Bad experience with MR11 LED replacements

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I have a set of industrial equipment at work that we record the operation of for troubleshooting if anything goes wrong, and we use MR11 bulb fixtures (small 12v bi-pin halogen) to illuminate the key areas for the video camera.

These lights normally burn out every 2-3 months, leaving the camera unable to record usable images. With the economy on the slowdown, the technicians' time is stretched pretty thin, and it often takes a few days to get around to replacing the bulbs, so I thought I'd try LED replacements.

After a bit of searching, I found these guys, who offer 4 white MR11 LEDs, and ordered 3 different versions for testing:
http://www.superbrightleds.com/cgi-...=MR16&keywords=&cart_id=9145257.23499&next=50

I got the following:

MR11-WHP1 (single LED in an aluminum heatsink)
MR11-WHP1.jpg


MR11-WHP6 (6 square LED dies on a board, 77 lumens)
MR11-W6HP.jpg


MR11-W12 (12 traditional LEDs on a board)
mr11-w12.jpg


I didn't order this one, as it's a narrow beam, which may have been my undoing - MR11-WLX1 single LED in a heat-sinked assembly
MR11-WLX1.jpg


Only one was spec'ed for lumens, but I was doing a proof-of-concept, so actual output wasn't critical at this point. Once they came in, all 3 were bright enough for my use, so I put the single LED and the 12 LED versions in a couple of fixtures that needed replacements. There wasn't a hugely obvious difference between the outputs of the 3 versions, though the 12 LED was definitely a bit dimmer.

The 1 and 6 LED versions were reasonably white - much cooler than the halogen they replaced, but not dramatically blue-tinged. The 12 LED version was much bluer. Color rendition isn't critical for me, so no big deal.

The fixtures are goosenecks with a screw-on plastic enclosure around the bulb to protect it and keep it in place (the bulbs are held in by spring clamps on the base), a frosted glass lens, and vent slots between the lens and the plastic enclosure. The fixture hangs free in the air, in a temp controlled environment that's in the 70 deg F range, but there's no cooling air flow directed at the lamps.

Anyway, long story short - they lasted less than a month. I walked by recently, noticed the monitor display was dimmer than it should be, and checked them out - both were much dimmer and much more purple, which is a classic sign of an overheated LED.

The single LED bulb, which I had hopes for due to the heatsink, had cracked the glass envelope on one side. I believe the main problem is that they're all in traditional glass envelopes (except for the face, of course), which prevents the heat from radiating away effeciently on the sides.

I went ahead and mounted up the last one - the 6 LED version - and will see how long it lasts, but I don't have high hopes.

They may last longer if the can were metal instead of plastic, or if I drilled vent holes in it, or if I used one without the glass envelope, like the narrow spot version, but I don't have a lot of resources to throw at the problem.

Just a bit of real-world experience with mid-range LED technology.
 
I've been running several of these three 1W LED bulbs in enclosed outdoor 12V fixtures for about a year (ten hours a night) so far without problems. They are currently sold out at DX but are available at Kaidomain and other places. 3W (total) of heat isn't a lot to dissipate. I have had problems with many other types.

3 x 1W - 3W LED Spotlight (12V / 150 Lumens)
Price: $11.96
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.5780
 
I don't have any experience with the MR11's, but I've had mediocre luck with MR16s, and I don't think there' much difference. My experience with puck lights are worse.

The problem here is likely the integrated power supply (and not the LED), which you think would be reliable given it doesn't have to perform the more brutal conversion from line voltage. However, I don't really trust the reliability of these type of converters in such a small package and classify a lot of them as Chinese junk.

Yet another reason LEDs are getting a bad name thanks to Asian (excluding Japanese) manufacturing practices. /Rant = off

I'm sure there are good versions of these, but there are simply too many people having problems with them for me to refer them any more. Obviously there are higher end MR11/16's that cost $50.00 or more that are likely better in quality, but that's too much in my book.

My solution has simply been to build my own LED heads, use a dedicated 12volt power supply, and have had 100% reliability and saved a lot of money. When I have a chance I'll post something on how to do this.
 
I've been running several of these three 1W LED bulbs in enclosed outdoor 12V fixtures for about a year (ten hours a night) so far without problems. They are currently sold out at DX but are available at Kaidomain and other places. 3W (total) of heat isn't a lot to dissipate. I have had problems with many other types.

3 x 1W - 3W LED Spotlight (12V / 150 Lumens)
Price: $11.96
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.5780

Is that a MR11 base? They don't specify. I searched dx first but didn't come up with any MR11 lights. I tried one of their MR16s before, which worked but wouldn't fit in the shroud, so don't have long-term data.

It looks like a better ventilated design overall, especially without the glass envelope. I'm not sure why anyone makes these in the glass version (unless the glass body keeps the cost down), since it doesn't need the reflector surface the way the halogen does. It claims to be a spot, but it's easy enough to try it out.

I'll give these a try when they come back into stock.

I don't have any experience with the MR11's, but I've had mediocre luck with MR16s, and I don't think there' much difference. My experience with puck lights are worse.

The problem here is likely the integrated power supply (and not the LED), which you think would be reliable given it doesn't have to perform the more brutal conversion from line voltage. However, I don't really trust the reliability of these type of converters in such a small package and classify a lot of them as Chinese junk.

Yet another reason LEDs are getting a bad name thanks to Asian (excluding Japanese) manufacturing practices. /Rant = off

I'm sure there are good versions of these, but there are simply too many people having problems with them for me to refer them any more. Obviously there are higher end MR11/16's that cost $50.00 or more that are likely better in quality, but that's too much in my book.

My solution has simply been to build my own LED heads, use a dedicated 12volt power supply, and have had 100% reliability and saved a lot of money. When I have a chance I'll post something on how to do this.

Yeah, it's the same problem in Chinese optics - with the no-name brands, you never know what you're getting. Even if they work fine one time, they may be a different design, or come from a different factory altogether the next time. Seems like it'll take some middleman getting in there and requiring them to manufacture to certain specs and holding them to it.

In this case, the color shift made me think it was overheating of the LED, but I suppose the PS output dropping could cause similar effects. I'll take them apart when I get a chance and see if there's any obvious trouble with the circuits.


Thanks for the feedback - I'm a big fan of LED flashlights, but fixed lighting still has a way to go, it seems.
 
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but I suppose the PS output dropping could cause similar effects

Yep.

Sad when the heads I build myself, which are nothing more than stars epoxied to 3/4 x 3" steel pipe with a lens glued to the star have a perfect reliability record and don't get warm.
 
Well, my company's shutting down the facility these lights are used in, so no more testing on them. I'll pull the last one out and get some pics of it too.

Here's what the two failed ones look like internally. The 12 led version has a plastic reflector, while the single led is glass (this is the one that cracked). There's no visual overheating damage to any of the electronics.

mr11-leds-1-a.jpg



Here are the guts of the 12 led version. The leds have flat tops, not rounded. It's pretty simple - a resistor, a cap, and 4 diodes. The resistor value was right on, at 60 ohms.

mr11-leds-2-a.jpg


One side of the single led version - there's a PT4105 step-down LED driver, 5 1 amp Schottky barrier rectifiers, 1 cap, 1 coil, 2 chip resistors. The big heat sink is glued to the led assembly - when I tried to pop it off, it broke off the led leads - and there's a bit of thermal compound between it and the driver board.

mr11-leds-3-a.jpg


mr11-leds-4-a.jpg
 
I didn't order this one, as it's a narrow beam, which may have been my undoing - MR11-WLX1 single LED in a heat-sinked assembly
MR11-WLX1.jpg
I had bought a number of LED light bulbs from superbrightleds 3-4 years ago and the only ones I am still using are the E27-WLX1. The 1W Luxeons seem to last much better than the 5mm showerheads. Beam is not too even, bright center dropping off fairly drastically to the sides. Brightness is just insufficient to read comfortably. They are rated 24 & 21 lumens vs 60 for the MR11-WLX1.
They will be replaced once my latest order of Cree XRE based bulbs from eliteLED get here.

-

Couple of comments:
Stay away from 5mm LEDs. They are noticeably dimmer in 6 months, useless in a year under 24/7 usage. Do not have experience with SMDs but I am sticking to LEDs rated 1 watt or better.

You get what you pay for. The lower cost of superbrightleds & DX bulbs are due to overdriving a smaller # of LEDs or using outdated LEDs.
Superbrightleds has a 4 watt 1*SSC-P4 bulb vs 3*1 watt XRE from eliteLED. Feeding 1000 mA into a LED used 24/7 is pushing it especially in hot climates/weather. I feel more comfortable with 350 mA into each of 3 LEDs. One reason why I pay more at eliteLED.
DX is selling a 3*1W in this size range but the Luxeons & clone LEDs are only 1/2 as bright. I also do not trust the people who supply DX to properly use and buy correctly rated components.
 
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Those are cheap chiense stuff. Also dont try to say " i tested the same lights and..." because in china this happens:

There are tons of factories that make cases for led bulbs (or any other led products) and even more factories that use these cases for their products. Even if two bulbs look the same that doesnt mean the leds or the powersupply are the same.
 
I have never undestand why should put too many leds in the small cup, just to get it fit to some base. Drivers etc in small base, i think its just dont work.

With leds you can build any kind of fixture, and use the body of the fixture as a coolingarea...That SHOULD be the future with LEDs
 
I think many of these 5 mm LED's are overdriven too hard.
20 mA's is too much.

I have 4 led clusters made from blue LED's in my house running at 10 mA's for the last 4 years with no faillures and no loss of brightness.
These are running of 230 Volts 50 Hz (12h/day) and one of 24 V dc. (24/7).
 
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