Brand new eneloops in old charger! What now?

[ieslei]

Hi guys, I hve this question thats killing me. So...there it goes, I hve this duracell 1hour charger that i bought in a trip to USA. I heard that 1 hour it`s too damn fast to charge my batteries, so I want to try this:
This charger has two options which are selected by a switch.
-NiCD Output
1.4v DC 1A(4AA)

-or NiMH Output
1.4v DC 2A(4AA)
---------------------------
So I was wondering if I could use the NiCD option to hve a slower charge on my eneloops, just to make them last more! CAND I DO IT???????????:huh:

PS: I`ve saved lots of money to buy these eneloops, here in brazil they are very expensive! So there`s not a chance of buying my ever dreamed MAHA or LA CROSSE chargers!



Thanks a lot everyone!!

 

[Ragiska]

Hi guys, I hve this question thats killing me. So...there it goes, I hve this duracell 1hour charger that i bought in a trip to USA. I heard that 1 hour it`s too damn fast to charge my batteries,

you heard wrong. 1 hour (a 1C charge) is the IDEAL and RECOMMENDED charge rate by the manufacturer for your cells.

 

[ieslei]

I hve a friend that`s a specialist in batteries, but i dont see him very often and he said that 1hour charger is the limit, and in a long therm my batteries will hve a higher self discharge rate... So if its possible to cut by half the amount of amps during the charge I`d like to....I`d like to make my batteries last long as possible, but i dont know if this option will harm my brand new little angels :thinking:

 

[core]

he said that 1hour charger is the limit

It is. That's why you don't want to charge faster than that.

If you want to charge at the slower 1A with your charger, that's fine too. Since it was designed for NiMH it will likely be using the exact same -deltaV termination algorithm on either setting.

 

[Ragiska]

1C isn't the limit either. it's actually closer to 4C if you're careful.

 

[ieslei]

Since it was designed for NiMH it will likely be using the exact same -deltaV termination algorithm on either setting.

The problem I guess is that It was not designed to charge NiMH with 1A....
It says on the charger label that i only have 2 option
1-NiCD Output
1.4v DC 1A(4AA)

2-or NiMH Output
1.4v DC 2A(4AA)

I was intended to choose option number 1 to charge NiMH slowes since its only 1A and the same current 1.4v.... So this DeltaV can damage my cells?

 

[ieslei]

1C isn't the limit either. it's actually closer to 4C if you're careful.

By Limit i meant what people advise to be carefull, higher than that they say my batteries will lose a lot of the life time... I heard of the 15mins energizer charger that should be extremely high, that would get my batteries all fried! ahaha My 1-hour charger heats my batteries up by too much already:thumbsdow

 

[Ragiska]

no, using a charger that charges too slow and misses the -dV signal can damage your cells. that's why it's important to use a quality smart charger than can reliably terminate, and this is much easier to do when charged at 1C.

a quality 1 hour charger will barely get your cells warm.

 

[ieslei]

I tryed to charge some old NiMH 2500 energizer batteries just to try and by this method in the NiCD(1A) mode the battery took almost twice the time than in the NiMH(2A) mode... So i think it didnt miss the Dv point. At least the green light went on...hehe

The NiCD batteries have a different DeltaV behavior compared to NiMH?

 

[core]

The NiCD batteries have a different DeltaV behavior compared to NiMH?

Yes, the -DeltaV is more pronounced with NiCD than NiMH, so older chargers could get away with being sloppy. So you can always use a NiMH charger to charge NiCD's but not the other way around.

 

[ieslei]

Seems like charge as NiCD its not safe then....Better charge in the NiMH mode even its faster?

 

[Ragiska]

faster is not always worse, slower is not always better. you will actually have a longer life with a quality charger which charges at 1C and terminates properly.

 

[ieslei]

Okay, I`ll use this duracell charger for my eneloops for a while. I had those duracell`s batteries that came with the charger and after 2 years they were all dead, now this energizers are going strong for 2 years now but seams they are also kind of tired... That I`ll only know in case I hve maha or la crosse chargers!

Thank for answering me that fast!!!
Really appreciated!
Hve a perfect thursday!!

Regards!:wave:

 

[TakeTheActive]

What a CONFUSING load of "Beating-Around-the-Bush / CYA / Gobble-de-Gook"! :shakehead

You're a Newbie, and I'm usually impatient with Newbies (since you should be able to find the answers to MOST of your "Newbie Questions" in the 'Batteries Included' STICKy or *MY* Sig Line LINKs). But I read this thread just before I left for my evening walk and now that I'm back and there are no new replies, I'll add my "Two Cents". :tinfoil:

1. First - it wouldn't hurt you to READ a bit from the STICKYs located at the top of the page. Then, you'd have a better foundation / knowledge of the terms that you're tossing about but obviously not understanding.
   (Urging a Newbie to SEARCH or READ sometimes get one a 'Bad Person / Shame on You' label from others which is why I usually just ignore these posts - "If You Have Nothing Good to Say... yada, yada, yada" aka "Move Along - These Aren't The Droids You're Looking For..." )
   .
2. Second, your posts are EXTREMELY LACKING in details! :huh2: Throw in a few Model Numbers, Capacity Ratings, Ages. I have LINKs for the specs sheets for DOZENs of NiCD/NiMH Chargers in my Sig Line LINKs - I'm looking at the Duracell CEF80, but I don't see a NiCD/NiMH switch.

__________________________________________________​

1. ...I hve this duracell 1hour charger that i bought in a trip to USA...

   What's the MODEL Number?
   
   

   ...I heard that 1 hour it`s too damn fast to charge my batteries...

   • From who?
   • What batteries (you really mean to say CELLS)?? (2000mAh AA Eneloops or 800mAh AAA Eneloops)
   • 1 Hour & FOUR AA @ 2A?!? (I want to read the SPEC SHEET on this baby
     
     )
   
   

   ...so I want to try this:
   This charger has two options which are selected by a switch.
   -NiCD Output
   1.4v DC 1A(4AA)
   
   -or NiMH Output
   1.4v DC 2A(4AA)
   ---------------------------
   So I was wondering if I could use the NiCD option to hve a slower charge on my eneloops, just to make them last more! CAND I DO IT???????????:huh:

   Sounds like a good plan! :thumbsup:
   
   CLICK on my Sig Line LINK and run PeAK's 'Experiment' : Is Your Charger Terminating Properly?
   (See, I'm feeling like a 'Broken Record' again since I already posted this EXACT SAME INFORMATION once already today! )
   
   

   ...PS: I`ve saved lots of money to buy these eneloops, here in brazil they are very expensive! So there`s not a chance of buying my ever dreamed MAHA or LA CROSSE chargers!

   I feel for ya... :mecry:
   
   See if you can find a Duracell CEF23 for a decent price (550mA - reportedly terminates well).
   .

2. I hve a friend that`s a specialist in batteries, but i dont see him very often and he said that 1hour charger is the limit...

   0.5C - 1.0C (aka 2 hours -> 1 hour) is the RECOMMENDATION! There's also a "200mA or NUTHIN'" crowd, some who claim to get 3200mAh+ from a 2000mAh cell, but that's another story... :wow:
   
   You want to use the LOWEST Charge Rate that TERMINATES PROPERLY and doesn't generate EXCESSIVE HEAT (120°F is the limit I use). But there's so SO MUCH MORE involved in choosing a Charge Rate *AND* a Charger (and HOW it terminates vs 'SOC') that REPEATING it over-and-over to each Newbie just doesn't make sense (to me) :tired:. You'll either get the 'abbreviated "Use 0.5C", the 'curt' "Look It Up!", or sometimes a COMPLETE answer. :huh:
   
   

   ...and in a long therm my batteries will hve a higher self discharge rate... So if its possible to cut by half the amount of amps during the charge I`d like to....I`d like to make my batteries last long as possible, but i dont know if this option will harm my brand new little angels :thinking:

   If you truly care so dearly for your "Brand New Little Angels" :kiss:, then INVEST the time and learn HOW to care for them. DON'T take some RANDOM poster's reply for gospel :tsk: - READ SEVERAL VIEWS / FAQs / Forums - and make YOUR OWN *EDUCATED* decision!
   .

3. The problem I guess is that It was not designed to charge NiMH with 1A....
   It says on the charger label that i only have 2 option
   1-NiCD Output
   1.4v DC 1A(4AA)
   
   2-or NiMH Output
   1.4v DC 2A(4AA)
   
   I was intended to choose option number 1 to charge NiMH slowes since its only 1A and the same current 1.4v.... So this DeltaV can damage my cells?

   Do you REALLY understand what you're asking here (re: DeltaV)?
   
   Here's a little story I composed in my head during my 'Evening Walk':
   Years ago, when someone invented NiCD Rechargeable cells, they needed a way to RE-Charge them - thus, the DUMB 0.1C (~50-150mA) charger. Folks had to MANUALLY note when the charge STARTED and when to end it. Time elapsed - how can we measure time? :thinking: A TIMER! So, out came NiCD Chargers with xx hour timers - plug an EMPTY cell in and xx hours later, it's done! :thumbsup: But, what happens if you plug in a HALF EMPTY cell? :huh: Well, it *STILL* charges for xx hours so it gets OVERDONE!
   
   My, oh, my - what CAN we do? :thinking: Someone then notices that when a NiCD cell is just about FULL, the voltage starts to REVERSE and drop a bit. 30mV seemed to be the average number so they started building chargers that DETECTED this 30mV drop (aka -DeltaV) and turn off (or switch to TRICKLE).
   
   More time passes and NiMH cells are invented. Plop one of them into a NiCD -DeltaV charger and IT COOKS! :thinking: Turns out that NiMH cells only drop around 5mV when they're hitting FULL. :scowl:​
   
   So, my young Padawan, it appears that a NiMH-Designed Charger can detect -DeltaV on a NiCD cell (maybe a bit early), but a NiCD-Designed Charger is too CRUDE to detect the smaller -DeltaV on a NiMH cell.
   
   
   .

4. I tryed to charge some old NiMH 2500 energizer batteries just to try and by this method in the NiCD(1A) mode the battery took almost twice the time than in the NiMH(2A) mode... So i think it didnt miss the Dv point. At least the green light went on...

   First of all, forget performing 'Experiments' and reaching SOLID conclusions with (*CRAPPY*) Energizer 2500mAh cells - use VIBRANT 2000mAh Eneloops.
   
   

   ...The NiCD batteries have a different DeltaV behavior compared to NiMH?

   Yep!
   .

5. Seems like charge as NiCD its not safe then...

   :huh2:
   .

6. ...Better charge in the NiMH mode even its faster?

   Better to UNDERSTAND what your charger is ACTUALLY doing and then choose the appropriate Charge Rate.

(BTW, composing THIS reply took AT LEAST an hour / STRIKE THAT -> TWO HOURS - maybe more. I hope that current, AND FUTURE, readers both enjoy it and learn from it. I'm no 'Expert' - just a 'Student' attempting to share my knowledge, sometimes in a light and humorous format. )

 

[Turbo DV8]

Does anybody know if there is a setting somewhere making it possible to hide a selected user's posts when displaying a thread? Seriously ...

 

[TorchBoy]

What a CONFUSING load of "Beating-Around-the-Bush / CYA / Gobble-de-Gook"! :shakehead

Ah, the irony. :thumbsup:

Anyway, you want Edit Ignore List under Settings & Options in your Control Panel. I used it once on a motoring forum but have never been tempted to use it on CPF even though CPF has over ten times as many members as that other forum. Everyone here seems to have at least something constructive to offer.

BTW Turbo, delete a few PMs.

 

[Turbo DV8]

Thank you, thank you, thank you! I can now fit nearly twice as many useful posts on some pages as before!

 

[ieslei]

OMG TakeTheActive! That was a hell of an answer!Thankx, I'm certainly a newbie and I'm just trying to learn somethings about batteries, haha "Beating-Around-the-Bush/ Gobble-de-Gook"??? What does it mean? I'm not familiar with that expression, I'm from brazil and my english is barely good. Well...since there was a lack of information about the my charger and batteries, here it goes.
Here is the charger info:
It was Bought in 2004
Brand: Duracell
Model: CEF80NC
UPC: 041333614878
picture of it: http://di1.shopping.com/images1/pi/...l+Duracell+1+Hour+Battery+Charger+CEF80NC.jpg

The eneloop batteries I recently bought are AA size.

I did some research about batteries but nothing comparing NiCD to NiMH charging methods,so when i did read my charger's label saying that the NiCD option would charge with a lower Amps I asked: Why not use that option to charge my NiMH?

Thanks for helping me to take an educated decision! haha Sorry if I misused the word cells, i tought i could use like that....And about the deltaV i did read an article saying what it was on the day after this post.

What I meant by saying: Seems like charge as NiCD its not safe then my conclusion was it wasnt safe to charge my eneloops with the switch turned to NiCD option(lets hope you undertood this time), hehe Also hope you are getting the picture of my situation.

PS: I havnt tryied charging my eneloops yet. So do you really think its a good plan to give it a shot?


Thanksss a lot DUUDE!!!!
You are lighting me up!
:twothumbs

 

[entoptics]

Did a clown barf on your post TTA. There's some pretty good info in there, but it's pretty hard to follow.
oo:

 

[JaguarDave-in-Oz]

Does anybody know if there is a setting somewhere making it possible to hide a selected user's posts when displaying a thread? Seriously ...

I'm with you mate.

I looked in the dictionary under "condescending" and then under "up oneself" and under "self important" and guess what - I found the same picture......

(yes Virginia, there are no pictures in dictionaries)