Confused: Need 'Protected' or is Panasonic NCR18650 OK?

Bolster

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Re: Confused: Need 'Protected' 18650 if Light Cuts at 2.8V?

VOM, check.

Here's an interesting attribute I found by reading Panasonic's tech sheets, regarding the unprotected NCR18650:

"Increasing energy density raises the risk of overheating and igniting due to short-circuiting. Panasonic employs a heat resistance layer technology to improve the safety of LiIon batteries significantly. This heat resistance layer consists of an insulating metal oxide on the surface of the electrodes which leads the battery not to overheat even if a short-circuit occurs."

Well! If that's true, now I can check off:

- unlikely to overcharge with new manufacture Pila;
- unlikely to over-discharge with built in H60 circuitry (says Zebralight);
- no reverse charging due to one-cell light;
- reverse polarity protection built into the H60 (says Zebralight);
- unlikely to V.W.F. if short circuited (says Panasonic).


I'm feeling a little better about going unprotected now. I think I have most of the safety bases covered.

So to summarize what I've learned here:

- Don't use on lowest modes when battery is getting empty, or check occasionally that it still fires in high modes.
- Any indication of low battery, stop and recharge right away.
- Use quality charger (current manufacture Pila a good choice)
- Feel the cell for overheating while charging.
- Attend to the cells while charging, no "charging on their own next to where the gasoline is stored."
- Test the cell with VOM when charged, look for 4.2V or less.
- Triple-check the battery's going in the correct way on reinsertion. (EDIT: Will do this anyway, but have since learned the flashlight has reverse polarity protection built in.)
- Won't use my unprotecteds in series, one at a time in single cell lights only.
- Keep unused cells above 3.8V during storage.


How am I doing as a student? Thanks for all your help.
 
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Brian10962001

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Re: Confused: Need 'Protected' 18650 if Light Cuts at 2.8V?

Bolster, I really don't want to give you false confidence and I would feel bad if you got hurt/property damage taking my advice, but I'm still going to share my story with Panasonic cells. My girlfriend and her sister both bought Dell laptops around 2003/2004. My girlfriends Dell had the notorious "exploding battery" that would get so hot you could't have it on your lap. Her sister's battery just went bad from abuse/neglect.

I repaired the sisters laptop a couple months back and purchased her a new battery. The old battery wouldn't charge at all, it would throw up the blinking "battery failure" light whenever it was plugged up. I popped it open and inside were the Panasonic cells you speak of.

I left these sit these sit for a few weeks then out of curiosity I checked them with a volt meter. All of them were well below 2.7 volts, but one of them was at .9 volts. I ended up borrowing an 18650 cheapo cradle charger from a friend of mine, plugged it into an extension cord, and charged them in a frying pan. I honestly expected them to just explode in a firey deathly catastrophy. Every single cell charged right up, never got hot, never hurt a thing. I charged all of these up to a "too high" 4.25 volts and have been using them since. I upgraded from a cheapo cradle trickle charger to a modded Samsung phone charger that does the proper charging protocol for LiIon's.

My advice is to not be scared, just take precautions ")

 
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Microa

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Re: Confused: Need 'Protected' 18650 if Light Cuts at 2.8V?

As my understanding, the Panasonic NCR-series was introduced in early 2010. You are talking an apple for an orange.
 

Bolster

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Re: Confused: Need 'Protected' 18650 if Light Cuts at 2.8V?

Thanks for the report, Brian. The H60 headlamp was introduced early 2009, if I recall, and Zebralight states that the NCR18650 Panasonics are the battery they used in their "manufacturing, testing, QC, etc." On the other hand, the spec sheet I have for NCR18650s is dated February 2010.

Either way, I think the point of the story remains the same: It appears the Panasonic makes a good quality cell.

Regarding being careful...I'll do my best...is there anything I should be doing above and beyond the bottom (purple) list I made in post #21?
 
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jirik_cz

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Re: Confused: Need 'Protected' 18650 if Light Cuts at 2.8V?

As my understanding, the Panasonic NCR-series was introduced in early 2010. You are talking an apple for an orange.

Panasonic NCR18650 series was introduced in 2006. Panasonic NCR18650A with 3100mAh capacity has been in mass production since December 2009. I own some NCR18650 2900mAh cells since march 2009 and they are still as good as new. I accidentally discharged one of them to 0.9V and it didn't take any damage. These cells are just superb...
 
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Bolster

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Re: Confused: Need 'Protected' 18650 if Light Cuts at 2.8V?

Where can you find Panasonic NCR18650A batteries?
G27

Hong Kong via eBay. $11.50 each, shipping included. Have not received them yet, just ordered a couple days ago.

Happy to learn about the 3100 mAh (the NCR18650A), have not found these for sale.
 
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Microa

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Re: Confused: Need 'Protected' 18650 if Light Cuts at 2.8V?

I hope you bought the genuine and brand new one. Look at their advertising photo, there are four wielding spots on the positive contact. A brand new battery don't have these.
 

Bolster

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Re: Confused: Need 'Protected' 18650 if Light Cuts at 2.8V?

Don't know. Looked through the last 1,000 of his feedback (of 13,804) and found one wrong-item-shipped complaint that was resolved, and one complaint he was out of stock. I'm not seeing people complaining of bait-and-switch or remanufactured cells. When the cells arrive I'll take a photo for examination by the forum. Thanks for the alert.

Can anyone verify Microa's statement?
 
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psychbeat

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Re: Confused: Need 'Protected' 18650 if Light Cuts at 2.8V?

hmm yeah
I was thinking of buying some of those too
but was going to start a thread asking which
vendor people were using for the NCRs

I may just buy more AWs but was feeling kinda cheap...
 

Bolster

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Re: Confused: Need 'Protected' 18650 if Light Cuts at 2.8V?

May as well wait till I get mine and can give a report.
 

hazna

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Re: Confused: Need 'Protected' 18650 if Light Cuts at 2.8V?

Don't know. Looked through the last 1,000 of his feedback (of 13,804) and found one wrong-item-shipped complaint that was resolved, and one complaint he was out of stock. I'm not seeing people complaining of bait-and-switch or remanufactured cells. When the cells arrive I'll take a photo for examination by the forum. Thanks for the alert.

Can anyone verify Microa's statement?

i don't know how this turned out but one person seemed to have some issues with hkequipment panasonic 18650:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-6-*-18650-2900-mah-batteries-are-they-faulty
 

Bolster

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Re: Confused: Need 'Protected' 18650 if Light Cuts at 2.8V?

Interesting thread here by a former ebay seller of these cells. I see they recommend 5 charge/discharge cycles before they're ready for max capacity, which was more-or-less the same conclusion arrived at by the link Hazna gave us.
 
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hazna

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Microa

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Re: Confused: Need 'Protected' 18650 if Light Cuts at 2.8V?

I don't have an offical data sheet. The data showed by the seller is terminated at 4.2V. Panasonic is rather conservative, may be terminated at 4.3V with no damage.
 

Bolster

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Re: Confused: Need 'Protected' 18650 if Light Cuts at 2.8V?

I hope you bought the genuine and brand new one. Look at their advertising photo, there are four wielding spots on the positive contact. A brand new battery don't have these.

My eBay via HK Panasonic cells arrived today, well packaged, no "welding spots." They look like the real deal as shown toward the bottom here. Arrived at 3.66 V each. Currently charging on Pila charger.

headlamp-panasonic-18650.jpg


There's a dot matrix code written at the bottom of the cells. Might be a manufacturing date if I knew how to decode it.
 
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moderator007

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Re: Confused: Need 'Protected' 18650 if Light Cuts at 2.8V?

Looks like the real deal to me to.Want know for sure until you test them. Could you run a few capacity test and report back. I'm interested in purchasing some of these also.
 

Bolster

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Re: Confused: Need 'Protected' 18650 if Light Cuts at 2.8V?

When you guys said "warm, not hot, during charging" how warm is warm? I can leave my hands on them for 5- 6 seconds, but then my fingers tell me it's time to go.
 
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