Maybe the fact that no one has written for a year is an indicator. There are a few great players now that offer great lights. John Matthew’s and Sure Fire were the pioneers. As we have seen leaps in the LED lumen output world and fancy circuitry, many now want various modes, UI’s and upgrades etc and they are getting that care of others. Once Paul Kim left Sure Fire something seemed to die within the company? Maybe that’s why they transitioned into suppressors. They haven’t done anything new for some time. Wish they did a 2 x AA light. There lights are still good but a bit pricey for the general flashlight guy. I would still rate Sure Fire as one of the best brands if you were a professional like a police officer but problem for me is sometimes I lose a light and that can be costly when you pay what you do for a Sure Fire. So many choices now.
Are Surefire Flashlights Outdated?
- Thread starter BlindFarmer
- Start date
leukos
Flashlight Enthusiast
I’m a vintage SF fan, mostly modded of course. There is just something satisfying about holding a quality American made product in your hand.
WarriorOfLight
Flashlight Enthusiast
The problem with Surefire is they stopped to invest in new ideas or even new flashlights. The flashlight lineup is more or less unchanged since years. The newest flashlight they did was the EDC1-DFT and EDC2-DFT. And even this two lights are some years old.
In my opinion there are not that much good flashlight brands. I would name Fenix as good China Brand, they are somehow reliable and good working. I own a few flashlights and a bunch of lanterns from them and they are all great.
For my taste Olight is more related to fan-boys. I may be everything, but not a fan boy. I am more free spirit with an own opinion about things. I do not need a company explaining me what I need or not. That is always good to be critical, not only in the flashlight area.
The Nitecore of the current days makes "stage" lights for me. I miss the good old days of D10 / EX10, ....
Wurkkos, Sofirn, Wuben, .... is more china junk if you ask me. The quality is below average and support is like the lottery.
But I have to say, that I only buy very a few lights per year. For me quality is important. My >20 year old Surefire lights are still working that makes me happy using the cool stuff I already have.
In my opinion there are not that much good flashlight brands. I would name Fenix as good China Brand, they are somehow reliable and good working. I own a few flashlights and a bunch of lanterns from them and they are all great.
For my taste Olight is more related to fan-boys. I may be everything, but not a fan boy. I am more free spirit with an own opinion about things. I do not need a company explaining me what I need or not. That is always good to be critical, not only in the flashlight area.
The Nitecore of the current days makes "stage" lights for me. I miss the good old days of D10 / EX10, ....
Wurkkos, Sofirn, Wuben, .... is more china junk if you ask me. The quality is below average and support is like the lottery.
But I have to say, that I only buy very a few lights per year. For me quality is important. My >20 year old Surefire lights are still working that makes me happy using the cool stuff I already have.
I know I posted in this thread before but I really do think Surefire should go back to classic designs with the drop in style lamp assemblies. If Surefire were to start producing their own quality drop ins that would allow users to consistently upgrade as they see fit. Surefire's main market seems to be military and law enforcement. The law enforcement industry is the only industry where I have noticed the lumens race to play a critical role. So every time an LEO's light needs upgrading they buy a new light or wait until the current light is totally dead. Trust me there are plenty of LEO's out there with lights in poor condition that should be replaced but cant afford it. It makes more sense for them to buy a quality but less expensive light at this point. If they can buy a high quality light and simply replace the LED assembly or other parts in the future that would make more sense financially to me. It would also reduce the learning curve of learning a new U/I and getting new accessories. I look at it like firearms. If you can simply replace a common broken part it makes things much easier in the long run. It would probably reduce warranty claims as well. If it is cheaper to just buy the stock part you likely wont bother to send it in for warranty if you have to wait. For example it would cost me around $25 to send the light in to Surefire. It would take 2-3 weeks to get there and then who knows how long to actually get it back if they warrantied it at all.. I will estimate 5-6 weeeks total. I cant go without a duty light for 1 shift let alone that amount of time. For that time I would need to supply an extra light to use as back up. Even working as a doorman at a nightclub having a different light for a few weeks threw me off my game. That effect could be detrimental to an LEO in a high risk situation.
To me the 6P with a forward clicky and a battery tube capable of using 2 cr123's or an 18650 is the perfect sized duty light. If Surefire would offer a custom "build your own light" option then I think they would have a real winner. Something were you could pick the head, drop in, body tube and switch assembly from a drop down menu of compatible options would be ideal. The options they have now just don't seem like they would work well. Cr123's are expensive and hard to find in Canukistan now unless you work for a department with stores built up already. Easy to replace rechargeable's with the option to use primaries is the way to go.
To me the 6P with a forward clicky and a battery tube capable of using 2 cr123's or an 18650 is the perfect sized duty light. If Surefire would offer a custom "build your own light" option then I think they would have a real winner. Something were you could pick the head, drop in, body tube and switch assembly from a drop down menu of compatible options would be ideal. The options they have now just don't seem like they would work well. Cr123's are expensive and hard to find in Canukistan now unless you work for a department with stores built up already. Easy to replace rechargeable's with the option to use primaries is the way to go.
Schokokeks
Flashlight Enthusiast
I guess I'm confused. The technology has mostly plateaued YEARS ago. Offering different emitters, complex UI's, or 30 second turbo modes doesn't strike me as real "technological advancement."
Before they moved to dual-fuel, using Li-ion, I could MAYBE see an argument that they were lagging in batteries.
The Stiletto (which I don't have because I hate internal batteries) was a flat pocket EDC years before those became the rage. Is format something that is innovation? Can you be outdated with the format of a tube?
They still set the standard for weapon lights. I think they discontinued their microscout, but I thought a super tiny AAA Titan on a swivel was kind of a neat idea for a carbine. If I'd seen one on clearance, I'd have gotten it for a Cx4 SPACE BLASTER. Was that innovation?
Maybe you could argue about drivers, but Surefire buyers aren't every going to be the people looking for "gee whiz" modes on a light, so I feel like they're always going to gravitate to whatever is tried and true.
Catering to niche enthusiast demands doesn't make anyone particularly technologically innovative, either. Most of the enthusiast Chinese brands just let you mix and match emitters and colors, really. Maybe throw in some "exotic" materials. Is that tech innovation?
I think, for the most part, there's just a lot of consumerism with most things, and Chinese companies excel at overproduction, haha. So, you can get a lot of stuff for a low price. America is the consumer nation, so we just buy a LOT. I think, for some people, saying they collect for "technology" sounds sophisticated, but it's just a cope. I collect flashlights. I have way more than I need. But, I like the differences in feel, form, beams, etc. It's so much cheaper than guns or cars, so I'm happy, and it gives me something fun to spent way too much time focusing on, haha. Is it more consumerist than I'd wish? Sure.
Then again, I still love the whole P60 ecosystem, because I like just getting a drop-in instead of needing an entirely new light. To me, that's peak flashlight technology. In some ways, I think Surefire perfected a few categories of lights so well...it's peak performance...literally. You can't top it.
The scout light, the pistol light, the P60 ecosystem - these are just perfection. We'll never do better, haha. We just switch up some stuff for variety or cause it's new (like a battery or emitter), but it's mostly still the same core product.
Before they moved to dual-fuel, using Li-ion, I could MAYBE see an argument that they were lagging in batteries.
The Stiletto (which I don't have because I hate internal batteries) was a flat pocket EDC years before those became the rage. Is format something that is innovation? Can you be outdated with the format of a tube?
They still set the standard for weapon lights. I think they discontinued their microscout, but I thought a super tiny AAA Titan on a swivel was kind of a neat idea for a carbine. If I'd seen one on clearance, I'd have gotten it for a Cx4 SPACE BLASTER. Was that innovation?
Maybe you could argue about drivers, but Surefire buyers aren't every going to be the people looking for "gee whiz" modes on a light, so I feel like they're always going to gravitate to whatever is tried and true.
Catering to niche enthusiast demands doesn't make anyone particularly technologically innovative, either. Most of the enthusiast Chinese brands just let you mix and match emitters and colors, really. Maybe throw in some "exotic" materials. Is that tech innovation?
I think, for the most part, there's just a lot of consumerism with most things, and Chinese companies excel at overproduction, haha. So, you can get a lot of stuff for a low price. America is the consumer nation, so we just buy a LOT. I think, for some people, saying they collect for "technology" sounds sophisticated, but it's just a cope. I collect flashlights. I have way more than I need. But, I like the differences in feel, form, beams, etc. It's so much cheaper than guns or cars, so I'm happy, and it gives me something fun to spent way too much time focusing on, haha. Is it more consumerist than I'd wish? Sure.
Then again, I still love the whole P60 ecosystem, because I like just getting a drop-in instead of needing an entirely new light. To me, that's peak flashlight technology. In some ways, I think Surefire perfected a few categories of lights so well...it's peak performance...literally. You can't top it.
The scout light, the pistol light, the P60 ecosystem - these are just perfection. We'll never do better, haha. We just switch up some stuff for variety or cause it's new (like a battery or emitter), but it's mostly still the same core product.
- Joined
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- On the east coast of the yoosah. In the place wher
Someone could posit that rewriting the framework or understanding of how things actually function could lay the foundation for a higher potential. But that only works if you believe in a higher existence (or existential state). If you believe something is the best it can possibly be, you could be both wrong and correct at the same time.
From a CURRENT TECH standpoint, sure, it has hit its own limitation, same as physical cpu chips, etc. But, it's for that functionality that we chase different tech. 'We MUST have the humility to admit that the pinnacle of what we know is just a pedastal and a monument to our own ignorance.' -dc38, probably. (and yes, I'm aware of the misspelling, it's part of the nuance)
kaichu dento
Flashaholic
I still like my E1e, E1L, E2e and original Titan. Unfortunately they cheapened the Titan moniker by totally replacing the titanium CR2 light with the follow up aluminum and other versions.
Schokokeks
Flashlight Enthusiast
Oh, I have a Titan Plus, and it's an electroplated nickel on solid brass. It's ridiculously nice, with fantastic mode spacing and a great beam - with the world's ugliest, green beam, hahaha. I tend to EDC a Peak Eiger and an AA in winter, but sometimes I'll do just the Titan Plus. It's fantastic.
kaichu dento
Flashaholic
The original Titan has a beautiful coolish tint that matches perfectly with moonlight, making it one of my all time favorite emitters. I did some experiments years ago when they first came out, standing in the moonlight and shining the Titan into the shadows to compare how much of a difference there was, and it was virtually indistinguishable between the light and the moon.
Yes, the T1 was remarkable.
And in classic Surefire fashion, had confusing model numbers for not one, not two, but (at least) three totally different versions using entirely different batteries ...
You write in your Topic "original Surefire Titan". But there were a lot Surefire Titan, 4 if I count correctly.
The original Surefire Titan (T1) was a CR2 light and ~500$ since it was (from what I know) Surefires one and only light made of titanium
Short after the T1 a Surefire titan T1A came out it was an aluminium light working like the T1 but using CR123. The UI of T1 and T1A was the same, just twist the head to switch light on of and adjust the brightness with infinite steps.
Years after this two AAA were coming more or less at the same time, a aluminium AAA light and a brass AAA light with "titanium anodizing". They were named "Titan Plus" and "Titan" if I remember correctly.
But I guess you are referencing the the last two since you were talking about AAA. If this is the case, no Surefire does not have AAA lights anymore. There are a lot AAA lights on the market that are quite ok ... Olight, Sofirn, Lumintop, .... to much to name.
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As Reference to "Surefire Titan"
Named "Titan"
Named "Titan T1A"
Named "Titan plus"
Named "Titan"
