Brand Reliability

[Labrador72]

I'll give my take on the "Buy made in countryname" philosophy!

I don't see anything wrong with being a patriotic as a consumer/customer/buyer as long as it is done within reason! When the "Made in countryname" is synonym to good quality and higher price is justified by product quality or good service, it can make sense. Even the reasoning that you support local jobs can make sense in the age of globalization and job delocalization. If I can "buy European" I do so gladly but only if it is sensible. On the other hand, buying overpriced low-quality products only because of the marketing is "Made in countryname" is naive at best and, if done blindly, even utterly idiotic. Cross-border commerce, importing and exporting has always existed and there nothing wrong with it. If everybody followed this "Made in countryname" obsessively Maglite and Surefire would have never sold a single flashlight outside the United States! All Europeans should only buy Petzl, Silva, and Led Lenser (not even produced in Germany) and so on! If a product made in another country offers better quality, better features, at a competitive price there is no reason to buy an expensive, poorly-made product only because it's designed and or manufactured in-country. It would only lead manufacturers to think they can overprice their cheap products thanks to the "Made in countryname" hype and still make a profit out of it.

 

[kj2]

I'll give my take on the "Buy made in countryname" philosophy!

I don't see anything wrong with being a patriotic as a consumer/customer/buyer as long as it is done within reason! When the "Made in countryname" is synonym to good quality and higher price is justified by product quality or good service, it can make sense. Even the reasoning that you support local jobs can make sense in the age of globalization and job delocalization. If I can "buy European" I do so gladly but only if it is sensible. On the other hand, buying overpriced low-quality products only because of the marketing is "Made in countryname" is naive at best and, if done blindly, even utterly idiotic. Cross-border commerce, importing and exporting has always existed and there nothing wrong with it. If everybody followed this "Made in countryname" obsessively Maglite and Surefire would have never sold a single flashlight outside the United States! All Europeans should only buy Petzl, Silva, and Led Lenser (not even produced in Germany) and so on! If a product made in another country offers better quality, better features, at a competitive price there is no reason to buy an expensive, poorly-made product only because it's designed and or manufactured in-country. It would only lead manufacturers to think they can overprice their cheap products thanks to the "Made in countryname" hype and still make a profit out of it.

+1 :)

 

[the.Mtn.Man]

Ah, yes, the old "reliability" question. No matter what brand anyone names, there will be at least two other people showing up to say, "But I had that brand, and I experienced multiple failures!"

I think any of the popular brands like Maglite, 4Sevens, Fenix, Surefire, HDS, Malkoff, etc. will prove to be sufficiently reliable for most people with the higher end brands (HDS, Surefire, Malkoff) able to withstand greater abuse under extreme conditions. Keep in mind that no light will ever be failure proof, and I think given the nature of the tool and its design (a small metal or plastic tube with physical connections and electronics inside), there is an upper limit to just how durable and reliable it can be.

 

[the.Mtn.Man]

i agree with "simpler the better". lesser parts, features and components, means theres less to go wrong.

Quality is more important than quantity. A simple system built with low-quality components will be more likely to fail than a complex system built with high-quality components. A computer, for instance, is an extremely complex system, but one built with high quality components can run for decades.

 

[JohnnyBravo]

I'm not aware of anything similar to JD Power & Associates for flashlights etc. One would probably just have to search the forums etc to see what the overall consensus is for "reliability." In my experience over the years, I'm finding Surefire and Maglite to be TOPS in reliability. Also, I bought a Surefire 9P around 1996 for about $70 and sold it this year for $60. I bought a Trustfire 3XML light for $66, and it failed after one drop onto my carpet at a height of about 15-18 inches. So much for "trusting" it to work! I had that light for less than 6 months. I've recently sold off many of my non US made lights. My current criteria for light purchases is: 1. USA company, made in USA. 2. USA company, made overseas. and 3. Chinese company, made in China. Just my personal preference, no disrespect to any company or country of manufacture...

 

[Phry]

My current criteria for light purchases is: 1. USA company, made in USA. 2. USA company, made overseas. and 3. Chinese company, made in China. Just my personal preference, no disrespect to any company or country of manufacture...

So if all the lights made in the USA were junk you would but them over a quality Chinese alternative?

 

[the.Mtn.Man]

So if all the lights made in the USA were junk you would but them over a quality Chinese alternative?

I guess it's a good thing for him that not all USA made lights are junk, so I'm going to say that his system probably works out pretty well in practice.

 

[BattleToads]

If you're new to high-end flashlights, I'd recommend starting with a Fenix AA/AAA light. They have several available, so get whichever one suits your needs. Personally, I have the e11 and love it. It's also very affordable.

 

[P_A_S_1]

In terms of overall flashlight reliability your going find recommendations here are based on personal experience and preference. Short of an online poll for specific make/models or production/failure rate information released from the manufacturer there is not much else to go on. I personally think the test of time is a very good indicator of reliability and those that base their recommendations based on long term use (years) as opposed short term (months) help paint a clearer picture of what is reliable. I have Maglites (C&D cells) and a SF that have seen almost twenty years of work use and short of looking worn they work very well. I also had an HDS that needed to be replaced after two years. Within the last year I've moved on to Malkoff products which I'm very happy with but I with less then a year of use I cannot personally comment on their reliability. Overall I would go with simple if reliability is your main criteria and skip the fancy electronics and favor mechanical switches over electronic ones. Good luck.

 

[JohnnyBravo]

Again, I'll repeat. I said "My" criteria, and "my personal preference." Besides, the original poster asked "What would be your ranking? Also, what are the non-Chinese brands?" I spoke of Surefire and Maglite, which are both California/USA companies. For what it's worth. I currently EDC a JetBeam RRT0 XML 6-7 days a week; I like its size (I use a 16340 IMR) and variable ring control. And my Surefire Fury dual mode clicky sits on my nightstand. But if my life depended on it, I'd go w/ the Surefire...

 

[run4jc]

I may regret it, but I'll jump in. Buying American is important to me - but the two I pick are based on quality, not the fact that they are American. And I'm excluding awesome customs such as McGizmo or Cool Fall

Malkoff first.
Surefire second.

There are some good Asian lights out there for sure. I've tortured a few of them myself, but I still find the Malkoff the best overall production light that I've used.

Threads like this start so simply and honestly yet seem to end up evoking emotion. Healthy, RESPECTFUL debate is valuable - everyone's opinion is valuable. Just sayin'...

For customs, McGizmo, Mac's, Cool Fall, Oveready/Moddoolar, Muyshondt, Milky come to mind.

 

[dss_777]

So if my aunt were a man, would he be my uncle?

Fixed that for you. Makes about as much sense as everything else you're saying...

For some of us, the preference for Surefire, or HDS, or Malkoff is about a focus on VALUE, not PRICE. I'm very willing to spend more money to get what I perceive as more value. That includes, but is not limited to reliability, durability, function, appearance, and who gets my dollars in their pockets.

And now that I know it pisses you off that Surefire is as successful as they are, I might just have to throw more money their way. Win! :D

 

[Phry]

And now that I know it pisses you off that Surefire is as successful as they are, I might just have to throw more money their way. Win! :D

Quick, that'll show me!

:clap:

 

[xevious]

These kinds of threads always seem to get heated and decay into a sling fest. Saying "buy American" and "avoid Chinese" hinges on stereotypes. You can get junk or quality from both nationalities.

Stating "brand reliability" unqualified is enormously imprecise. All of the more popular brands have produced good lights, while some have made more failures than others. Often those failures are from either producing a complex design that hasn't been thoroughly tested enough, or a certain price point attempted was too low that sacrificed build quality and/or materials.

The old adage of "you get what you pay for" is usually true, although sometimes "you get more for what you pay". And that's the real test of it--to find a light with most of the specifications and qualities you're looking for while staying below a certain price threshold.


Surefire may be overpriced when directly compared to the competition that delivers very similar specifications, but that's just comparing the front layer. You have to look underneath. Surefire also qualifies their lights by enormous amounts of testing. And you'll find that their build quality is usually superior to a lesser priced light that performs similarly. Surefire has a reputation to maintain... if their reliability starts to slide, they risk much. And that's why they're usually not early adopters (not the absolute latest emitters).

While Olight may not match the build quality of Surefire, in my experience it's a company that produces remarkably good quality lights for a fairly reasonable price (based on the models I've bought thus far). I've taken apart a couple of them and wasn't shocked or surprised. NiteCore has had a rather rapid upswing on brand recognition, having made a number of very durable and tough lights for the price. Would I trust them as much as Olight? I'm not so sure now, after seeing an EA8 tear down... looks can be sorely deceiving. I'm hoping this isn't an ongoing trend for the brand. But does it mean NiteCore should be avoided? No... they do make some very well received models. So, it'll be more up to the long term.


Anyway, if reliability is a top most concern and Surefire doesn't deliver the right model design for an acceptable price, it's probably best to go the drop-in route. Get a good solid P60 style body and install a Malkoff or Oveready drop-in. No frills and more money compared to fully complete lights, but you can bet on them lasting longer and being more trustworthy.

 

[bluemax_1]

I've been a flashaholic for several decades now.

Have had many Maglites, from Solitaires and MiniMags, to the 6-D 'club' over the years. Decent lights, incan bulbs suck. Stopped buying/carrying MagLites once viable LEDs came out (because MagLite was slow to make the move to LED).

Still have a Surefire that's ~10 years old. It was my EDC and in my pocket for a few years. Worn, but still works. LED is much dimmer than current options. Good light, but yes, the price was significantly higher for what I got, and SF don't appear too eager in updating their emitter choices often, which is why I haven't bought one in years.

The SF was replaced with a Fenix L2D head with a Luxeon Rebel emitter (the R100 model) on an L1D 1xAA body. Carried THIS in my pocket for several years until last year, when it was replaced by the Quark QPA-G2 with the new XP-G2 emitter. The Fenix is still working and is now being carried by a friend I sold it to. Once again, since it was carried in a pocket with keys and a SAK XLT, the anodizing was worn, but the light works fine and has never failed me, and is now working fine for my friend.

Don't see any problems with the Quark QPA-G2. Been running it on a 14500 and for a light this small, it has pretty impressive output. Aside from battery drainage, it failed to turn on once. The QPA has a screw down ring to hold the pocket clip. I don't use the clip so I removed it. As it turns out, this ring can loosen and unscrew and if it unscrews enough, can prevent the tailcap from being tightened enough to avoid anodized tailcap lockout. I realized the problem quickly, and tighteend the ring, then the tailcap and the light turned on properly. Judicious application of locktite will avoid further occurrences.

Have a ZL SC80, but the lack of any change in friction makes me question the waterproofing O-rings on this light. Otherwise, it appears to be quite a nice light.

Also have an Olight M22 which I just got and have been using for work. This light's been working great, but I've only had it for a few weeks. The build quality on the light appears to be excellent though.

Also have the Nitecore TM26. Been using that since I got it and it's a very impressive multipurpose light. Build quality appears to be very good. LOTS of light from something this size.

The ONLY lights I've had fail were the cheap $5-$10 no-name Chinese made lights (and incan Maglites where the bulb would burn out after a while, or break if the light was dropped. Their nice round 'super-rolling' design didn't help the droppage).


Max

 

[holylight]

I feel this thread is more of a choice. Not all people have equal status. A millionaire may find a flashlight casing make of diamond worth buying while others are contented with any flashlight. Of course there are many who support their brands and it is not wrong as it holds sentimental value. Peace and out.

 

[JohnnyBravo]

Canuck21 (OP), you've been quiet for a couple of days. Have you anything to say/add?

 

[Novan3]

Surefire should spend less time and money on advertising, marketing and suing other companies and concentrate on trying to keep up, which they are failing to do. Badly.

They should stop making high production value youtube videos on lights they never or very, very slowly release.

 

[run4jc]

I've been interested in flashlights for awhile but am still clueless regarding reliability as I don't own many flashlights to have enough experience on different brands. So which brands are considered the top tier in reliability? I've read that EagleTec is above Fenix? What would be your ranking? Also, what are the non-Chinese brands?

Lo

Surefire will send you a cheap part when it breaks because they had already charged you ten times the cost when you bought the thing!

Your assessment of reliability is nonsense.

Top tier "Chinese" lights? What?
Do you mean manufactured in China? If so I assume you think Apple products are "Chinese"?
Designed in China?
Designed BY a Chinese person?

Such USA buy American mentality.

Are Zebralight Chinese?

Do you know one of the designers at Surefire is Chinese?

Do you know the LED's and other parts IN your precious Surefire are made in China?

You said that if you want a light that will always work buy Surefire then told us how you have had Surefire lights fail!

Surefire should spend less time and money on advertising, marketing and suing other companies and concentrate on trying to keep up, which they are failing to do. Badly.

You, Phry, exhibit all of the tendencies of the dreaded "troll." You seem intent on bashing other's posts and bashing American (mainly Surefire) lights - all the OP asked was:

"So which brands are considered the top tier in reliability? I've read that EagleTec is above Fenix? What would be your ranking? Also, what are the non-Chinese brands?"

I don't see where the OP requested that anyone challenge any of the recommendations. If you want to "bash" any member or manufacturer and have concrete examples of why, then maybe you should start your own "jeers" thread.

Of course, I'm sure you'll bash me, too, but that's fine. Maybe we'll both get a time out.

 

[Treeguy]

They should stop making high production value youtube videos on lights they never or very, very slowly release.

Porn for light lovers.

Keeps us interested. :grin2: