Breathable waterproof jackets

[js]

Well I can say with experience that gore-tex is not all it's cracked up to be, infact it's a total con, and it won't keep you warm, thats not its job. In lab conditions it's great, it will resist "x" columns of water and vent "y" amount of vapour, but get it dirty, wash it one too many times, rip it, run hot, go too near a fire or just happen to be in a humid atmosphere and you might as well be wearing bin bags.

Now I'm going to be controversial, if you want a nice, comfy, highly breathable jacket that's easily maintained, waterproof, will last you a lifetime and gets better the more you wear it. Plus it won't melt to your skin in a fire, you can stitch it yourself and it will still work, it's naturally windproof, so no need for extra layers, it's not manufactured with nasty chemicals and most importantly it will be the comfiest jacket you ever owned, and it will become more comfy the older it gets. Buy a cotton Ventile jacket, if you happen to want to go out when it's consistently pissin down buy a double layer cotton Ventile I can guarantee that it's 100% waterproof. (edit forgot to add that it won't delaminate, deteriorate, or the seems fail, it's a natural fabric and the weave and type of cotton makes it permanently waterproof)

Like others have mentioned you need to wash "your waterproof" without detergents, follow manufacturers recomendations. Well if you wash anything with, for example grangers waterproof, you'll get a DWR coating on it, it might be your pyjama's or your outdoor coat. If you look after your garments then they will all bead water and shed it.

Basically don't believe cotton is death, infact ventile is the most popular material for polar expeditionist as a shell, granted it's not very wet at the poles, but it is cold and windy

SolarFlare,

Ventile cotton! How neat! My brother told me about that stuff. I'm thrilled to find someone who actually has experience with it.

What garments do you own? links?

And where did you read about the polar expeditionists wearing ventile shells? I'd love to hear more!

In any case, when I was talking about cotton being bad, I was NOT refering to ventile, but rather a cotton T-shirt or underwear. Rather a different beast, don't you think?

Ventile is something else entirely! So, tell us more. Tell us a lot more.

 

[Windscale]

SolarFlare,

Ventile cotton! How neat! My brother told me about that stuff. I'm thrilled to find someone who actually has experience with it.

What garments do you own? links?

And where did you read about the polar expeditionists wearing ventile shells? I'd love to hear more!

In any case, when I was talking about cotton being bad, I was NOT refering to ventile, but rather a cotton T-shirt or underwear. Rather a different beast, don't you think?

Ventile is something else entirely! So, tell us more. Tell us a lot more.

There is plenty to read about in this site:

http://www.ventile.co.uk/

The one I have is the Barbour Endurance (the people famous for making British wax jackets). I bought it in the Lake District in England. It was the last one left, it fitted and it was 50% off. I was lucky then. I think Barbour has since then discontinued this line, sadly.

I also have a ventile photographer's waistcoat made by Billingham (the camera bag people). Also discontinued I think.

The Drizabone is also a great coat. It would have been better if they designed a hood for it.

 

[SolarFlare]

SolarFlare,

Ventile cotton! How neat! My brother told me about that stuff. I'm thrilled to find someone who actually has experience with it.

What garments do you own? links?

And where did you read about the polar expeditionists wearing ventile shells? I'd love to hear more!

In any case, when I was talking about cotton being bad, I was NOT refering to ventile, but rather a cotton T-shirt or underwear. Rather a different beast, don't you think?

Ventile is something else entirely! So, tell us more. Tell us a lot more.

Hi JS, the link Windscale posted gives a bit of history and uses of ventile. Unfortunately I can only think of Orvis that sells it in the US. I have garments from West_Winds & Hilltrek. Both are smocks but they sell a variety of jackets and made to measure gear too. I think Snowsled in particular are proud of their ventile polar equipment, as mentioned by cy earlier. Here's a few extracts from their site:-

"The Ventile® was robust, relatively lightweight and of high quality. The strong Antarctic light caused slight bleaching but no apparent weakening of the material. Its great toughness was extremely well suited to our sort of expedition (particularly when working with the dogs! ) and is to be highly recommended." An extract from the test report from the 90° South Polar Expedition of the Antarctic Foundation, Oslo.

Following its recognition as an eminently suitable cold weather fabric, the British Antarctic Survey Team have outer garments and tents made from Ventile.

Sir Ranulph Fiennes and Dr Mike Stroud wore Ventile® garments from Snowsled during their unsupported crossing of the Antarctic in 1993.

"The Ventile fabric which you so kindly supplied to the expedition gave absolutely invaluable service." Chris Bonnington after his historic Annapurna South Face Expedition.

Edit:- Just thought of a few more places, country innovations make and sell ventile garments, and if you have any army surplus stores, the British SAS windproof smock is made from ventile too, be careful not to pick up a civilian version as they are not ventile, but you occassionally see the real deal listed on ebay or like I said in surplus shops.

 

[Windscale]

SolarFlare,

The Ventile website used to contain a link listing many manufacturers. But sadly most of these have discontinued ventile and the link has been deleted. I think you have probably listed all the places where ventile is still available.

This is very sad. I think ventile's failure was due largely to lack of advertising, weight and price.

I have been to quite a few places with my ventile jacket and I hope this jacket will remain functional for many years to come. Although the jacket is comparatively heavier than a, say, Goretex one, but it is equal to, or better than, a Goretex plus an inner layer when it comes to keeping warm. I bought mine in 1995 and the full price was GBP 350 in the Barbour shop in Harrod's. I don't think I would have bought it at that price. The 50% discount I got was a real bargain. Probably I won't have to think of another heavy duty waterproof and breathable jacket the rest of my life.

I am glad that the subject of ventile has been raised here. Very few people know about it these days. Almost everytime people ask me about the fabric of my jacket and I told them "Ventile" and I will most frequently get another question, namely, "is that a kind of Goretex?" This is not right. Do forgive me for being nostalgic. Another BRITISH thing is disappearing.

 

[SolarFlare]

Here's a dude wearing his nice ventile smock in the antarctic .

Here's a page with a bit more info.

Slioch is another supplier of garments I just recalled and Bison bushcraft do a smock based on the military battle dress smock.

Windscale, don't Barbour offer a lifetime repair service? It would be interesting to find out what they would do with your Endurance. I always fancied one of those back in the 90's, but as you have stated they were a bit on the pricey side.

 

[Windscale]

Windscale, don't Barbour offer a lifetime repair service? It would be interesting to find out what they would do with your Endurance. I always fancied one of those back in the 90's, but as you have stated they were a bit on the pricey side.

Barbour do offer a lifetime repair service. But so far there is nothing to repair. The whole jacket was made to very high standards with double stitching and rolled-up seams and all that. It is still as strong as new after all these years. Quality came with a price. In my case at 50% of the price!

 

[monkeyboy]

I have 2 Goretex jackets and neither of them live up to their marketing hype. If you run up a hill, you will get soaked in sweat. If you stay out in the rain for several hours, the water will penetrate eventually. I actually find that my 10 year old Goretex jacket performs better in this respect than my newer goretex XCR.

I've heard that Paramo jackets are very good. Much more breathable than Gore-tex and don't have that plasticky feel to them. I haven't tried one yet though.

 

[jeep44]

Check out Filson.com for their line of US-made waxed cotton "Tin Cloth" jackets . I have three of them-an unlined shelter cloth jacket ,a medium-weight lined "klondike" jacket, and the heavy Field jacket with the zip-in wool liner.
Barbour makes good stuff,too,but like Filson, none of it is cheap. I just got the Barbour "International"-maybe the most enduringly stylish motorcycle jacket ever made.

 

[Windscale]

I have 2 Goretex jackets and neither of them live up to their marketing hype. If you run up a hill, you will get soaked in sweat. If you stay out in the rain for several hours, the water will penetrate eventually. I actually find that my 10 year old Goretex jacket performs better in this respect than my newer goretex XCR.

I've heard that Paramo jackets are very good. Much more breathable than Gore-tex and don't have that plasticky feel to them. I haven't tried one yet though.

Being in Scotland you will need the best protection available. I have also been through one or two Goretex and that's why I have gone back to Ventile and wax long ago despite the fact that they are heavier. The lighter the Goretex the more likely you are to get in trouble. The older 3-layer Goretex was the best but these are not light and quite hard and uncomfortable and, what is worst, they fail. I have also been interested in Paramo. But as I have already got a few jackets it may be sometime before I tried anything else. If you eventually got round to trying them, please post your experience here.

 

[js]

Filson. Yeah. At one time I was big into Filson. For a decade (or longer, actually), I lived--and I mean LIVED in my Filson double Mac Cruiser wool jacket. I also bought one of their Tin Cloth hats and another waxed cotton type (not Tin Cloth, but lighter--like Barbour) jackets.

Tin Cloth is pretty amazing stuff, but it IS heavy. Very heavy. But also very rugged. VERY rugged. I went for the lighter weight waxed cotton jacket for that reason--lighter, more flexible, etc. But, overall I was disappointed with it in terms of breathability. I imagine Barbour jackets are better.

As for the Double Mac, the main problem with that was the cut of the jacket. I swear Filson cuts them for people with serious pot bellies! In order for me to get a jacket that fit me at the shoulder and neck, I had to suffer through a lot of extra fabric at the stomach and waist, and that really hurt the wind resistance (such as it is for wool) and heat retention of the jacket.

Don't get me wrong! I love my Filson jacket. But honestly, my Patagonia R3 fleece is warmer than my Filson double mac, at about 1/10th the weight, and it's much more flexibe and breathable.

Anyway . . .

Windscale,

Thanks! And I think I'll drop in on your UK thread maybe. I'm a big fan of certain UK stuff, like, oh, say Kate Beckinsale and Rachel Stevens, for example.

 

[monkeyboy]

I finally got round to buying a Paramo jacket so thought I'd bring up this old thread again. I got the Alta II hill walking jacket and my first impressions are excellent. It's very lightweight, warm and breathable. I've been on a few outings with it but haven't yet had a chance to test out the waterproofness. It always rains in Scotland but never when you want it to. The waterproofing of the jacket does not depend on a membrane like Goretex which makes the fabric much more breathable. You do have to use Nikwax waterproofing wash from time to time though to maintain waterproofness. It does work, I've read reviews about people walking all day in the pouring rain and not getting wet on the inside. There's also a mountain rescue team that uses Paramo. Another benefit of not using a membrane is that the jacket can be sewn up if ripped and still maintain waterproofness. Also, the fabric feels softer and less plastic like.

Based on my limited experience and reviews I have read, I can definitely recommend this over Gore-tex. It's too warm for hot climates though. Probably better off with something like Gore-tex paclite for that.

Windscale, I think you would like Paramo. Think of it as the modern equilvalent of a waxed cotton jacket.