Automotive Spotlight Information Question

[Optical Inferno]

Hi everyone...I've been following CPF for about a year now and finally took the time to actually register.

I have a question to put forth to the community but first a little background... I am the optical engineer for an automotive lighting company getting ready to release a set of LED aftermarket spot and flood lights. As such I was wondering what specs. you guys would like to read or see in a datasheet or on a website??

I'm wondering because I want to provide the best information (ie. lumens, spread,etc.) and avoid any marketing BS.... So what do you think??

 

[Marcturus]

So what do you think??

Hi, as you are the optical engineer, there is zero chance that you would post any marketing BS. Just put up a link to all the results from the reputable testing lab, and some of us will happily comment.

 

[Optical Inferno]

Your absolutly right. I meerly provide the data and numbers for the marketing people to create their sell sheets.

We tend to use Calcoast in California for our emergency lights and if standards are required we test there. However, I also have access to my own testing facility at the factory for general testing.

This was a request sent from marketing as it will be our first spot/flood light and we don't want to make the mistake of some of the other spotlight manufacturers.

 

[Hamilton Felix]

Well, beamshots are always nice and I'm sure they help sell.

Lumens and lumens per watt (since a big selling point of HID and LED is more light out for the power used) would be significant.

Beam pattern, horizontal and vertical, is good info. Remember the spec. charts they've published for a zillion years on sealed beams? You can look up the #4537 landing light, see the 11 degree horizontal by 6 degree vertical pattern, see nominal voltage and life expectancy at that voltage, candlepower, etc. I'd expect a fair number of the buyers of higher end spotlights (and the price of HID and LED makes them high end) to be interested in specifications. I'd even guess a fair percentage know the difference between total lumens and candlepower center beam intensity.

And since were talking LED be sure to include color temperature. Buyers who assume they're buying a white light near 4,000K will be annoyed if they end up with a 6,000K "blue" light.

I think the bottom line for most buyers will be:
How far can I see with it?
How much power does it need?
Now long will it last (bulb life and durability/quality of construction)?

Followed by "How much does it cost?" and "Where can I see one?"

Frankly, after years of using spotlights both privately and in Vol. Fire Dept. I've shied away from permanently mounted vehicle lights for occasional use. My ex-Police 2000 Crown Vic still has pillar mounted spots; the left one works fine, but the seldom-used right one is bound up and can only be moved with a forceful hand directly on the lamp. The seldom used pillar mounted (just above each A-pillar) spots on my old outdoor 1-ton 4x4 have long since had to be re-wired, and the right one got taken out by a limb. When I had a center roof mounted spot on a pickup, I sold the truck before it had a chance to leak or get broken off; it was fun, but not worth the bother of installation.

A few pistolgrip handheld spots have optional magnetic bases and switches that will lock on. For occasional use, these work well. Put it on the roof of the vehicle, aimed at the work, and you don't need anyone to hold it. Remoted controlled lights (such as Go-Light), both wired and wireless, are fun but not terribly cost effective for Joe Average. I've used them, but I'd spend the price of one such light on about three of the handhelds described above.

Good Luck.

 

[-Virgil-]

"Spot and flood lights"? Why? Who cares? A few off-roaders who already have scads of decent options and lots of room to mount large lights. Instead, how about some compact, high-performance roadgoing lights -- fogs that actually work and some good modular LED low beams.

Make them to comply with the newest regulatory provisions contained in the ECE regulations and SAE technical standards. For fog lamps, that would be the "F3" category in ECE R19 and in SAE J583. These newer provisions require higher performance than the older provisions. Make the low beams to comply with SAE J1735, with a stairstep-shaped cutoff (45° kink angles) and VOL aim with left-side cutoff gradient of at least 0.2. For physical form factor, make them compatible with the Hella 90mm modules.

Calcoast is very reliable.

 

[Hamilton Felix]

Hear, Hear! "Fogs that actually work." That's a worthy goal.

How many years ago did the Cibie 175 come out? And even today, is there a better fog light? Let's forget "bling" (I hate that word!) and get back to improving function.

To me, the selling point of LED (and HID) lights is simply more light out for less power in (even more important that the super long life of LED's; I use LED flashlights because they perform with smaller batteries and/or last longer). Give me a really good compact fog, that actually performs as a fog light should, but uses very little power, and I'll be willing to shell out a few extra bucks to hang a pair on my motorcycle -- be they LED, HID, or whatever comes next.

But back to spot and flood lights: Most Jeeps and larger roadgoing vehicles have big charging systems and batteries. The extra cost of LED or HID lamps makes little sense for occasional use lights. The guy who is way out in the brush with a little "quad" ATV and really needs to build a camp or dress a deer as it's getting dark, might go for a good flood that doesn't draw much power or take up much space.

 

[Optical Inferno]

Thats kinda what this light will be like. I think it only draws about 0.5A at 12Vdc to feed two branches of two Rebels.

I will take the info you guys suggested and pass it to marketing and hopefully we can avoid making serious mistakes during this product launch.

Thanks alot, and I will look at the fog light concept as this light may be capable of a slight modification to accomodate the required standards.

 

[deadrx7conv]

6 watt LED spotlight for the front of a vehicle? Is this a joke?
Whats your intended market?

http://www.magnalight.com/
http://www.visionxusa.com/index.html
http://www.rigidindustries.com
http://lumiteclighting.com/products.html
http://www.whelen.com/_AUTOMOTIVE/new.php
http://www.truck-lite.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/NewProductsView?storeId=10001&langId=-1
http://www.pmlights.com/products.cfm?cId=1&fId=66&pId=2704
http://www.tyrilights.com/1010LED4i-800.html
http://www.grote.com/prodcat/new/
http://www.maxxima.com/products/3/Back-Up+Lights.html

 

[Alaric Darconville]

Thanks alot, and I will look at the fog light concept as this light may be capable of a slight modification to accomodate the required standards.

I think it'll be more than a "slight modification", unless your company is just making toys. (Be sure to read ECE R19 and SAE J583 so know know what the specifications for a real fog lamp are.)

 

[Optical Inferno]

6 watt LED spotlight for the front of a vehicle? Is this a joke?
Whats your intended market?

This light isn't neccesarily going to be the brightest one that we plan on releasing. It just happens to be the first, which is why I started this thread. We also have other ones in the works (36W, 100W, etc.). This particular one is meant more for tractors and tow motors as an LED alternative to the big GE lights that most use.

Also...I was just being frank about the fog light thing. Trust me I know all about the SAE standards and stuff as I deal with them in our emergency light market. If we do intend to make such a light we will fully commit to a new design in optics,electronics, etc. and have it tested at Calcoast. No worries, I personally would not design or work for a company that just puts crap on the roads.

But thanks again for the information and ideas. I'll try to post some pics if I'm allowed when the lights are done.

 

[Hamilton Felix]

Y'know, I think commercial or industrial users might might be more willing than Joe Sixpack to pay a bit more for the durability of a well built LED work light.

 

[Marcturus]

Thats kinda what this light will be like. I think it only draws about 0.5A at 12Vdc to feed two branches of two Rebels.

0.5A 12V? Make it work with variable AC as well, and you could market a hub-dynamo bicycle light. No competing (quad-LED) product is available on a commercial level. Ph!lips uses two, Supern0va three.

 

[-Virgil-]

This particular one is meant more for tractors and tow motors as an LED alternative to the big GE lights that most use.

Ah, you're trying to supply a replacement for PAR36 and PAR46 sealed beams? A noble goal, but there are some big and not necessarily obvious hurdles to successful marketing. Send me a PM on here.

Trust me I know all about the SAE standards and stuff as I deal with them in our emergency light market.

It bears even greater care when doing a roadgoing road illumination lamp than when doing emergency lights. The range of allowable performance is huge.

I personally would not design or work for a company that just puts crap on the roads.

That's excellent to read!