding wheel to get the lasered type III off the housing. The laser actually changes the pigment of the type III so you would remove the type III in order to remove the lettering.

Also, the heads are sealed. We took one apart once and it required all but destroying the head.

The units that don't make QC often are either caught before they are sealed together (then the offending part can be replaced) or not officially sold. I have given some Arc-AAA seconds (mostly LEs because the QC attrition is higher and the units usally are electrically fine) to friends, family, contractors, sales people etc. Never a shortage of people to give them to. Most of the completed units that fail QC however are not even fit for anyone to use and they are stripped of salvaged parts and thrown away.

The reason we don't officially sell seconds is a matter of principle with me personally. It has to do with focusing not on a few bucks here an there but on producing the best units we can. It is a matter of pride.

Peter Gransee

 

[brightnorm]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:

The reason we don't officially sell seconds is a matter of principle with me personally. It has to do with focusing not on a few bucks here an there but on producing the best units we can. It is a matter of pride.

Peter Gransee<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bless you Peter, that says it ALL!!

Best regards,
Brightnorm

PS I think I speak for all of us when I express the hope that you eventually make
more than "a few bucks here and there"!

.