CE and UL logos on Li-Ion cells

[Black Rose]

I was looking at the images of the Trustfire "true" 2400 mAh 18650 cells on DX (sku 20392) and noticed that they have the CE and UL logos on the cell wrappers.

I'm new to Li-Ion cells but have seen enough images to know that this is new and different.

I highly doubt that these cells were actually tested by the respective agencies considering they are $10 for a pair of them.

Can companies simply slap those logos on items if they meet certain safety standards? I was under the impression products had to actually be tested in order to gain those credentials.

 

[mdocod]

Oops... How did those letter accidentally get on there?

They are chinese symbols that stand for something else, that happen to by coincidence look like UL and CE english letters...

I'd guess that would be one of many possible arguments that would be made if we had any jurisdiction to control product safety over there.

My feeling is that they just slapped em on there, no testing or approval was really done.

In order for a LiCo cell to attain the UL logo, not only does it have to pass numerous rigorous abusive tests, which a trust-fire may in fact be capable of passing (I have no way to prove or disprove this), but it also must be installed in a consumer device in accordance with the cell manufactures safety requirements. Only the final implementation of the LiCo cell can actually be granted a UL "logo." No bare cell, even if protected, could meet the requirements currently in place.

-Eric

PS [edit in]

was just doing a little reading about the CE certification. This one can be judged by the maker and slapped on just about any product with very little to no third party involvement.

 

[MattK]

UL - Underwriters Laboratory is a private testing agency with a widely respect certification 'seal.' UL testing isn't typically required it's something mfr's do to ensure that their product is safe and have it warranted as safe by an external agency; ultimately it's about limiting liability though due dilligence. ETL is very similar to UL and you'll see ETL marks on some products as well. UL and ETL testing is pretty terrifyingly expensive in my experience - the ETL testing alone on our L35 was close to $10K.

CE is a mandatory mark for products to be sold within the European community. From wiki: ' The CE marking certifies that a product has met EU consumer safety, health or environmental requirements.'

Manufacturers do not have to have independent testing for CE - it can simply be declared via a 'declaration of conformity.'

Very few batteries are UL tested/listed -even from major brands. I suspect that mdocod is right that bare li-ion cells could not pass certification.

Currently, in order to be shipable by non-hazmat means, all lithium and li-ion cells/packs are required to pass UN 38.3 Tests 1-8:
T1: Altitude Simulation
T2: Thermal
T3: Vibration
T4: Shock
T5: External Short Circuit
T6: Impact
T7: Overcharge
T8: Forced Discharge

38.3 T1-T8 testing is $1500-4000 per cell/pack depending on where it's done and the particulars of the cell/pack.

 

[LEDninja]

UL (and CSA and ETL and MET) approvals can be done 2 ways - special approval in which a single item is approved or type approval in which the design and manufacturing is approved.

One way to check for type approval is to note the file# (it should be below the UL symbol) and look that file up on the UL website.

Looking up the file for information is important especially in household bulbs as the bulb may be approved only for general indoor use and not for outdoor use or for enclosed fittings (including in-ceiling fixtures).

EDIT
Trustfire may not have to organize the UL testing. If the original manufacturer (say Sony or LG) obtained the UL listing Trustfire is allowed to add the symbol to their wrapper. This creates a messy problem when trying to track the approvals.

 

[mdocod]

EDIT
Trustfire may not have to organize the UL testing. If the original manufacturer (say Sony or LG) obtained the UL listing Trustfire is allowed to add the symbol to their wrapper. This creates a messy problem when trying to track the approvals.

A bare Sony, LG, Panasonic, or any other quality brand LiCo cell will not bear a UL certification until the final installation has been considered/judged/certified. The cell becomes a working part of a system that can be certified as a whole, but can not be certified individually as the cell requires external electronics in order to meet all manufacture guidelines for safe use.

 

[snakebite]

i would suspect any ul,csa,ce,fcc type marks on cheap imported goods of being forged.
i see it all too often in pc power supplies and other electronics.
i see stuff with these forged marks that i would not plug in and turn my back on.
whats worse is the ul "e" number on some of this stuff is also forged.
example is a "gutless wonder" power supply with the ul e number from cwt.
i had never seen the design before and i had seen hundreds of cwt built units due to replacing exploded fuhjyyu caps.
i would not trust anything line powered or lithium ion based from dx for sure.

 

[Black Rose]

I think I may need glasses

When I was doing some tests with the Yoho-122 charger, I noticed that AW's protected 17670 cells have the CE and UL logos on them.
I never noticed the logos when I first got the cells :candle:

BTW, today I received the TrustFire 18650 cells I mentioned in post #1.
There are no numbers associated with the UL logo.

 

[mdocod]

wow, I never noticed the UL listing on the AW cells before... I'm VERY curious about that...

if it's real that would be awesome, if it's a fake, wow...

 

[Black Rose]

I also have AW 16340 and 18650 cells; no CE or UL logos on them.

 

[mdocod]

Just looked at a few more, seems that some AWs have it and others don't, I have some 18650s also that do not, while my older black label protected 16340s do have it...

 

[Jay T]

My older black AWs have a UL marking, my newer ones do not.

No issue number or other UL information, just a UL in a circle.

 

[kromeke]

I have been curious about AW's cells as well. I purchased one a couple of years ago, it has been a good battery for me, with no problems, but I wondered if the UL logo on it was legit. I'm glad I'm not the only one who is curious. The charger thread re: the UL logo is what prompted me to search for Li-ion cells and their labeling. As a result, I found this thread.

 

[mdocod]

There is an on-going investigation into the appearance of the UL logo on the AW brand cells, I'm not sure if any conclusions will ever be made but we'll see...

 

[mfm]

was just doing a little reading about the CE certification. This one can be judged by the maker and slapped on just about any product with very little to no third party involvement.

The manufacturer will still have to provide proof (documents, test records) of the conformity testing done if asked to. Otherwise bad things will happen.

So if you are an european company that are going to import CE marked products from China and sell, you will certainly make sure to demand the test records from the chinese company, otherwise you will yourself be in trouble.

One way to check for type approval is to note the file# (it should be below the UL symbol) and look that file up on the UL website.

Most of these fake UL symbols are just the UL mark without any number.

 

[MattK]

For CE it is possible to do a 'Declaration of Conformity,' aka a 'Self Declaration' so no testing is required - just be sure you're actually conforming.

Most UL marks do not provide the UL file number. You can ask the mfr/distributor for it or try to look it up using Mfr name on the UL site.

We do get involved with this stuff a bit so I've been forced to become somewhat versed in how these things work. We're about to have UL Recognized component status for our Titanium Innovations CR123A's so I've been jumping through those hoops recently. On some of our HID's and chargers we do a CE declaration and do formal testing and marks with ETL (because it costs like 1/4 the cost of UL).

Most batteries are NOT UL certified. Not even the big brands. At most they are genrally 'UL recognized components,' (that backwards RU mark) thus it is very rare that the UL mark would BELONG on a battery. UL is not required for Lithium primary & secondary batteries but UN 38.3 T1-T8 testing is required.